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    • Bobby2k2
    • By Bobby2k2 2nd Dec 17, 5:03 PM
    • 80Posts
    • 62Thanks
    Bobby2k2
    Buying a house with 30 year side extension, no planning/building regs
    • #1
    • 2nd Dec 17, 5:03 PM
    Buying a house with 30 year side extension, no planning/building regs 2nd Dec 17 at 5:03 PM
    Hi

    I have had an offer accepted on a house that has an existing single story side extension running from front to back of the house. The extension is over 30 years old and was there when the current vendor bought it.

    The problem is there is no paper work or record of planning permission. I am worried be that the foundations may not meet current building standards.

    In addition to this, my plan is to build another storey on top of the existing extension and I’m worried that:
    a) the foundations may not be strong enough
    b) the council may refuse due because the ordination extension has no paper work.

    Does anyone have any experience in this area or advise?

    Thanks
Page 2
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 3rd Dec 17, 7:03 PM
    • 24,085 Posts
    • 66,698 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    Underpinning will show up on any future surveys for sale and may reduce the value of the property.

    I still can't see how this can be cheaper than buying purpose built house at the size you want. People extend because it is cheaper than moving if they have owned the house for several years. Your idea fails on the extending because it is cheaper than moving because you are wanting to move to this house to extend it. If this stacked up financially no one would buy an extended house they would all buy one that hadn't already been extended and do their own extensions.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    Tell me exactly how underpinning shows up on a survey? It doesn’t and can’t possibly show on a survey. Besides, underpinning to beef up exisitng foundations to support a second storey is perfectly acceptable and would not reduce value. It wouldn’t even show on the certificate which would simply be entitled “two storey side extension” or “addition of second storey to existing extension”.

    I extend houses for a living. In fact, I used to buy houses, extend them, sell them and make a profit. Whether it financially worth it all depends on the house and house prices.

    People extend for many reasons, not just one.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 3rd Dec 17, 8:44 PM
    • 3,280 Posts
    • 4,573 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    Tell me exactly how underpinning shows up on a survey? It doesn’t and can’t possibly show on a survey. Besides, underpinning to beef up exisitng foundations to support a second storey is perfectly acceptable and would not reduce value. It wouldn’t even show on the certificate which would simply be entitled “two storey side extension” or “addition of second storey to existing extension”.

    I extend houses for a living. In fact, I used to buy houses, extend them, sell them and make a profit. Whether it financially worth it all depends on the house and house prices.

    People extend for many reasons, not just one.
    Originally posted by Doozergirl
    As a developer though you would know how much extra the extended house would be worth and you wouldn't buy a house where after the extension you wouldn't be able to get your money back. Most people can't work this information out.

    Where I live a full width extension to increase the size of a kitchen will hold its value better than a side extension where you have to go through the house to get to the back garden. This is because there are pupose build bigger houses available as well.
    • Bobby2k2
    • By Bobby2k2 3rd Dec 17, 10:49 PM
    • 80 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    Bobby2k2
    As a developer though you would know how much extra the extended house would be worth and you wouldn't buy a house where after the extension you wouldn't be able to get your money back. Most people can't work this information out.

    Where I live a full width extension to increase the size of a kitchen will hold its value better than a side extension where you have to go through the house to get to the back garden. This is because there are pupose build bigger houses available as well.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    With respect, none of this applies in my case. I don't know where You live but I know the housing market where I am buying. I have already said that the maths stack up (and even if it didn't, which it does; I wouldn't be too bothered as we won't be moving for the foreseeable therefore will see a return regardless).

    Not that it matters, but I also plan to extend to the back of the house and with regards to garden access, it's an end of terrace and even with the existing side extension there is still ample access to the garden from the side of the house.

    My OP was about asking for advice regarding the foundations of the existing single story extension, so I too would like know how underpinning will show up on a survey???

