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  • FIRST POST
    • travelmonster
    • By travelmonster 1st Dec 17, 12:46 AM
    • 122Posts
    • 3Thanks
    travelmonster
    LED headlights
    • #1
    • 1st Dec 17, 12:46 AM
    LED headlights 1st Dec 17 at 12:46 AM
    Hey guys...

    To put in a LED white light as headlight in the car ? Would it just fit in where the standard bulb goes ? Or would it need a new led type socket ?
Page 2
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 1st Dec 17, 6:24 PM
    • 2,899 Posts
    • 3,916 Thanks
    George Michael
    Friend of mine is a highways lighting engineer, recently emailed this to me :
    Was looking at replacing some of my bulbs with LED on the car when I came across this, don't know if you were aware that it's illegal to fit led's to a vehicle that did not have them as original equipment, you can be prosecuted and it also makes your insurance invalid. I checked this with a traffic officer yesterday who confirmed that it is right
    Originally posted by Chrishazle
    Well, if the "traffic officer" doesn't know that something such as you describe can't invalidate your insurance, I wouldn't trust anything else that they say.

    If you have motor insurance then the insurer is legally required to provide 3rd party cover irrespective of what you do to your vehicle or how you behave on the road.
    • facade
    • By facade 1st Dec 17, 8:12 PM
    • 2,939 Posts
    • 1,497 Thanks
    facade
    If you have motor insurance then the insurer is legally required to provide 3rd party cover irrespective of what you do to your vehicle or how you behave on the road.
    Originally posted by George Michael

    But they can pursue you for anything that the Law required them to pay out if they wouldn't have had to otherwise because you were acting other than in accordance with the terms of your policy.
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
    • Chrishazle
    • By Chrishazle 1st Dec 17, 9:45 PM
    • 450 Posts
    • 266 Thanks
    Chrishazle
    Read the T&C's of your car insurance, you'll find something about maintaining the car in roadworthy condition - and if you fit LED lights to a car not designed for them, you are not doing that and your insurance is invalid. Chances are side and tail lights would not cause a problem, but headlights could/would. Fancy a driving ban and a big bill after an accident??
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 1st Dec 17, 11:58 PM
    • 4,171 Posts
    • 3,675 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    Read the T&C's of your car insurance, you'll find something about maintaining the car in roadworthy condition - and if you fit LED lights to a car not designed for them, you are not doing that and your insurance is invalid. Chances are side and tail lights would not cause a problem, but headlights could/would. Fancy a driving ban and a big bill after an accident??
    Originally posted by Chrishazle
    Read the Road Traffic Act 1988 S.148 (Avoidance of certain exceptions to policies or securities).

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/148

    It specifically states that any terms in the policy seeking to restrict or avoid liability for any of the reasons stated are of no effect. The reasons stated include (b) the condition of the vehicle.

    Legislation always trumps contract terms, so anything in the T&Cs saying your insurance will be void because of the condition / maintenance of the vehicle will not invalidate your insurance because the Road Traffic Act (which is what creates the requirement to be insured in the first place) says it won't. It's one of the biggest myths out there, repeated far too often even by people who really should know better.

    Note that only applies to the legally required part of the insurance - extras like own damage or fire / theft cover can be invalidated by the T&Cs.

    The insurer can also sue you to recover anything they pay out as a result of the above, but that doesn't alter the fact that your insurance is valid for legal purposes, so no points, no ban and no fine.
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 2nd Dec 17, 6:06 AM
    • 2,576 Posts
    • 2,192 Thanks
    Richard53
    I am a member of several motorcycle forums. Some bikers (often American, and what I call 'road warriors') ride with main beam on intentionally, day and night. They justify this by saying "if I dazzle them, at least they have seen me".


    I usually reply that they are talking about someone piloting a ton and a half of metal in their general direction. Is this a wise time to be blinding them temporarily?


