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    • Emma300
    • By Emma300 3rd Dec 17, 10:19 PM
    • 5Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Emma300
    Universal credit instead of tax credits
    • #1
    • 3rd Dec 17, 10:19 PM
    Universal credit instead of tax credits 3rd Dec 17 at 10:19 PM
    Hi
    Can anyone give me some advice please?
    Me and partner have just moved in together. We have never lived together before and we donít claim any help in benefits at the moment. My partner works full time self employed and I am on maternity leave having recently had a baby. As my partner is on a low income, I wanted to try to claim tax credits as he has no money left once the rent and bills have been paid for and my maternity money is going to be stopping soon.
    However, as universal credit is now in our area we have been told to claim that instead as tax credits are no longer available to us. I have therefore started making an online claim for universal credit and have to make a joint claim.
    However on completing the claim it states that my partner must attend the job centre with me for an interview and that he must agree to be looking for work
    Heís not going to be able to attend the job centre with me as he works full time, does anyone know if we can still claim if he does not attend the job centre? Very soon I am going to have no money to live on apart from the £80 child benefit a month as my partner canít afford to give me any money get so I am worrying a bit. Any advice at all about this would be much appreciated.
    Thanks
Page 1
    • Ames
    • By Ames 3rd Dec 17, 10:37 PM
    • 16,585 Posts
    • 29,021 Thanks
    Ames
    • #2
    • 3rd Dec 17, 10:37 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Dec 17, 10:37 PM
    If he's earning less than he would in a full time minimum wage job then yes he has to attend the job centre and look for work to take him up to that level of income.

    I'm not sure how you working would affect the calculations, if you look at entitled to.com (there shouldn't be a gap there, I can't make autocorrect take it out) and put different scenarios in it'll show you.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.

    Reading the alphabet in 2017. 21/100
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    • Emma300
    • By Emma300 3rd Dec 17, 10:53 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Emma300
    • #3
    • 3rd Dec 17, 10:53 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Dec 17, 10:53 PM
    Ok thank you

    He is earning above minimum wage but as heís self employed most of his wage goes on fuel to get to work and things he needs for his job tools etc. And once the bills and rent is paid he has nothing left. I have no job to go back to but I would work if I could get help with childcare costs but all that now comes under universal credit as well which we may not be able to get if he canít come to the job centre with me and they think he is earning enough to support us.

    Thanks for your help.
    • Ames
    • By Ames 3rd Dec 17, 11:12 PM
    • 16,585 Posts
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    Ames
    • #4
    • 3rd Dec 17, 11:12 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd Dec 17, 11:12 PM
    If business costs are coming out of his wage then he's earning less than minimum wage. For it to be a viable business it needs to cover costs and his wage.

    Can't he take any time off to go to the job centre? If he's self-employed then surely he can arrange his time to free up a couple of hours?
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.

    Reading the alphabet in 2017. 21/100
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    • Emma300
    • By Emma300 3rd Dec 17, 11:36 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    Emma300
    • #5
    • 3rd Dec 17, 11:36 PM
    • #5
    • 3rd Dec 17, 11:36 PM
    Itís a bit complicated because he works as a self employed sub contracter for his boss so his boss sorts the work out for him basically and heís not in a position to turn it down. Itís quite hard to explain because he works for someone but as self employed so heís not his own boss.
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 4th Dec 17, 12:12 AM
    • 1,637 Posts
    • 781 Thanks
    Mersey
    • #6
    • 4th Dec 17, 12:12 AM
    • #6
    • 4th Dec 17, 12:12 AM
    Ok thank you

    He is earning above minimum wage but as heís self employed most of his wage goes on fuel to get to work and things he needs for his job tools etc. And once the bills and rent is paid he has nothing left.

    Thanks for your help.
    Originally posted by Emma300

    As he's self-employed, the advice from the JobCentre Plus office was incorrect. He is not eligible to claim UC as he does not satisfy the gateway requirements.


    He should therefore claim Working Tax Credits.
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 4th Dec 17, 9:38 AM
    • 10,905 Posts
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    pmlindyloo
    • #7
    • 4th Dec 17, 9:38 AM
    • #7
    • 4th Dec 17, 9:38 AM
    As he's self-employed, the advice from the JobCentre Plus office was incorrect. He is not eligible to claim UC as he does not satisfy the gateway requirements.


    He should therefore claim Working Tax Credits.
    Originally posted by Mersey
    Depends on whether this is a live or full service area.

    If it is a full service area then it would be a claim for UC.

    https://www.welfare-benefits-unit.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/What-triggers-a-claim-for-Universal-Credit-in-a-full-service-area.pdf

    The OP's partner would have to attend the Job Centre appointment as making a Claimant Commitment is part of the process for claiming.

    The OP's partner would need to be earning 35 x £7.50 per week to meet the Minimum Earnings Threshold. So, the question is does he earn this?
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 4th Dec 17, 9:45 AM
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    pmlindyloo
    • #8
    • 4th Dec 17, 9:45 AM
    • #8
    • 4th Dec 17, 9:45 AM
    I should add that if your partner is not earning the Minimum Earnings Threshold then that does not mean that you cannot apply for UC. You would still be eligible but they would use the Minimum Earnings Amount as his income.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-and-self-employment-quick-guide/universal-credit-and-self-employment-quick-guide
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 4th Dec 17, 9:46 AM
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    pmlindyloo
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 17, 9:46 AM
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 17, 9:46 AM
    But first check and see if you have been advised correctly.

