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    • Mummy Jo
    • By Mummy Jo 1st Dec 17, 9:57 AM
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    Mummy Jo
    John Lewis Further Damaged my iMac during repair
    • #1
    • 1st Dec 17, 9:57 AM
    John Lewis Further Damaged my iMac during repair 1st Dec 17 at 9:57 AM
    Hi all,

    I'm hoping for some advice as I am not sure where I stand with this one at all.

    I bought an iMac 27 inch desktop in the sale at John Lewis 2 years ago. It started to make really funny noises. So I googled and it looks like its a Hard Disk problem. John lewis accepted it for repair - all good.

    Thing is it had a really small crack on the display - around 1-2cm and it was no where near the bit of the screen you use - it was on the edge. It has come back from repair and the HDD is great - they also replaced the fan. However the crack is now 7cm long!! and extends well into the visual working area.

    The company that JL sent it to say that the crack was 5-6cm when they got it and they've got photos of it. We've had HUGE issues with JL over communication and lack of proper procedures anyway... They told us that the crack would be photographed in store before it was sent to the repair agent so that they had proof of it. It seems that this wasn't done. They've offered us £75 compensation for the inconvenience (mostly relating to the other issues and not the crack.
    We have no proof of how long the crack was when we dropped it off. They have no proof of how big the crack was when they sent it to repair. It could have been made worse in transit.

    Does anyone have any idea where we stand? Who has to prove what?

    I'm beyond devastated with this. I'm in the final year of a PhD and I need my computer to finish.
    I'd really appreciate some tips or pointers to follow.
    Thanks

    Jo
Page 1
    • cono1717
    • By cono1717 1st Dec 17, 10:04 AM
    • 645 Posts
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    cono1717
    • #2
    • 1st Dec 17, 10:04 AM
    • #2
    • 1st Dec 17, 10:04 AM
    Ultimately JL have a duty of care for the goods that in transit, it seems very silly of them to not cover their own backs and report there was a mark there to begin with.

    The problem you will have is if JL start saying there was a 5-6cm scratch there when you dropped it off. Even if JL had reported the 1-2cm mark and it got bigger then it would be for JL to deal with the issues to put you back to where you where before you send it as it happened in their care.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 1st Dec 17, 10:21 AM
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    neilmcl
    • #3
    • 1st Dec 17, 10:21 AM
    • #3
    • 1st Dec 17, 10:21 AM
    The fact is it had pre-existing damage to begin with that has grown since they took it into repair is hardly JL's fault. If you had a small crack on your windscreen and allowed someone else to drive the car would you blame them if the crack grew during their journey or take responsibility for it yourself.
    • Mummy Jo
    • By Mummy Jo 1st Dec 17, 10:32 AM
    • 492 Posts
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    Mummy Jo
    • #4
    • 1st Dec 17, 10:32 AM
    • #4
    • 1st Dec 17, 10:32 AM
    I guess... I see it as I left it in their care to repair the damaged disk drive. We discussed the crack when it was dropped off so we were open about it, they told us they've photograph it so that there was an official log of the crack. At no point did they indicate that the crack might get bigger. They agreed to repair the disk drive with the pre existing crack as they thought they could do - we queried at the time about the crack. They accepted it and we were never at any point informed of the possibility of them making worse whilst it was in their care.

    The example you give of letting someone else drive the car isn't a fair comparison. If I took my car to the garage and the repair work they did further exacerbated another "stable" issue then I think I would have the same question
    • cono1717
    • By cono1717 1st Dec 17, 11:05 AM
    • 645 Posts
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    cono1717
    • #5
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:05 AM
    • #5
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:05 AM
    The fact is it had pre-existing damage to begin with that has grown since they took it into repair is hardly JL's fault. If you had a small crack on your windscreen and allowed someone else to drive the car would you blame them if the crack grew during their journey or take responsibility for it yourself.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    If you took said car to a garage to fix some breaks and the windscreen crack grew you'd wonder how the hell they did it. Alternatively the garage wouldn't take the car with the crack for their own liability which is what JL should have done.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 1st Dec 17, 11:08 AM
    • 10,282 Posts
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    neilmcl
    • #6
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:08 AM
    • #6
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:08 AM
    I guess... I see it as I left it in their care to repair the damaged disk drive. We discussed the crack when it was dropped off so we were open about it, they told us they've photograph it so that there was an official log of the crack. At no point did they indicate that the crack might get bigger. They agreed to repair the disk drive with the pre existing crack as they thought they could do - we queried at the time about the crack. They accepted it and we were never at any point informed of the possibility of them making worse whilst it was in their care.

