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  • FIRST POST
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 3rd Dec 17, 7:26 PM
    • 30Posts
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    Zales200483
    issue with new build
    • #1
    • 3rd Dec 17, 7:26 PM
    issue with new build 3rd Dec 17 at 7:26 PM
    Hello everyone

    Thats my first post here so please be gentle

    I am sure you heard that one before but i have an issue with my new build house and would appreciate any wise counsel.

    Firstly, i have a laminate flooring in my living room. As the weather became colder i have noticed cold air coming from under the skirting boards!!! Checked with IR device and the temperature of the floor in those corners is up to 8 degrees Celcius colder than the floor temperature in the middle of the room and up to 12 degrees lower than air temperature!!!!
    Not an expert but surely there is something wrong. I have air bricks but those should provide the circulation for the void under the floor and should not let the air to penetrate the walls.

    Secondly, i was checking the air bricks this afternoon and noticed a sewage smell coming from two of them that are situated on the kitchen wall not far from waste pipes from kitchen. Is that something to be worry about?

    Any advise and thoughts much appreciated.

    Adam
Page 2
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 4th Dec 17, 9:51 PM
    • 24,053 Posts
    • 66,667 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    That choice didn’t exactly pay off. Snagging straight away is essential. It would have been important to find this horrible issue much, much earlier.

    It would even make sense to do it professionally twice. You’ve spent enough money on the house after all, but you will find the snags yourself by day to day living over time anyway.

    Snag professionally straight away, snag yourself through your initial ownership and then pay again if you feel it’s warranted.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 4th Dec 17, 9:58 PM
    • 30 Posts
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    Zales200483
    Touche.
    In hindsight you are absolutely right. Should have been wiser. I guess inexperience.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 4th Dec 17, 10:10 PM
    • 24,053 Posts
    • 66,667 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    You live, you learn.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 5th Dec 17, 6:55 AM
    • 3,629 Posts
    • 2,267 Thanks
    Furts
    Touche.
    In hindsight you are absolutely right. Should have been wiser. I guess inexperience.
    Originally posted by Zales200483
    You are now fully on the back foot, and reliant on the goodwill of the builder to rectify any defects. We all live and learn, but in effect your approach is throwing away your legal rights, invalidating your warranty and showing the builder you are a weak person. This in turn puts the builder in control - they can choose what to address and the time scale for doing so.

    It happens, but as I said earlier you are in a worrying position. It is probable you do not realise how worrying this position is. I guess that is a positive upshot from inexperience.
    • J B
    • By J B 5th Dec 17, 8:18 AM
    • 2,383 Posts
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    J B
    Having lambasted the OP for all their mistakes - can we offer them any positive advice?

    • Furts
    • By Furts 5th Dec 17, 8:50 AM
    • 3,629 Posts
    • 2,267 Thanks
    Furts
    Having lambasted the OP for all their mistakes - can we offer them any positive advice?

    Originally posted by J B
    Not lambasted - just a reality check. Further, there is copious advice given so far, so the question becomes is anybody reading and acting on it?

    OP talked about a snagging survey before purchase. Clearly the funds were there but the survey was not commissioned. There is talk of a similar survey before two years is up. Again one assumes the funds are there, but the survey has not been commissioned. With every day that passes it can be argued OP's chance of any redress diminishes. There needs to be a bold decision taken, and get grip on everything now with professional help. This will not be cheap or straight forward because the situation has become a can of worms.

    You have mentioned the Building Inspector. Life does not work like this. OP has given no feedback to the forum on whether Regulations exist, nor who may have done Inspections and so on. One cannot expect the council to step in and sort this out - they do not have the expertise, nor do they work on a goodwill basis. But now for the rub - they may be responsible for inspecting and be negligent, so immediately another battle starts.

    I have said, for example, survey, investigation, Completion Certificate, Final Inspection, Method Statement, Risk Assessment. What more guidance and hints or buzz words are required?

    A good Chartered Building Surveyor , or a good Clerk Of Works are two options. Even Forum users could help, but we do not know where the property is, so nobody will jump in blind here.

    Buying a new build home is a very, very risky proposition. Taking on "professional" developers/builders is an even more risky proposition. That is why OP needs to draw a line under matters and act from a position of fighting fire with fire. Anything less, at this stage in the two years, will be perceived as a sign of weakness and OP stands a good chance of being shaft-d.

