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    • pma13
    • By pma13 1st Dec 17, 1:32 PM
    • 115Posts
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    pma13
    Indemnity insurance loft conversion
    • #1
    • 1st Dec 17, 1:32 PM
    Indemnity insurance loft conversion 1st Dec 17 at 1:32 PM
    Hello
    Just wanted to get some advice /feedback . It's come back that the 4 bed we,re buying hasn't got building regs for loft conversion. Surveyor says he's not concerned over safety but it will incur costs to get up to building regs spec. And to be honest as this will be daughters room I am keen to do this. I gave vendor two options money off to account for work to be undertaken ( this decision wasn't taken lightly there's a lot unexpected work to do along side this ) or himself go for retrospective regs.

    Anyway they've come back and said they'll purchase indemnity insurance. Yes I am happy that we're protected in case any action taken by LA but my opinion is that I am still going to be paying out more unexpected money. Am I being greedy ? Expecting too much ? Can anyone advise how to proceed even though I've told solicitor they've sent contracts this morning !
Page 1
    • RedFraggle
    • By RedFraggle 1st Dec 17, 1:43 PM
    • 533 Posts
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    RedFraggle
    • #2
    • 1st Dec 17, 1:43 PM
    • #2
    • 1st Dec 17, 1:43 PM
    So it is now a 3-bed with a "useful loft room" not a 4 bed. What impact has that on price in your area?
    Officially in a clique of idiots
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 1st Dec 17, 1:47 PM
    • 10,026 Posts
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    lincroft1710
    • #3
    • 1st Dec 17, 1:47 PM
    • #3
    • 1st Dec 17, 1:47 PM
    If you are intending bringing the conversion up to BR spec then indemnity insurance is a waste of money. Actually indemnity insurance in such cases is a waste of money full stop as there is next to zero chance of a council taking action.

    Ask the surveyor exactly what parts of the conversion lead him to believe there is no safety risk.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 1st Dec 17, 1:54 PM
    • 6,245 Posts
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    davidmcn
    • #4
    • 1st Dec 17, 1:54 PM
    • #4
    • 1st Dec 17, 1:54 PM
    Is the work actually necessary? After, I suspect the rest of the property isn't up to current "building regs spec" either, but that isn't an argument for getting money off. How old is the conversion?
    • pma13
    • By pma13 1st Dec 17, 1:56 PM
    • 115 Posts
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    pma13
    • #5
    • 1st Dec 17, 1:56 PM
    • #5
    • 1st Dec 17, 1:56 PM
    So it is now a 3-bed with a "useful loft room" not a 4 bed. What impact has that on price in your area?
    Originally posted by RedFraggle
    Well yes will lower price
    • pma13
    • By pma13 1st Dec 17, 1:58 PM
    • 115 Posts
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    pma13
    • #6
    • 1st Dec 17, 1:58 PM
    • #6
    • 1st Dec 17, 1:58 PM
    Is the work actually necessary? After, I suspect the rest of the property isn't up to current "building regs spec" either, but that isn't an argument for getting money off. How old is the conversion?
    Originally posted by davidmcn
    It was done prior to 2007 and surveyor couldn't give me a estimate
    • bouicca21
    • By bouicca21 1st Dec 17, 2:03 PM
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    bouicca21
    • #7
    • 1st Dec 17, 2:03 PM
    • #7
    • 1st Dec 17, 2:03 PM
    Does the vendor have the drawings so that you can work out exactly what was done? It may be quite safe even though not up to current regs. No point in indemnit insurance.

    And yes it's a 3 bed and should be priced accordingly.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 1st Dec 17, 2:19 PM
    • 1,188 Posts
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    Aylesbury Duck
    • #8
    • 1st Dec 17, 2:19 PM
    • #8
    • 1st Dec 17, 2:19 PM
    I'd consider revising your offer. You are now looking at a three-bed house with an accessible loft fitted out for storage. Unless you have details to show that it's safe, would you risk having your daughter sleeping up there? If it's safe, but just not compliant, that's different but until you understand why it's not compliant I would put things on hold.
    • glasgowdan
    • By glasgowdan 1st Dec 17, 6:15 PM
    • 2,630 Posts
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    glasgowdan
    • #9
    • 1st Dec 17, 6:15 PM
    • #9
    • 1st Dec 17, 6:15 PM
    How old is the house? Can you ask neighbours if they know when it was converted?

    There are tens/hundreds of thousands of loft conversions around the UK that have been done decades ago without building regs. They are safe, and they ARE bedrooms in every sense.