    Put your post code in the link here:

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/universal-credit/before-you-apply/Check-if-youre-eligible-for-Universal-Credit/
    • Icequeen99
    • By Icequeen99 4th Dec 17, 1:04 PM
    • 3,468 Posts
    • 2,356 Thanks
    Icequeen99
    Depends on whether this is a live or full service area.

    If it is a full service area then it would be a claim for UC.

    https://www.welfare-benefits-unit.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/What-triggers-a-claim-for-Universal-Credit-in-a-full-service-area.pdf

    The OP's partner would have to attend the Job Centre appointment as making a Claimant Commitment is part of the process for claiming.

    The OP's partner would need to be earning 35 x £7.50 per week to meet the Minimum Earnings Threshold. So, the question is does he earn this?
    Originally posted by pmlindyloo
    PMLindyloo is right - it depends on what type of area you use. You can check at www.universalcreditinfo.net

    I also think you will need some advice - it sounds like your partner may not be really self-employed. You need to use the HMRC status checker to find out.

    Does he fill in a tax return? Does he pay class 2 national insurance?

    IQ
    • Icequeen99
    • By Icequeen99 4th Dec 17, 1:05 PM
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    Icequeen99
    As he's self-employed, the advice from the JobCentre Plus office was incorrect. He is not eligible to claim UC as he does not satisfy the gateway requirements.


    He should therefore claim Working Tax Credits.
    Originally posted by Mersey
    But that wouldn't apply in a full service area.

    IQ
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 4th Dec 17, 1:27 PM
    • 1,637 Posts
    • 781 Thanks
    Mersey
    From the DWP's UC5 (a Guide for Self employed UC claimants, dated 2016), a Claimant is exempt from the MIF in their first year.


    Has this changed recently?
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • Ames
    • By Ames 4th Dec 17, 1:40 PM
    • 16,585 Posts
    • 29,021 Thanks
    Ames
    From the DWP's UC5 (a Guide for Self employed UC claimants, dated 2016), a Claimant is exempt from the MIF in their first year.


    Has this changed recently?
    Originally posted by Mersey
    Based on a CAB page I read, the exemption is the first year of self employment, not the first year of claiming. So it depends where the OP lives and how long her partner has been self employed.

    I also agree with IceQueen, having recently been involved with regulations from an employer perspective it sounds as though the partner is actually employed. Perhaps posting on the employment forum here would give advice on the next steps?
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.

    Reading the alphabet in 2017. 21/100
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 4th Dec 17, 1:45 PM
    • 10,905 Posts
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    pmlindyloo
    I suspect that the OP's partner is a Construction Industry Scheme (CIS)sub contractor where his tax is deducted at source and then he reclaims back any overpaid tax when he does his self assessment.
    Don't know how this works for Universal Credit purposes.

    https://www.gov.uk/what-you-must-do-as-a-cis-subcontractor
    • Icequeen99
    • By Icequeen99 4th Dec 17, 4:32 PM
    • 3,468 Posts
    • 2,356 Thanks
    Icequeen99
    From the DWP's UC5 (a Guide for Self employed UC claimants, dated 2016), a Claimant is exempt from the MIF in their first year.


    Has this changed recently?
    Originally posted by Mersey
    No it hasn't changed - but it is first year of self-employment not first year of the claim. But in your comment above, you said self-employed people were not eligible to claim UC due to gateway conditions, but that isn't correct because it depends if you live in full service or live service area (although after 31 Dec there will be no gateway conditions as no live service from that date)

    IQ
    • Emma300
    • By Emma300 4th Dec 17, 6:35 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Emma300
    Yes thatís right
    Thank you
    • Emma300
    • By Emma300 4th Dec 17, 6:44 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Emma300
    Thank you for everyone’s replies and advice. We are in a full service area so we can’t get working tax credits anymore as I have already enquired about this and was advised that we can no longer claim tax credits in our area as it’s now universal credit. And yes pmlindloo you are right about the sub contracter thing self employment thing.
    Thanks
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 5th Dec 17, 12:05 PM
    • 1,637 Posts
    • 781 Thanks
    Mersey
    Based on a CAB page I read, the exemption is the first year of self employment, not the first year of claiming.
    Originally posted by Ames

    & Pmlindyloo; icequeen


    The two are effectively the same for the vast majority of new UC claimants.


    As I explained on here 2 years ago when I assisted a self-employed claimant escape from UC and claim WTCs - as she had wrongly been advised by JCP, "there's no such as tax credits anymore - you need to claim UC" - someone who is self employed now does not satisfy the gateway conditions ['must not be self-employed, pregnant' and so on] in many areas.



    Having just checked the 2017 version of the UC5, it is still clear that the MIF, "will not apply to you as a Universal Credit claimant" in the first 12 months. It also makes clear, however, that, "During that start-up period, claimants must come to interviews every 3 months."


    Indeed it's why chair of the DWP Select Committee Frank Field MP said to the DWP & HMRC reps, "Can you write to us on that point, as many of us are still receiving correspondence stating that JCPs and HMRC are still giving out incorrect information on this point of minimum income floor which is worrying current claimants unnecessarily. Surely if someone is a self-employed low earner they'll be in receipt of Tax Credits where there is no MIF. Even for UC claimants who go self-employed there's no MIF in their first year. Also, another Member said JCPs are insisting full-time self-employed UC claimants must attend every month, but again this is wrong. We shouldn't be interrupting someone's working life in that way."


    [But I agree in this case with what you say pmlindyloo, icequeen, re full service areas having checked this. Thanks, I'll note that esp from the New Year. I also think pm is right re the subcontractor point - although I do question how many of the currently s/e are actually and many would probably be deemed workers if their employers were ever tested]
    Last edited by Mersey; 05-12-2017 at 12:20 PM.
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
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