    This is not lambasting - it is a view point based on years of experience.
    • ComicGeek
    • By ComicGeek 5th Dec 17, 12:44 PM
    • 251 Posts
    • 196 Thanks
    ComicGeek
    OP talked about a snagging survey before purchase. Clearly the funds were there but the survey was not commissioned. There is talk of a similar survey before two years is up. Again one assumes the funds are there, but the survey has not been commissioned. With every day that passes it can be argued OP's chance of any redress diminishes. There needs to be a bold decision taken, and get grip on everything now with professional help. This will not be cheap or straight forward because the situation has become a can of worms.
    Originally posted by Furts
    All too true unfortunately. I have clients who spend millions of pounds on a new house built to their exact specifications, and who pay me a significant fee to document their exact requirements and prepare drawings for the contractor to work to - but then they are unwilling to pay me for a couple of days at the end of the project to check and confirm that the contractor has actually provided them with everything that they have paid for, and at the required quality.

    Sometimes the contractor has got such a long list of things to include then things get missed - or a contractor sometimes leaves them out knowing they won't get checked.

    A building control completion certificate does not mean that everything is ok - very rarely do they understand enough about heating and electrical services to check. Probably half of all installations I check have something significantly wrong that requires correction.

    My only concern about snagging surveys is that ultimately the surveyor won't know everything about everything, they will always specialise in one area. A chartered surveyor is unlikely to check heating and electrical installations.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 5th Dec 17, 2:13 PM
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    Furts

    A building control completion certificate does not mean that everything is ok - very rarely do they understand enough about heating and electrical services to check. Probably half of all installations I check have something significantly wrong that requires correction.

    My only concern about snagging surveys is that ultimately the surveyor won't know everything about everything, they will always specialise in one area. A chartered surveyor is unlikely to check heating and electrical installations.
    Originally posted by ComicGeek
    I second your comments in particular these two. However here we are entering difficult areas. Snagging companies have existed for a maximum of 15 years, so are not a time and generation proofed concept. Their standards are what? Here there is no general baseline, and their calibre depends on the calibre of their staff. This is turn is a general reflection on those individuals professional qualifications. Do consumers search this out ...? The answer here is no.

    I did say a "good" CBS or CoW. Here the consumer has to decide what they require to be "snagged" and to what degree and detail. For mechanical and electrical one moves into specialist areas which is why the CoW profession has the grade, title and acceptance of an M&E CoW. If the consumer wishes to engage a M&E CoW they are of course welcome to do so. This has become a growing issue over the last 15 years as homes have moved towards eco, low energy, passiv, and alternative fuel/energy sources.

    Ultimately this is all a huge problem area and perhaps 99% of consumers have zero concept, zero interest, and zero awareness of what a quality job should be. It automatically follows that they have zero willingness to pay for quality control - as you are pointing out even on homes costing millions.

    To add to all this 100% of new home owners do not understand the warranty concept, the gist on which it is based, their duties and obligations to comply with it , nor the all round common sense and savvy required when considering the purchase of a new build home.

    All somewhat bleak and gloomy! Little wonder OP has issues then. Whilst we are all inexperienced in some or another matter, with a new home costing mega money it is foolish to be inexperienced. One simply asks those without the inexperience to help! But of course this comes at a cost, and we are back to the old thorny topics here. Does the consumer understand? Does the consumer care? Does the consumer want to pay?

    Perhaps 95% prefer the alternative route - ignorance is bliss and let's wing it!
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 5th Dec 17, 2:50 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Zales200483
    Good afternoon everyone and thank you for your posts. So far no contact from the builder in relation to requested plan to put things right, not even courtesy call and acknowledgement. Next stop is to contact head office and take it from there.