    Upgrading a conversion to meet BR because you're concerned about safety is very OTT. Appoint a structural survey instead and ask if it's safe (rather than what need a done to meet building regulations).
    • G_M
    • By G_M 1st Dec 17, 6:45 PM
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    G_M
    ......Surveyor says he's not concerned over safety but it will incur costs to get up to building regs spec.
    Originally posted by pma13
    1) Spec in 2007 when the conversion was done? Or current Building Regs spec? You could argue the former is reasonable. The latter is not.

    2) Surveyor has clearly done a thorough inspection since he was prepared to write "he's not concerned over safety ". So which aspects are below the relevant spec? That obviously affects what costs you might/might not reasonably discuss. You can't jst pick a vague cost out of the air.
    • pma13
    • By pma13 1st Dec 17, 8:17 PM
    • 115 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    pma13
    How old is the house? Can you ask neighbours if they know when it was converted?

    There are tens/hundreds of thousands of loft conversions around the UK that have been done decades ago without building regs. They are safe, and they ARE bedrooms in every sense.

    Upgrading a conversion to meet BR because you're concerned about safety is very OTT. Appoint a structural survey instead and ask if it's safe (rather than what need a done to meet building regulations).
    Originally posted by glasgowdan
    Good idea thankyou
    • pma13
    • By pma13 1st Dec 17, 8:19 PM
    • 115 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    pma13
    1) Spec in 2007 when the conversion was done? Or current Building Regs spec? You could argue the former is reasonable. The latter is not.

    2) Surveyor has clearly done a thorough inspection since he was prepared to write "he's not concerned over safety ". So which aspects are below the relevant spec? That obviously affects what costs you might/might not reasonably discuss. You can't jst pick a vague cost out of the air.
    Originally posted by G_M
    Well I think I've downplayed what he actually said .... The surveyor hasn't got concerns around support but advises we will need works doing to upgrade ie windows, fire doors , stairs unlikely be fire rated, no mains operated fire alarms etc fire escape inadequate, minimal evidence of thermal insulation provisions beneath sloping ceiling and minimal evidence of quilt loft insulation behind low height knee walls at room edges.
    • Slithery
    • By Slithery 1st Dec 17, 9:08 PM
    • 354 Posts
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    Slithery
    So in other words it just doesn't meet current specs. None of those things you listed were required when the loft conversion was done.
    • RedFraggle
    • By RedFraggle 2nd Dec 17, 7:33 AM
    • 533 Posts
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    RedFraggle
    My main concern would be whether the joists are adequately supported to take the weight of furniture and whether you could get out in a fire.
    Officially in a clique of idiots
    • Typhoon2000
    • By Typhoon2000 2nd Dec 17, 10:00 AM
    • 777 Posts
    • 363 Thanks
    Typhoon2000
    My main concern would be whether the joists are adequately supported to take the weight of furniture and whether you could get out in a fire.
    Originally posted by RedFraggle
    Depending on the age of the house I would be more concerned about the 1st floor joists rotting away. The original house would not have any building regs and would fail most current regs and current fire regulations. The loft floor may well be the best built in the house.
    • glasgowdan
    • By glasgowdan 2nd Dec 17, 1:03 PM
    • 2,630 Posts
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    glasgowdan
    But if buyers all expected sellers to bring their entire homes up to building regs standards then things would be so much better!
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 2nd Dec 17, 3:06 PM
    • 10,026 Posts
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    lincroft1710
    But if buyers all expected sellers to bring their entire homes up to building regs standards then things would be so much better!
    Originally posted by glasgowdan
    If the sellers complied it would reduce number of posts on this board by 50%
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 2nd Dec 17, 3:32 PM
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    unforeseen
    And increase house prices by how much?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 2nd Dec 17, 3:35 PM
    • 42,232 Posts
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    G_M
    But if buyers all expected sellers to bring their entire homes up to building regs standards then things would be so much better!
    Originally posted by glasgowdan
    Quite.

    In 1851 when my house was built, they laid very shallow and inadequate foundations. These are way below the requirements of today's Building Regulattions.

    So naturally, when I come to sell, I shall demolish my 150 year old stone house, re-dig the foundations properly so that they will last, and then re-consruct the house to full BR standards.

    That way the buyer will have no cause for complaint and my sale will go much more smoothly.

    I intend to recoup the cost of this from the original cowboy builders
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 2nd Dec 17, 3:35 PM
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    unforeseen
    But if buyers all expected sellers to bring their entire homes up to building regs standards then things would be so much better!
    Originally posted by glasgowdan
    Why not include IEE regs as well or even all standards?

    Owners could be in a constant state of chasing the latest standards to update their properties.
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