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    • Carvictor 48
    • By Carvictor 48 3rd Dec 17, 11:24 AM
    • 4Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Carvictor 48
    Overnight Guests
    • #1
    • 3rd Dec 17, 11:24 AM
    Overnight Guests 3rd Dec 17 at 11:24 AM
    I rent a one bedroomed flat, and since moving in have been maliciously harassed by an upstairs neighbour. The other 2 tenants in the building have both previously been on the receiving end of his malice. Despite police involvement, and a convo with my landlord assuring me that the man would leave me alone (nb: the said tenant has been there 9 yrs & landlord told me he had a lot of sympathy for him!)-I have just received a letter from my landlord stating that complaints of noise still continue particularly when my boyfriend visits. He goes on to state that my boyfriend may not stay over for more than one or 2 nights per week.

    just to add further to the soup, this tenant played this game before & successfully got someone's brother banned from the premises just to get at fellow tenant! Basically, I am doing nothing wrong- and this has been born out by police & council investigations, so the only way this guy can get to me is through this.

    I am 50 yrs old and appalled at this intrusion into my privacy. I would really appreciate any advice re: laws around overnight guests.
    Thanks. Carvictor 48
Page 1
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 3rd Dec 17, 11:37 AM
    • 11,196 Posts
    • 15,643 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    • #2
    • 3rd Dec 17, 11:37 AM
    • #2
    • 3rd Dec 17, 11:37 AM
    Assuming you rent the entire flat under an AST then you can have as many overnight guests as you like as frequently as you like in the property. It has SFA to do with your landlord as you have exclusive occupation of the property.

    Is the neighbour also a tenant of your landlord?
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 3rd Dec 17, 11:40 AM
    • 42,275 Posts
    • 49,112 Thanks
    G_M
    • #3
    • 3rd Dec 17, 11:40 AM
    • #3
    • 3rd Dec 17, 11:40 AM
    You have an AST tenancy I assume, in England/Wales?

    So you have a right to 'exclusive use' of the flat (ie its your home, not shared with the landlord and few rightss of access by the landlord).

    You also have a common law right to 'quiet enjoyment' of the flat. Nothing to do with noise, this means no one can interfere with your enjoyment of the premises.

    That includes inviting guests - whoever and whenever you want.

    there are probaly contractual restrictions on allowing anyone to 'move in' ie make it their primary residence (ssub-letting etc), but the landlord cannot make an arbitrary rule like "not stay over for more than one or 2 nights per week".

    I wwould

    * ignore the letter and continue to nvite your friend over when you wish (subject to the caveat above)

    * keep noise to a minimum (just neighbourly common sense)

    * liaise with the othher tenants - a united front is always stronger

    * keep the letter, (and any others) and start a log recording
    - commumicaton on this matter with the landlord
    - incidentss witth the neighbour
    This may in time develop into a valid claim of harassment (by one or the other or both) in which cases taking a record/history + evidence to the police will help. Hopefully it won't come tto that, but you say the police have previously been involved

    * is this a flat you want to stay in? Are you in a fixed term? You might be better off elsewhere........
    • macman
    • By macman 3rd Dec 17, 2:39 PM
    • 41,422 Posts
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    macman
    • #4
    • 3rd Dec 17, 2:39 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd Dec 17, 2:39 PM
    If there is no noise issue, how does he know this is allegedly on the nights that your boyfriend visits?
    As above, his letter has no legal basis whatever, though it does sound like you might want to move on once your AST ends, to be rid of this idiot.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop
    • imho
    • By imho 3rd Dec 17, 3:18 PM
    • 2,447 Posts
    • 1,596 Thanks
    imho
    • #5
    • 3rd Dec 17, 3:18 PM
    • #5
    • 3rd Dec 17, 3:18 PM
    Does boyfriend park within eye shot of your flat? If so get him to park further away from your flat as maybe tenant is seeing your boyfriend car and then just complains about noise.
    • Carvictor 48
    • By Carvictor 48 3rd Dec 17, 9:50 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Carvictor 48
    • #6
    • 3rd Dec 17, 9:50 PM
    • #6
    • 3rd Dec 17, 9:50 PM
    Yes he has been his tenant for 9 yrs! And yes, it's AST.
    • Carvictor 48
    • By Carvictor 48 3rd Dec 17, 10:00 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Carvictor 48
    • #7
    • 3rd Dec 17, 10:00 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Dec 17, 10:00 PM
    Thanks- The other tenants & I have requested a meeting with this person as well as LL &, if possible, the Police officer who has been dealing with this man's nonsense not just relating to myself, but for years now..
    I actually love the flat- it has a garden & other neighbours r lovely-plus I spent 19 months homeless (although thankfully not on the street as such).As I am on benefits due to long term health issue, it was extremely difficult to find accommodation that I could afford. Here there is a big shortfall between LHA rate & rent costs. As it is I pay 100pcm out of my meagre benefit to live here.