    Making sure you don't dazzle other motorists is as much for your own safety as theirs.
    An hour alone spells freedom to the slave.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 2nd Dec 17, 8:54 AM
    • 13,264 Posts
    • 17,483 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    I am a member of several motorcycle forums. Some bikers (often American, and what I call 'road warriors') ride with main beam on intentionally, day and night. They justify this by saying "if I dazzle them, at least they have seen me".
    Originally posted by Richard53
    A similar reason, seemingly popular in the US Harley community, is used to justify ear splittingly loud exhausts. “At least they are aware of my presence”.
    Advice; it rhymes with mice. Advise; it rhymes with wise.
    • interstellaflyer
    • By interstellaflyer 2nd Dec 17, 9:10 AM
    • 1,653 Posts
    • 980 Thanks
    interstellaflyer
    A similar reason, seemingly popular in the US Harley community, is used to justify ear splittingly loud exhausts. “At least they are aware of my presence”.
    Originally posted by Gloomendoom
    That'll be 'Loud Pipes Save Lives' often used as excuse by inconsiderate bikers when people complain on our community Facebook page about motorcyclists ragging it round our estate on noisy bikes.
    I hate football and do wish people wouldn't keep talking about it like it's the most important thing in the world
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 2nd Dec 17, 10:45 AM
    • 7,942 Posts
    • 8,063 Thanks
    pogofish
    Friend of mine is a highways lighting engineer, recently emailed this to me :

    "Was looking at replacing some of my bulbs with LED on the car when I came across this, don't know if you were aware that it's illegal to fit led's to a vehicle that did not have them as original equipment, you can be prosecuted and it also makes your insurance invalid. I checked this with a traffic officer yesterday who confirmed that it is right!
    Originally posted by Chrishazle
    This is cobblers - Both the claims about OEM bulbs and about insurance..!

    The official position on insurance had been done so often now that there is really no excuse for anyone to be trotting-out this lie.

    As for bulbs - Its only illegal to replace certain lamps - ie those directly concerned with safety/visibility/signalling - any other/additional lamps are ancillary and can be replaced at will. Even your main beam is not subject to strict regulation, only your dipped and anything "below the bumper" is similarly unregulated - eg spots etc are fine so long as you respect the colour rules - and yes, many LEDs are probably too blue to be strictly legal.

    And no forward-facing Christmas trees!
    • Mr.Generous
    • By Mr.Generous 2nd Dec 17, 10:55 AM
    • 1,687 Posts
    • 2,527 Thanks
    Mr.Generous
    On the insurance point the other worry is that your insurer cancels your policy. Remember the question you always get asked ... Have you EVER had a policy cancelled...

    I bet if you say yes the chances of ever getting cheap cover are zero and the premium will go sky high.

    All for a LED bulb?
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 2nd Dec 17, 11:00 AM
    • 7,942 Posts
    • 8,063 Thanks
    pogofish
    Id like to think theres a benefit unless of course the benefit is dazzling other drivers.
    Originally posted by spadoosh
    Its a clearer/cleaner spectrum light, closer to the approx 5000 kelvins of natural light (Halogens are around 3000K) so better definition, colour and clarity and less stress on the eyes in most conditions/normal colour vision - Although halogens may still have the edge in thick fog?

    The dazzling element mostly comes from poor alignment though - not the lamp itself and can happen with any kind of poorly fitted lamp - even OEMs. IF you change lamps you should always re-check its alignment as well.

    Many LEDs actually output at over 5000K though, esp cheap ones, which is too far into the blue spectrum to be any way legal - and false claims about colour temperature are common. The 4000K of Nightbreakers/filtered lamps are a good compromise on colour temperature and fully road legal.
    Last edited by pogofish; 02-12-2017 at 11:18 AM.
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 2nd Dec 17, 11:13 AM
    • 7,942 Posts
    • 8,063 Thanks
    pogofish
    Wouldn't happen with an LED - The FSA position on roadworthiness and insurance is quite clear - The insurer would still have to provide RTA-level cover.

    On the insurance point the other worry is that your insurer cancels your policy. Remember the question you always get asked ... Have you EVER had a policy cancelled...

    I bet if you say yes the chances of ever getting cheap cover are zero and the premium will go sky high.

