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  • FIRST POST
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 3rd Dec 17, 8:26 PM
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    Zales200483
    issue with new build
    • #1
    • 3rd Dec 17, 8:26 PM
    issue with new build 3rd Dec 17 at 8:26 PM
    Hello everyone

    Thats my first post here so please be gentle

    I am sure you heard that one before but i have an issue with my new build house and would appreciate any wise counsel.

    Firstly, i have a laminate flooring in my living room. As the weather became colder i have noticed cold air coming from under the skirting boards!!! Checked with IR device and the temperature of the floor in those corners is up to 8 degrees Celcius colder than the floor temperature in the middle of the room and up to 12 degrees lower than air temperature!!!!
    Not an expert but surely there is something wrong. I have air bricks but those should provide the circulation for the void under the floor and should not let the air to penetrate the walls.

    Secondly, i was checking the air bricks this afternoon and noticed a sewage smell coming from two of them that are situated on the kitchen wall not far from waste pipes from kitchen. Is that something to be worry about?

    Any advise and thoughts much appreciated.

    Adam
Page 3
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 6th Dec 17, 6:45 PM
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    Zales200483
    Quick question, although it is not yet official, the builder proposal is to install outside gully and in that way reconnect the drains. I am a bit dubious about it as firstly it will spoil the look of the property, secondly they will have to go through wall to get the pipe out and i will still be left with original pipe going all way down through the floor . ~i assume that they will close it somehow but still i dont know how i feel about it. To add insult to injury i know absolutely nothing about drains etc. Any thoughts???
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 6th Dec 17, 8:44 PM
    • 14,177 Posts
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    GDB2222
    Quick question, although it is not yet official, the builder proposal is to install outside gully and in that way reconnect the drains. I am a bit dubious about it as firstly it will spoil the look of the property, secondly they will have to go through wall to get the pipe out and i will still be left with original pipe going all way down through the floor . ~i assume that they will close it somehow but still i dont know how i feel about it. To add insult to injury i know absolutely nothing about drains etc. Any thoughts???
    Originally posted by Zales200483
    What does your surveyor advise?
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 6th Dec 17, 8:53 PM
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    Doozergirl
    Most people I know have their sink waste pipe popping out from the wall. I think I’ve been one of those people all my life.

    I don’t think anyone notices. How many people’s houses have you looked at and thought that their sink wastes ruin the look of their house?

    In preference to smashing through the foundations? I’d take that every day.

    Have you and the site manager checked that every water outlet runs into the manhole when opened? Just in case.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 6th Dec 17, 8:55 PM
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    Zales200483
    I have surveyor attending on Monday when i am on my days off although i am a bit vary of whether it is his area of expertise really. No work will commence until i satisfied with proposed plan and have second opinion.
    I just wanted to know general opinion whether it is reasonable? downgrade? attempt from builder to fob me off? I would think that this alteration would change the specification of the building i have originally bought, will that affect the value of it?
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 6th Dec 17, 9:02 PM
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    Zales200483
    Doozergirl

    They have done it today,
    i understand your point but the layout of my house is that from the patio door i have paved footpath towards shed at steep angle alongside the house. It would mean that the pipe would be taken through the wall quite high and the gully would encroach on footpath.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 6th Dec 17, 9:03 PM
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    Doozergirl
    What they are proposing doesn’t affect value.

    Furts clearly has some strong opinions, but given the circumstances I would vastly prefer the option that most people have to smashing through damp proof courses and foundations.

    Drainage is really very simple. Kepp it flowing in the right direction and make sure it’s easy to rod blockages. Make any significant junctions with inspection chambers.

    Ask your friends how many have their kitchen waste popping out of the wall under the sink.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 6th Dec 17, 9:06 PM
    • 24,053 Posts
    • 66,667 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    Doozergirl

    They have done it today,
    i understand your point but the layout of my house is that from the patio door i have paved footpath towards shed at steep angle alongside the house. It would mean that the pipe would be taken through the wall quite high and the gully would encroach on footpath.
    Originally posted by Zales200483
    If there is enough fall for it to go underneath the floor in your house and hit the inspection chamber, it is equally possible to hit the inspection chamber by going into the paving on the other side of the wall within 150mm of your house.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 6th Dec 17, 9:17 PM
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    • 7 Thanks
    Zales200483
    I had gully in my previous(rented) house and tbh didnt like it. As funny as it sounds it just looks messy. But i got your point about going through foundation etc. Other issue is how they gonna deal with the remains of the original pipe going through the floor.
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 6th Dec 17, 10:11 PM
    • 14,177 Posts
    • 76,267 Thanks
    GDB2222
    I had gully in my previous(rented) house and tbh didnt like it. As funny as it sounds it just looks messy. But i got your point about going through foundation etc. Other issue is how they gonna deal with the remains of the original pipe going through the floor.
    Originally posted by Zales200483
    I'd want to know where the original non-drain pipe is going to and what's going on in your sub-floor. So, I'd want a camera poked down the non-drain and in through the air bricks.