    The example you give of letting someone else drive the car isn't a fair comparison. If I took my car to the garage and the repair work they did further exacerbated another "stable" issue then I think I would have the same question
    Originally posted by Mummy Jo
    In your opinion! Why would you think the crack was "stable"? The fact that it hadn't grown whilst sitting still on your desktop for however long doesn't imply that it couldn't get worse once it was moved and in transit. Again, not really JL's fault, the fact they noted that a crack was there beforehand is neither here nor there.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 1st Dec 17, 11:10 AM
    • 10,282 Posts
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    neilmcl
    • #7
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:10 AM
    • #7
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:10 AM
    If you took said car to a garage to fix some breaks and the windscreen crack grew you'd wonder how the hell they did it. Alternatively the garage wouldn't take the car with the crack for their own liability which is what JL should have done.
    Originally posted by cono1717
    Not really, no. If I had a crack on my windscreen and hadn't done anything to remedy it then I'd accept that it could get worse at any time no matter who had possession of the car and wouldn't be blaming anyone else. And to say that a garage wouldn't take a car in because it had a cracked windscreen is frankly nonsense.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 1st Dec 17, 11:56 AM
    • 4,070 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    • #8
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:56 AM
    • #8
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:56 AM
    I had a small crack on my iPad, which extended itself across the whole screen overnight without it being touched.

    Cracked glass is very unstable and just a change in temperature or moving it can cause it to get worse, so you have no claim against JL. Does you contents insurance cover accidental damage?
    • Mummy Jo
    • By Mummy Jo 1st Dec 17, 12:31 PM
    • 492 Posts
    • 412 Thanks
    Mummy Jo
    • #9
    • 1st Dec 17, 12:31 PM
    • #9
    • 1st Dec 17, 12:31 PM
    I've been on the phone to Citizens Advice. They have suggested that I can argue that the repair was not dealt with "reasonable care and skill" and that I am looking for reasonable damages to repair /compensate for the additional damage. The fact that I have no photographic evidence is a sticky point but the store have noted on our receipt "small crack in display" - We need to get an independent trader to determine what a small crack is and use that as our evidence.


    For those in similar situation who may have more evidence than we do - this information may prove useful

    Thanks for your suggestions.
    Last edited by Mummy Jo; 01-12-2017 at 12:38 PM.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 1st Dec 17, 12:38 PM
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    DoaM
    I've been on the phone to Citizens Advice. They have suggested that I can argue that the repair was dealt with "reasonable care and skill"
    Originally posted by Mummy Jo
    typo and you meant wasn't?
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Mummy Jo
    • By Mummy Jo 1st Dec 17, 12:39 PM
    • 492 Posts
    • 412 Thanks
    Mummy Jo
    Yes just read it and corrected it! Thanks!
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 1st Dec 17, 12:45 PM
    • 4,070 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    I've been on the phone to Citizens Advice. They have suggested that I can argue that the repair was not dealt with "reasonable care and skill" and that I am looking for reasonable damages to repair /compensate for the additional damage. The fact that I have no photographic evidence is a sticky point but the store have noted on our receipt "small crack in display" - We need to get an independent trader to determine what a small crack is and use that as our evidence.


    For those in similar situation who may have more evidence than we do - this information may prove useful

    Thanks for your suggestions.
    Originally posted by Mummy Jo
    You you need to pay for a report and that is basically going to say what most of us have been saying you that donít have a case.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 1st Dec 17, 12:47 PM
    • 10,282 Posts
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    neilmcl
    I've been on the phone to Citizens Advice. They have suggested that I can argue that the repair was not dealt with "reasonable care and skill" and that I am looking for reasonable damages to repair /compensate for the additional damage. The fact that I have no photographic evidence is a sticky point but the store have noted on our receipt "small crack in display" - We need to get an independent trader to determine what a small crack is and use that as our evidence.