    All for a LED bulb?
    Originally posted by Mr.Generous
    • wgl2014
    • By wgl2014 2nd Dec 17, 11:44 AM
    • 423 Posts
    • 255 Thanks
    wgl2014
    I think the point being made was that in the event of a claim if the insurance inspected your car and found an undeclared modification (the bulbs) they could then potentially cancel the policy. You would still be covered third party for whatever claim was being made but would then be in the undesirable position of having to declare a cancelled policy to your next insurer.
    • maxmycardagain
    • By maxmycardagain 2nd Dec 17, 11:48 AM
    • 4,420 Posts
    • 3,677 Thanks
    maxmycardagain
    The high level rear LED brake lights are often a string of LEDs along a strip of printed circuit board. On one of our last cars it failed due to corrosion of the print board tracks, not an LED problem but lousy PCB coating.
    Originally posted by Frozen_up_north
    Not sure the high lever brake light is a legal requirement when the vehicle has 2 other working brake lights?
    Instead of picking fault, pick up a life........ you might like it
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 2nd Dec 17, 5:09 PM
    • 1,769 Posts
    • 1,210 Thanks
    Tarambor
    Not sure the high lever brake light is a legal requirement when the vehicle has 2 other working brake lights?
    Originally posted by maxmycardagain
    I can't be bothered to look through C&U regs but they could well be now for any vehicle from a certain date. I know with lorries the four mandatory mirrors increased to five a few years ago, the fifth one being on the front of the cab to cover the area directly in front of the vehicle.
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 2nd Dec 17, 5:37 PM
    • 760 Posts
    • 269 Thanks
    sevenhills
    Yet, 20 years later, LEDs have proven essential in reducing energy squandered by power-sapping filament light bulbs and many of us have invested in the technology to illuminate our homes and offices.
    As LEDs provide brighter and more energy efficient lighting, it is logical to enhance your car, by fitting LED bulbs to your car’s exterior lamps.
    Originally posted by Chrishazle
    Our lighting regulations are very poor, the wattage of a side light bulb, is that 10w, is very low and sometimes offers little illumination.
    When flashing LEDs were first used by cyclists, it was said that they were illegal. But the law has now been changed, because they are brighter/safer and better all round.
    I do find some LEDs dazzling, front and rear; again - very poor regulations.
    I have non-standard LED front side light bulbs, because they are better than the recommended bulbs.

    Having just had to use my jump leads to start a friends car, with the lights being used more in winter, do LEDs offer practical energy saving?

    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 2nd Dec 17, 5:48 PM
    • 13,264 Posts
    • 17,483 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    Our lighting regulations are very poor, the wattage of a side light bulb, is that 10w, is very low and sometimes offers little illumination.
    Originally posted by sevenhills
    Illumination of what?
    Advice; it rhymes with mice. Advise; it rhymes with wise.
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 2nd Dec 17, 5:53 PM
    • 760 Posts
    • 269 Thanks
    sevenhills
    Illumination of what?
    Originally posted by Gloomendoom
    They are hardly visible, compared to LEDs

    • Hermione Granger
    • By Hermione Granger 3rd Dec 17, 10:40 PM
    • 794 Posts
    • 1,231 Thanks
    Hermione Granger
    Our lighting regulations are very poor, the wattage of a side light bulb, is that 10w, is very low and sometimes offers little illumination.
    Originally posted by sevenhills
    Illumination of what?
    Originally posted by Gloomendoom
    The term "illumination" doesn't have to mean that something is being directly lit up by the lighting. It can also refer to something that is a source of light. (Such as the Blackpool illuminations).
    • Feral Moon
    • By Feral Moon 4th Dec 17, 4:29 AM
    • 2,750 Posts
    • 4,036 Thanks
    Feral Moon
    I have had to stop driving after dark because these lights are so dazzling. Some people are so selfish, they have no regard for others. Not so long ago, I saw a small car with 3 sets of bright headlights - madness!
    Originally posted by LadyDee
    Same here! So this time of year is incredibly isolating with being stuck at home from 4pm onwards
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 4th Dec 17, 11:37 AM
    • 760 Posts
    • 269 Thanks
    sevenhills
    Same here! So this time of year is incredibly isolating with being stuck at home from 4pm onwards
    Originally posted by Feral Moon
    I find bright lights dazzling, but not to that extent, maybe many do.

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