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  • FIRST POST
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 1st Dec 17, 3:30 PM
    • 1,630Posts
    • 780Thanks
    Mersey
    A Q for CIS, Pmlindyloo et al
    • #1
    • 1st Dec 17, 3:30 PM
    A Q for CIS, Pmlindyloo et al 1st Dec 17 at 3:30 PM
    Apologies for posing my own Q, but I'm assisting a family friend and whilst we have managed to have her claim restored and some backdating, a query remains:


    I explained that the legislation and practice differs for HMRC & Councils and how they deal with claims by low earners and the self-employed. [She was aware of this, as perhaps unusually for a claimant she has been both an employee in accounts and then had her own business, before suffering illness and bereavement.]


    However, does anyone know if there's any central guidance or recent Tribunal decision re backdating of WTCs by HMRC and/or the impact this should have on how Councils date/backdate resulting claims?


    The claimant was previously told that TC claims are routinely backdated by 30 days (from the date HMRC received her form). She then received an unsolicited letter - ie she hadn't queried this - stating that they should have in fact backdated her claim by 31 days, some 2 1/2 years ago when she first applied.


    However, having ploughed through the 22 letters, I see that the local authority refused backdating by the full month requested (even though they used the HMRC WTC live confirmation on their system to action the LHA/CT claim); but, agreed to backdate it by a fortnight, as that was apparently the day she, "first made contact" - she thinks she must have called requesting a form on that date - a couple of weeks after she posted her WTC application I assume.


    So, should benefit entitlement accruement commence on/backdate from:


    1. The date upon which a claimant dates the application form to HMRC (or LHA/CT form to the LA).


    2. The date upon which HMRC receives or processes it.


    3. The date on the system that the LA states a claimant first contacted them (via 'phone or email presumably).


    4. Or is it another case of it depends on the practice in that particular council (as in this instance, neighbouring West Lancs and Sefton MBCs are telling claimants different things in written responses).


    All seems rather haphazard, prone to error and potentially differs depending where a claimant resides.
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
Page 1
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 1st Dec 17, 3:36 PM
    • 4,691 Posts
    • 2,971 Thanks
    Darksparkle
    • #2
    • 1st Dec 17, 3:36 PM
    • #2
    • 1st Dec 17, 3:36 PM
    Tax credit entitlement starts from the date the claim form is received at their offices. It can then be backdated for 31 days (if entitlement existed). They say they do it automatically but I’ve seen many claims where it has to be requested.

    There are a few exceptions for refugees and disability benefits.

    Can’t help with councils, sorry.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 1st Dec 17, 4:18 PM
    • 10,119 Posts
    • 5,793 Thanks
    CIS
    • #3
    • 1st Dec 17, 4:18 PM
    • #3
    • 1st Dec 17, 4:18 PM
    Apologies for posing my own Q, but I'm assisting a family friend and whilst we have managed to have her claim restored and some backdating, a query remains:


    I explained that the legislation and practice differs for HMRC & Councils and how they deal with claims by low earners and the self-employed. [She was aware of this, as perhaps unusually for a claimant she has been both an employee in accounts and then had her own business, before suffering illness and bereavement.]


    However, does anyone know if there's any central guidance or recent Tribunal decision re backdating of WTCs by HMRC and/or the impact this should have on how Councils date/backdate resulting claims?


    The claimant was previously told that TC claims are routinely backdated by 30 days (from the date HMRC received her form). She then received an unsolicited letter - ie she hadn't queried this - stating that they should have in fact backdated her claim by 31 days, some 2 1/2 years ago when she first applied.


    However, having ploughed through the 22 letters, I see that the local authority refused backdating by the full month requested (even though they used the HMRC WTC live confirmation on their system to action the LHA/CT claim); but, agreed to backdate it by a fortnight, as that was apparently the day she, "first made contact" - she thinks she must have called requesting a form on that date - a couple of weeks after she posted her WTC application I assume.


    So, should benefit entitlement accruement commence on/backdate from:


    1. The date upon which a claimant dates the application form to HMRC (or LHA/CT form to the LA).


    2. The date upon which HMRC receives or processes it.


    3. The date on the system that the LA states a claimant first contacted them (via 'phone or email presumably).


    4. Or is it another case of it depends on the practice in that particular council (as in this instance, neighbouring West Lancs and Sefton MBCs are telling claimants different things in written responses).


    All seems rather haphazard, prone to error and potentially differs depending where a claimant resides.
    Originally posted by Mersey
    To clarify - This is a case of HMRC backdating WTC to a date under their rules and the LA then declining to backdate to the same date under their CTR rules ?

    Which Local Authority does it come under ?

    The HMRC rules regarding a claim date are given here - https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/tax-credits-technical-manual/tctm06101

    The HMRC backdating dates are given here - https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/tax-credits-technical-manual/tctm06103

    The date of a claim for a paper form will be the date the claim is received by the appropriate office. (For electronic claims made at the office it is the date the claim is made in the office).
    Paper claims sent via the Rapid Data Capture (RDC) process will be stamped at the RDC processing centre on the day they are received. The date of receipt will be the date of claim.
    Claims, which are made electronically via the Internet, will be treated as being made on the date on which it is recorded on an official computer system. An “official computer system” means a computer system maintained by or on behalf of the Board to send or receive information or process or store information.
    Craig
    Last edited by CIS; 01-12-2017 at 4:35 PM.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery as I'm now a self employed Council Tax advisor and consultant with my own Council Tax consultancy business. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 1st Dec 17, 8:09 PM
    • 1,630 Posts
    • 780 Thanks
    Mersey
    • #4
    • 1st Dec 17, 8:09 PM
    • #4
    • 1st Dec 17, 8:09 PM
    Thanks Darksparkle & Craig.


    Yes, essentially (as well as the fact that Sefton's refusal differs from West Lancs).


    Also is that LA procedure - of taking the 'first contact made' as the date - merely local practice or is it based on some SI or decision? As again I've seen that be the case in Lpool but not in Wirral or Halton.


    [I suppose the only benefit to new Claimants is that UC claims are intimated online and so the claim can begin on a Saturday, rather than having to wait for a JCP to be open. Perhaps that's why GO increased the 'waiting days' from 3 to 7. Although I think the Budget announced that's to reduced back again]
    Last edited by Mersey; 01-12-2017 at 8:15 PM.
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 1st Dec 17, 9:26 PM
    • 10,119 Posts
    • 5,793 Thanks
    CIS
    • #5
    • 1st Dec 17, 9:26 PM
    • #5
    • 1st Dec 17, 9:26 PM
    The government outlined a basic scheme with some restrictions but the local authority has the freedom to tweak things within the scheme boundaries. Of the top of my head I believe the maximum backdating periods were set in legislation.

    https://www.sefton.gov.uk/media/1134292/sefton-s13a-201718-full-scheme-v11.pdf

    Just had look through their scheme and section 112 would probably be a good one to look at.

    If there was no contact prior to the date the application form was requested then I'd guess they've made the determination that there was no continuous good cause for taking the claim back further. If you think that can be demonstrated then an appeal can be made to the council and, ultimately, a valuation tribunal.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery as I'm now a self employed Council Tax advisor and consultant with my own Council Tax consultancy business. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
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