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  • FIRST POST
    • MikeHammer
    • By MikeHammer 1st Dec 17, 2:48 PM
    • 17Posts
    • 4Thanks
    MikeHammer
    Euro Car Parks - Appeal Submitted
    • #1
    • 1st Dec 17, 2:48 PM
    Euro Car Parks - Appeal Submitted 1st Dec 17 at 2:48 PM
    First time posting and in need of some brief advice before proceeding with an appeal.

    I have read the stickies, I've read the FAQ's, I've read the BPA Code of Practice and I've reviewed paragraph 9 of POFA 2012 that relates to postal NTK's. I've also searched various things on this forum in order to better equip myself with the knowledge I may need, should I proceed with an appeal. Apologies in advance for not being able to link the images due to being a new member.

    Put simply, the driver entered a ECP car park from a 30mph road at around 7.50pm on a dark night. On the occasion for which the PCN has been issued, the driver did not see signs upon entering the car park, nor did they see any larger signs adjacent to ticket machines. No signage was visible from where the driver parked the car, nor on the exit route used from the car park (a genuine, gravel path exit - not jumping a fence or anything!).

    The times indicated on the PCN say the vehicle was in the car park for 10 minutes and 48 seconds. The PCN shows ANPR images of a numberplate (the car itself is not visible in the image, nor is anything identifiable as the car park itself).

    The reason I'm asking for advice is because the driver did not purchase a ticket for the duration of the stay as they did not see the signage (the majority of what I've read when searching this forum are from people who have tickets but who've exceeded the time permitted).

    Upon returning to the car park (without a camera so unable to post actual pics), there are small signs at the entrance that have a white "P" in a blue square and some other small text (apologies for not being able to share an image link to an example). This sign is at a height not convenient for a driver to see/read when turning into the car park from a 30mph road (where Government guidelines say the sign must be legible at a speed of 15mph). It is not illuminated, either by direct or indirect light. It appears to be reflective but is at a height far above that which would be lit by car headlights (also the angle of approach to the car park mean your headlights would not light up that sign even if it were at a lower level).

    The main sign in the car park located next to a ticket machine (that is illuminated) is a big yellow/blue ECP standard looking sign (again, apologies for not being able to share an image link to an example), however the driver did not see it when parking on the occasion for which the PCN was issued. Having gone back to the car park and specifically looked, it *is* illuminated and it is directly opposite the vehicle entrance to the car park (probably 100 yards or so directly in front of the entrance), however the driver drove immediately right upon entering the car park so would not have been facing it at any point.

    I have attempted to search for any related advice. I have found some very useful information (so thank you to everyone who commits time to helping others on here) but nothing that fits the combination of circumstances (not purchasing a ticket) *and* potential reason for appeal (signage).

    I wanted to seek your views on whether it's worth me appealing, given the driver did not buy any ticket at all and given it probably looks like all the relevant info that needs to be on the signs is on the signs (they're just not prominent at all).

    Thank you in advance.
    Last edited by MikeHammer; 08-12-2017 at 2:41 PM.
Page 2
    • MikeHammer
    • By MikeHammer 7th Dec 17, 3:21 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    MikeHammer
    stick to the same thread please

    one topic , one thread only

    open a new thread if its a different topic or pcn or court case

    so one thread for each case , start to finish
    Originally posted by Redx
    Clarified - thank you
    • Redx
    • By Redx 7th Dec 17, 3:35 PM
    • 16,882 Posts
    • 20,955 Thanks
    Redx
    Hi guys, I'm seeking clarification on the question from above, specifically:



    Thank you!
    Originally posted by MikeHammer
    explained in post #15 here

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5756287
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • MikeHammer
    • By MikeHammer 8th Dec 17, 2:48 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    MikeHammer
    Bit of an update to say I've now submitted the first phase appeal to ECP. I've been busy reading lots and lots of threads on this forum, including the POPLA appeals decisions thread and the background to everyone's appeal. I've been trying to get my facts straight about the various aspects of this and have spent lots of time collating a substantial amount of information for the inevitable POPLA appeal of which I hope to post my first draft for people's comment early next week.

    I've also fired off an email to the Council's Planning Department about Planning Permission for the ANPR cameras (or, more specifically, the pole that they're mounted to) as I found the original application for the car park and there is no mention of cameras or the pole to which they're attached, nor have there been any applications since that I can find. I've also asked about Advertising Consent for ECP's signage.

    I will post here next week for comments. I've gone with the approach of putting lots in, some of which you'll probably tell me I need to remove, on the grounds that if it's there you can tell me to keep it/remove it whereas if it's not there it's less likely someone's going to say "include a section on xx" (if that makes sense!

    I must say, this whole experience has been pretty interesting and has generated a real interest in the subject (is that sad?!)! In fact, my wife said someone in her office is about to pay a fine and I reeled off a stack of reasons why not to and things to check, all of which I've learned from you guys and your brilliantly helpful contributions to this forum so thank you.

    Thanks everyone
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