    However, if the non-drain is not connected to anything, then it can be cut off above floor level and the hole filled.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 6th Dec 17, 11:01 PM
    • 30 Posts
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    Zales200483
    At the moment I am awaiting at written results of investigation and proposal how to rectify it. In a meantime i a have asked following question:
    Could you advise what exactly was the problem identified and why it has occurred?

    Who exactly was investigating today and what is they expertise and also who will sign it off as the person in charge/responsible.?

    Was the endoscopic camera consider to make sure that there is no further issues and if not why?

    Who will actually do the work and supervise it and be person responsible for quality and compliance?

    Was environmental survey considered to make sure that there is no environmental and health issues with months of waste being dumped in the ground?

    Bottom line is that still noone of the managers had any decency to personally phone me and speak to me.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 7th Dec 17, 8:05 AM
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    Furts
    You do not know where the new gulley has been connected into. You do not know if this work has been tested, or whether it is bodged and leaking. You do not know if it is connected to a foul drain - it may have been bodged into the surface water system.

    But it sounds like the work is incomplete - are they going to drill through your kitchen wall for the sink waste to go down the face of your brickwork?

    Remember this is your drainage on your land. You have not a clue what is happening. So all round a shocking state of affairs.

    Keepmoat are treating you, your rights, your courtesy and your respect with utter contempt. A message is being sent out loud and clear here. Put bluntly Keepmoat are taking the p-ss out of you.
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 7th Dec 17, 8:23 AM
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    • 7 Thanks
    Zales200483
    At the moment the propose solution is to drain through the wall to get the kitchen waste pipe outside, run it down to the gulley which then will be going underground around the corner directly to the manhole.
    No work has been carried on yet, i still awaiting for all the paperwork as i was promised.
    When i inquired about water testing the for completion certificate manager stated that they open all the downstairs taps and flush toilets at the same time and that was the reason they didnt pick on it. Surely it is absolutely stupid as its testing nothing really.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 7th Dec 17, 8:37 AM
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    Furts

    When i inquired about water testing the for completion certificate manager stated that they open all the downstairs taps and flush toilets at the same time and that was the reason they didnt pick on it. Surely it is absolutely stupid as its testing nothing really.
    Originally posted by Zales200483
    For your sake, and all others owners on your development, I hope your Site Manager is not as clueless as this statement implies. But on reflection, considering what has happened so far ...

    Running "a foul drain around the corner" is unacceptable without a means of access for rodding and inspection. But again, your Site Manager should know all about the rules, and good practice here! Or do they ... ?

    Keepmoat are advertising for a Maintenance Operative in Hereford. This role is given a BS title, but the applicant is required to be polite, courteous, respectful and engage with the home owner. All entirely reasonable attributes. Why do your site personnel believe they can operate differently?

    I have advised you to contact the Chief Exec. Perhaps you can now see a little more of my logic and reasoning for doing so?
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 7th Dec 17, 9:13 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Zales200483
    Furts

    The gully would ran for about 1.5 - 2 meters to manhole underground. Is it part of building regulations that it need to have access point for maintenance?
    • Furts
    • By Furts 7th Dec 17, 9:44 AM
    • 3,630 Posts
    • 2,267 Thanks
    Furts
    Furts

    The gully would ran for about 1.5 - 2 meters to manhole underground. Is it part of building regulations that it need to have access point for maintenance?
    Originally posted by Zales200483
    It is a principle that all drainage is accessible for rodding, inspection and maintenance. The question then becomes how is this achieved?

    Put matters in a different context. If you were going to lay a new drain to connect your kitchen, even a short length like 2 metres, you would need Buildings Regulations. You would need a design,(could be in your head - just a concept), you would need good practice and you would have an Inspection. You would then request a Completion Certificate.