    Advice greatly appreciated- I intend to arm myself with comprehensive documentation of his harassment thus far & law around LL trying to enforce this unlawful guest rule.
    To answer Imho- this neighbour spies on my every move- the Police warned me that he probably has a listening device planted somewhere. Sadly, he keeps just stopping short of being able to be charged for malicious harassment. I am just the latest in a long line of victims but am nothing if not tenacious! I do not intend to loose my home or allow anyone to dictate my private life to me.
    Last edited by Carvictor 48; 03-12-2017 at 10:05 PM. Reason: To answer other post better
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 4th Dec 17, 6:14 AM
    • 16,122 Posts
    • 40,022 Thanks
    FBaby
    • #8
    • 4th Dec 17, 6:14 AM
    • #8
    • 4th Dec 17, 6:14 AM
    I think you should approach it with more of a listening attitude than proving you are right. You've already said that the LL has sympathy for the tenant. Different people have different attitude to noise and disruption and it is not inconceivable that you are much noisier than you think, or that your OH is when he comes to stay.

    If you really like the place and want to stay, then you need to work with your LL and neighbour. The LL can't enforce the rule but he can definitely give you notice at the end of your ast. What you can't do is pressure your LL to sort out your neighbour to suit your needs. There are only two options, try to understand why your neighbour is complaining so much about the noise, or move out.
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 4th Dec 17, 8:51 AM
    • 996 Posts
    • 672 Thanks
    saajan_12
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:51 AM
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:51 AM
    To clarify are the 'other tenant's in other flats with their own agreements or in the same unit as you, renting a room with shared access to common areas?

    If you have an AST, the LL cannot dictate who stays over etc. However note they can serve Section 21 notice to apply for eviction if / when your tenancy is a periodic tenancy. This would give you a few months but you would eventually be evicted. So decide whether its worth go in all guns blazing, or (look like) you're trying to work with the LL) even if you actually still have the boyfriend around.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 4th Dec 17, 10:32 AM
    • 11,196 Posts
    • 15,643 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    Thanks- The other tenants & I have requested a meeting with this person as well as LL &, if possible, the Police officer who has been dealing with this man's nonsense not just relating to myself, but for years now..
    I actually love the flat- it has a garden & other neighbours r lovely-plus I spent 19 months homeless (although thankfully not on the street as such).As I am on benefits due to long term health issue, it was extremely difficult to find accommodation that I could afford. Here there is a big shortfall between LHA rate & rent costs. As it is I pay 100pcm out of my meagre benefit to live here.

    Advice greatly appreciated- I intend to arm myself with comprehensive documentation of his harassment thus far & law around LL trying to enforce this unlawful guest rule.
    To answer Imho- this neighbour spies on my every move- the Police warned me that he probably has a listening device planted somewhere. Sadly, he keeps just stopping short of being able to be charged for malicious harassment. I am just the latest in a long line of victims but am nothing if not tenacious! I do not intend to loose my home or allow anyone to dictate my private life to me.
    Originally posted by Carvictor 48
    I'm not sure why you are trying to involve your landlord in a dispute with your neighbour. That sounds like a one way ticket to Section 21ville especially since your landlord seems to have some sympathy for him.

    It's not inconceivable that you and your boyfriend are making more noise than you realise. However, given your neighbour has issues with several other people the likelihood is that he is the problem not you.

    Personally I would just ignore him and carry on living your life as you have been whilst doing as G_M suggests and logging any incidents with the neighbour and reporting him to the police when necessary. Perhaps suggest that the other neighbours start doing the same.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • Carvictor 48
    • By Carvictor 48 4th Dec 17, 10:58 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Carvictor 48
    Pixie -I am not trying to involve my LL- one of the things the problem tenant started when I moved in was making false allegations to LL & Police. He is just weird! The LL has just sent me a letter once more giving credence to this man's nonsense, requesting a meeting with self &other tenants to sort this out. he also states I am not allowed to have ON guest more than 2 nights per week!
    The legality of this new stipulation was my main concern as this harassment is ongoing.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 4th Dec 17, 11:04 AM
    • 1,261 Posts
    • 1,020 Thanks
    Comms69
    Pixie -I am not trying to involve my LL- one of the things the problem tenant started when I moved in was making false allegations to LL & Police. He is just weird! The LL has just sent me a letter once more giving credence to this man's nonsense, requesting a meeting with self &other tenants to sort this out. he also states I am not allowed to have ON guest more than 2 nights per week!
    The legality of this new stipulation was my main concern as this harassment is ongoing.
    Originally posted by Carvictor 48
    It has no legal basis.


    Frankly I would tell the LL to foxtrot Oscar double quick, and look for a new place to live. You aren't going to be happy here.


    The LL cannot ban ANYONE from the flat, but you can ban ANYONE, including in most circumstances the LL himself.


    Noise isn't a police issue at any rate. But harassment is, and I would consider both the complainer and the LL as on the edge of actual harassment.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 4th Dec 17, 11:33 AM
    • 11,196 Posts
    • 15,643 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    The way you originally phrased it made it sounds as though you and the other tenants had requested a meeting with the nuisance neighbour and your landlord. Do you all have the same landlord? If so I can't believe that any sane landlord would risk losing several tenants to keep the one tenant who has issues with everyone and has had issues with previous tenants as well.

    Tread carefully with your landlord. He doesn't need a reason to issue a Section 21 notice.
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
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