    Please advise.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 3rd Dec 17, 11:48 PM
    • 30,829 Posts
    • 18,429 Thanks
    getmore4less
    if you need planning enough info may end up on the planning portal to work out the foundations were modified.

    Not sure why that would be a problem if it was part of developing the second story.
    • BobQ
    • By BobQ 3rd Dec 17, 11:51 PM
    • 9,823 Posts
    • 12,757 Thanks
    BobQ
    Hi

    I have had an offer accepted on a house that has an existing single story side extension running from front to back of the house. The extension is over 30 years old and was there when the current vendor bought it.

    The problem is there is no paper work or record of planning permission.
    Originally posted by Bobby2k2
    Not all extensions require planning permission. In some cases only building regulation approval is needed. I built an extension 20 + years ago and only had to pay a fee to obtain a ruing that planning permission was not need.

    If you are concerned that after buying it the council might require demolition, ask them specifically or get your solicitor to advise on insurance against it

    I am worried be that the foundations may not meet current building standards.
    Unlikely that they will but the applicable regulations are those at the time not now.
    In addition to this, my plan is to build another storey on top of the existing extension and I’m worried that:
    a) the foundations may not be strong enough
    b) the council may refuse due because the ordination extension has no paper work.


    It seems unlikely that a two storey full length extension will not need planning permission. But if it is not required you still need to meet current building regs.

    You first ought to check your council's planning website to see if it is permitted development not needing planning permission (you will need some accurate measurements)

    You could also take a few photos of the house and nearby houses and then visit the council planning office and ask informally what they think. You can also do searches on some local authority planning portals and see if any similar houses in the area have had planning applications refused.

    If the development is feasible my advice is to employ an architect to draw up a plan and submit any required planning applications. Then you will know it is done right.
    Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 4th Dec 17, 12:03 AM
    • 3,280 Posts
    • 4,573 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    With respect, none of this applies in my case. I don't know where You live but I know the housing market where I am buying. I have already said that the maths stack up (and even if it didn't, which it does; I wouldn't be too bothered as we won't be moving for the foreseeable therefore will see a return regardless).

    Not that it matters, but I also plan to extend to the back of the house and with regards to garden access, it's an end of terrace and even with the existing side extension there is still ample access to the garden from the side of the house.

    My OP was about asking for advice regarding the foundations of the existing single story extension, so I too would like know how underpinning will show up on a survey???

    Please advise.
    Originally posted by Bobby2k2
    I don't know how people find out that a house has been underpinned but there are often threads on here from people who are trying to buy houses where part of the house has been underpinned and the consequent reduction in sale price and difficulty in selling. You could do a search on the site and find out how it comes to light.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 4th Dec 17, 8:07 AM
    • 24,085 Posts
    • 66,698 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    I don't know how people find out that a house has been underpinned but there are often threads on here from people who are trying to buy houses where part of the house has been underpinned and the consequent reduction in sale price and difficulty in selling. You could do a search on the site and find out how it comes to light.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    This arises when houses suffer with subsidence. What is visible is the subsidence - racked windows, evidence of partial repointing, rendering, sloping floors, cracks in plasterwork, brickwork and rendering, doors that catch and don’t open/close correctly. It is often too expensive for homeowners to rectify the evidence of that and insurers will only pay to underpin the house. But even the evidence of subsidence can be removed from a house.

    The underpinning never shows on a survey. It is below ground. The surveyor would always ask in their report for underpinning paperwork, if relevant, but they couldn’t prove or disprove that it had been carried out.

    It makes people nervous and can make insurance a little more expensive or require more work to obtain insurance. They think that the house is broken.

    Going off topic now, but on the contrary, given two period houses in the same street where one had been underpinned (which is basically giving a house modern foundations to building regulations standards) and one that hadn’t, the choice should be one with foundations. If you were offered two new builds and one didn’t have foundations, you wouldn’t pick it and you wouldn’t even get a mortgage on it.
    Last edited by Doozergirl; 04-12-2017 at 8:11 AM.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
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