    It seems Keepmoat are not following this thought process, but here you are putty in their hands. You have never come back to the forum to say whether your development has ever received Buildings Regulations, nor Inspections, nor Completion, nor who has been doing this. Consequently I do not know what Keepmoat are up to on your development - maybe there is a general malaise there to avoid the Regulations?

    Equally you have never come back on anything regarding a warranty - who is doing this? (NHBC?) Are they also doing the Buildings Regulations?(NHBC? Another Approved Inspector? Local Authority?)

    You desperately need someone on your side for help, but with every day that passes you are failing to even address questions put on this forum! I sympathise with your situation and imagine you are getting somewhat stressed. But Keepmoat will also have weighed up your psyche and will be keen to bludgeon, or steam roll you into submission. It seems their current approach is one of arrogance, and indifference. But that could change, so be prepared for that.
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 7th Dec 17, 10:34 AM
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    Zales200483
    I will be honest with you all i feel overwhelmed, i am trying to get my head around all of it.
    I have not seen a Certificate of Completion, dont have a copy of it in my files.
    HNBC is the warranty body.
    I feel stuck and simply dont know where to go from there.
    I believe that the issue was not investigated properly, a endoscopic camera should be used to inspect the affected drain and also all the airbricks that smells. That was not done. Obviously nothing was mentioned to me about planning permission for the drain alteration etc. Site manager was surprised when i told him that i dont want work to commence today as i still awaiting office to clarify few issues.
    Clearly there is no communication here and i am not being taken seriously.
    ~it is the time to stay cool and focus but i need someone knowledgeable in my corner.
    I am going to escalate this to the level of Chef Exec.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 7th Dec 17, 3:43 PM
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    Furts
    You have to protect your interests but remember you are playing with, or fighting against, the big boys now. Under no circumstances refuse the work being rectified. Hence any conversations with the Site Manager need careful tactics. But here you are being unwise anyway. You should not be having any discussions with the Site Manager. You are way above this level - the Site Manager runs the site and not your problems. By dealing direct with the Site Manager you are, effectively, in breach of your warranty.

    There will be a clearly defined complaints/defects procedure within your purchase and you must follow this with minute attention to detail. If you do not you run the risk of everything getting thrown back at you. You also stand a real risk of Keepmoat walking away from your problems unless you tackle them in a calm, correct, professional manner.
    • betsie
    • By betsie 7th Dec 17, 6:13 PM
    • 312 Posts
    • 348 Thanks
    betsie
    Who signed off the building completion certificate - your local building control or the warranty provider? You need to contact which ever one it was and explain what's happened.

    If your local authority are not involved you may be able to pay them to get involved and check over the property and make sure everything is resolved correctly according to current building regs.
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 7th Dec 17, 11:43 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Zales200483
    It is funny how the mentioning of Head Office can speed things out. After sending detailed email explaining why i want to escalate my complaint to head office level, within an hour i had 2 managers phoning me.
    The lead will be taken now by contacts manager who will be dealing with mine complaint.
    Furts, you are fortune teller, at the beginning of the conversation the manager attempt to throw exactly this one at me claiming that they offer to do the work and i refused. I calmly explained that it is not the case and i just wasnt ready to allow work as i was promised full paper work beforehand and also had concerns about the investigation.
    As it stands know, he is arranging a CCTV company to attend and have a look with endoscope camera into drains and into smelly air bricks to assess the situation. He will be present as well to supervise it. Then we gonna take it from there. Also he will prepare couple proposals in writing of how to deal with the issue.
    At the moment i am taking one step at the time and will use the time to educate myself and prepare tactics so i am ready for next step.
    I am aware that i need to give them opportunity to rectify the issues and it is a balancing act to get as much as i can but not to push to far.
    Thank you all especially Furts for your words of wisdom
    • Furts
    • By Furts 8th Dec 17, 9:03 AM
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    Furts
    Be wary of, and be guarded on your comments to, the Contracts Manager. A generalisation here, but to give you an indication ...Contracts Managers are bruisers who bully the Site Managers into hitting handover targets. Quality goes down the pan in the pursuit of production bonus being paid to the Contracts Manager.

    I have worked with some sound Contracts Managers, some were decent human beings, some had a knowledge of the construction industry, but others were outright chancers who had bullied and bullsh-tted their way into their roles.

    If you get the latter type then expect to be fobbed off with nonsense and dis-interest.

    However you could do the professional thing. When you have your introduction exchange business cards. Then look closely at the one you are receiving - are there any worthwhile, genuine professional membership grades for the Contracts Manager? Or are they unqualified, which in turn suggests they may be useless?
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