    As a response to above comments, yes I do recognize that I was not diligent enough in March when i bought the property. I was ready for issues but i have to put my hands up and admit that i have never expected anything like that.
    I will do my best to fight back although it is exactly as it was said, I am on back foot.
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 5th Dec 17, 5:39 PM
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    • 7 Thanks
    Zales200483
    A bit of update folks. Got a phone call from customer service saying that they are preparing written plan of action etc. The only issue i can foresee is that they will try to address my concerns lfor instance the issue with breaking through foundation without proper professionals involved( structural engineer or building inspector) and make site manager to vouch for the method which i obviously wont accept.
    I guess we are going to see tomorrow.
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 5th Dec 17, 5:49 PM
    • 14,177 Posts
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    GDB2222
    I strongly suggest that you get a chartered surveyor in NOW. You may be able to recoup the cost from the builder, but it's important you do it anyway to protect your investment. As soon as you have a knowledgeable professional on your side, you know the builders are far less likely to try a cheap kludge.

    the point that the surveyor won't know about electrics, etc is a bit of a red herring. He can bring in any specialists he needs.

    Not installing the drains, eh!

    Please do name your builders! They sound like ones to avoid.
    Last edited by GDB2222; 05-12-2017 at 5:52 PM.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 5th Dec 17, 6:05 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Zales200483
    I have no problem with naming the company - it is Keepmoat
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 5th Dec 17, 6:06 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Zales200483
    Can anyone recommend Chartered building surveyor from South/West Yorkshire area?
    • Furts
    • By Furts 5th Dec 17, 6:13 PM
    • 3,629 Posts
    • 2,267 Thanks
    Furts
    I have no problem with naming the company - it is Keepmoat
    Originally posted by Zales200483
    The name has cropped up over the years - I cannot recall ever hearing anything positive about them.
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 5th Dec 17, 6:14 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Zales200483
    And it appears that rightly so.
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 5th Dec 17, 6:16 PM
    • 14,177 Posts
    • 76,267 Thanks
    GDB2222
    Can anyone recommend Chartered building surveyor from South/West Yorkshire area?
    Originally posted by Zales200483
    I think this is pretty straightforward stuff. Just get someone in, rather than worrying too much about getting the best possible person.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • J B
    • By J B 5th Dec 17, 6:26 PM
    • 2,383 Posts
    • 773 Thanks
    J B
    I think this is pretty straightforward stuff. Just get someone in, rather than worrying too much about getting the best possible person.
    Originally posted by GDB2222
    Surely, it was 'pretty straightforward' for the builders to do the job properly in the first place

    May as well find someone decent.
    • Zales200483
    • By Zales200483 5th Dec 17, 6:29 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Zales200483
    Well, it is not so straightforward to find someone decent as all of them are brilliant according to their websites;-)
    I will have a look, anyone from Yorkshire who can recommend decent surveyor?
    • Furts
    • By Furts 5th Dec 17, 6:29 PM
    • 3,629 Posts
    • 2,267 Thanks
    Furts
    A bit of update folks. Got a phone call from customer service saying that they are preparing written plan of action etc. The only issue i can foresee is that they will try to address my concerns lfor instance the issue with breaking through foundation without proper professionals involved( structural engineer or building inspector) and make site manager to vouch for the method which i obviously wont accept.
    I guess we are going to see tomorrow.
    Originally posted by Zales200483
    The Site Manager is likely to be a complete idiot, who has no interest in your issues, and is not qualified to design, inspect or oversee your remedial works. But even if you deem this opinion harsh - it is based on years of experience with house builders - ponder over the following .... If the Site Manager had any interest in management, in control, in Inspection, in Buildings Regulations, in testing and in snagging then your drainage problem would never have occurred.

    Now ponder long and hard. I have listed six fundamental tick boxes for the role of any house building Site Manager. Your site Manager has failed to score on any of these boxes. View it like this - your Site Manager is a zero out of sixer. This in turn means not only are they an idiot, as stated earlier, but they are also incompetent. It follows that if they are incompetent the Chief Executive of Keepmoat should be thinking ..."Why am I employing an incompetent idiot?"

    Were you to obtain the personal contact details for the Chief Exec and register a formal, written, complaint you might then find your complaint is escalated and given the attention it deserves. The flip side is your failure to do so would be a sign of weakness ...you can see where I am coming from!

    As I have said you have to fight fire with fire. Having an ars-hole running a housing site is no good to man nor beast.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 5th Dec 17, 6:42 PM
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    Furts
    Just in case any consumers ever do a search of the archives, I refer back to #20

    KEEPMOAT REFUSED TO ALLOW THE PURCHASER TO PERSONALLY FINANCE AND INSTRUCT A SNAGGING INSPECTION OF THEIR NEW HOME.

    What does this say for Keepmoat and the quality of their new build homes?
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