    For those in similar situation who may have more evidence than we do - this information may prove useful

    Thanks for your suggestions.
    Originally posted by Mummy Jo
    You can "argue" whatever you like but getting anyone to accept this is something else. I fail to see that whether it's a small crack or not, noted beforehand, is really that relevant. Surely the point is there was pre-existing damage, the type that can easily get worse when moved or in transit, and no amount of care, reasonable or otherwise could prevent this. You should be blaming the person that caused the original crack in the first place than passing the buck onto someone else.
    Last edited by neilmcl; 01-12-2017 at 12:59 PM.
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 1st Dec 17, 2:42 PM
    • 2,716 Posts
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    BoGoF
    How can a crack be stable, by its very nature its a weak point and at some point its going to expand.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 1st Dec 17, 5:34 PM
    • 15,386 Posts
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    pinkshoes
    Once a screen has cracked, then it is a point of weakness, so many other things could cause this crack to grow.

    If it didn't happen in transit, then chances are the repair process would have worsened it.

    The £75 sounds very reasonable. You can't expect a new screen when it was already broken.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • codger
    • By codger 2nd Dec 17, 12:56 PM
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    codger
    JL's signing off on taking in your property for repair and its specific noting for the record of a pre-existing "a small crack" means your expectation that it would exercise due care whilst the property was out of your possession was perfectly reasonable. That reasonableness has been reciprocated by JL to the extent of an offer of £75.

    Any claim for compensation higher than that though will take you from the informality of two parties being reasonable in regard to each other's position to two parties in formal legal dispute arising from those positions. It's not for a thread like this to pretend it can foresee the outcome of that.

    What is clear is that the cost and time involved will add up to a total that's significantly greater than the £75 offered, and with no certainty of result. You would have to prove that in transporting the property to JL in the first place, you did not by that action inadvertently aggravate an acknowledged pre-existing weakness -- a difficult task, seeing as how JL is entitled to argue that though visible evidence of deterioration certainly occurred when the item was in its possession, the actual cause of that deterioration occurred earlier, when you were sending it / taking it to JL.

    It's unfortunate that time and circumstance seem to have conspired against both you and JL. The wisest course, even if the most reluctant, would seem to be to accept the £75 offer and put that sum towards the screen repair / replacement cost. Anything other than that, and you're at risk of being locked into a mightily expensive debate about materials science. . .
    • bris
    • By bris 2nd Dec 17, 1:11 PM
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    bris
    TBH you're lucky they even fixed it, physical damage like this is a warranty breaker anywhere else.


    The crack is obviously a weak point, this will be vulnerable during any transit, not a lot of blame here.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 2nd Dec 17, 3:28 PM
    • 11,597 Posts
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    unholyangel
    I've been on the phone to Citizens Advice. They have suggested that I can argue that the repair was not dealt with "reasonable care and skill" and that I am looking for reasonable damages to repair /compensate for the additional damage. The fact that I have no photographic evidence is a sticky point but the store have noted on our receipt "small crack in display" - We need to get an independent trader to determine what a small crack is and use that as our evidence.


    For those in similar situation who may have more evidence than we do - this information may prove useful

    Thanks for your suggestions.
    Originally posted by Mummy Jo
    Did CAB also tell you that it will be up to you to prove they haven't carried out the repair with reasonable care & skill and that even if you can prove that, the amount you'd be limited to claiming would likely be the difference in the laptop with a 2" crack compared to one with a 6" crack.

    I would suggest the worsening of the crack won't have made that much difference to the value.

    I would also suggest the causation was the pre-existing damage and think you'll have a hard time proving negligence on JL's part.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 2nd Dec 17, 3:54 PM
    • 26,214 Posts
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    forgotmyname
    Scratch a bottle or glass and the run it under some warm water then cold water repeatedly. It wont take long for it to break along the line of the scratch.

    Its only takes a scratch to the surface of glass to be unstable never mind a crack. Unless you drilled it to prevent the crack spreading it was going to get worse one day.
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
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