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  • FIRST POST
    • getting_a_grip
    • By getting_a_grip 30th Nov 17, 12:33 PM
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    getting_a_grip
    SiP, multiple CCJs and ludicrous fines
    • #1
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:33 PM
    SiP, multiple CCJs and ludicrous fines 30th Nov 17 at 12:33 PM
    Hi all,

    I am seeking advice. I rent a parking space and display my pass issued on the day I moved in. SiP constantly have been ticketing my car. After writing to them and being ignored, I found a CCJ on my history. This was appealed and set aside with no further action. Then I found another, which was passed to small claims (awaiting hearing), Then I found another CCJ, then another and so on. I didn't get post from SiP due to crappy circumstances and a vandalised postbox but informed them of an alternative address (which was ignored).

    My argument boils down to photographic evidence of having a pass, renting the space and basically having every right to be there in addition to evidence of clear and persistent ticketing against my displayed pass even to this day (this has been going on for 2 years). Gladstone's and SiP are digging in their heels and seeking damages and costs.

    Is there anything else I can do to support my argument? I've been unable to find legal help so i'm representing myself in this claim and all others.
Page 1
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 30th Nov 17, 12:51 PM
    • 1,144 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    • #2
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:51 PM
    • #2
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:51 PM
    Did you get your set aside fees back?

    You need to be raising woith the court that, instead of raising ONE claim, as they are reuqired to do, they have split this over multiple tickets.

    What does your rental agreement state about the need to display a permit, having to enter into a contract etc? EXACT wording, no paraphrasing.
    • getting_a_grip
    • By getting_a_grip 30th Nov 17, 1:03 PM
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    getting_a_grip
    • #3
    • 30th Nov 17, 1:03 PM
    • #3
    • 30th Nov 17, 1:03 PM
    It makes no mention of parking management, parking passes or entering in to any contract. SiP are claiming their signage states my agreement and I have a copy of their agreement on behalf of the building management firm (I think) on behalf of the landlords

    As far as I can see I am entitled to "quiet enjoyment" of the property I rent, their agreement with the property management firm states "(Legal action) Any action taken against a vehicle and an authorised Landlord representative decides to cancel it, this will be done immediately..." However I think the "authorised Landlord representitive" is in the pocket of SiP. A letter from _my_ landlord should be enough tho?

    I did not get the fees back the application stated I couldn't apply for them IIRC

    Yes, I'd like this dealt with as one case, one where abuse of process and harassment seems clear. Do you know of any case law or legislation requiring them to persue all these tickets as one claim?
    Last edited by getting_a_grip; 30-11-2017 at 1:09 PM.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 30th Nov 17, 1:23 PM
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    nosferatu1001
    • #4
    • 30th Nov 17, 1:23 PM
    • #4
    • 30th Nov 17, 1:23 PM
    What does your agreement state about your rights around parking. Does it mention an agreed space, etc?

    The application cost £255, you can get that fee waived or reduced if you qualify. If you WIN the set aside, then you can ask that the CLAIMANT pays your set aside costsa. I presume you did not ask for this.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 30th Nov 17, 1:23 PM
    • 1,812 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    • #5
    • 30th Nov 17, 1:23 PM
    • #5
    • 30th Nov 17, 1:23 PM
    Do you know of any case law or legislation requiring them to persue all these tickets as one claim?
    They should have but this is the scam they use. When you apply for the next one make sure their misuse of the system is brought to the judges attention. The principle is "Res Judicata" rather than a law. Example wording from one of the resident legal beagles [JohnErsh] who will be along later no doubt.

    This matter is already subject to separate proceedings issued by the claimant at the Northampton County Court under claim number XX17XXX. The Defendant avers that this part of the claim is duplicative of those existing proceedings, is vexatious in its current form and concerns issues likely to have been determined by another court by the date of trial. The claimant should not be permitted to bring this part of the claim.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • getting_a_grip
    • By getting_a_grip 30th Nov 17, 1:41 PM
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    getting_a_grip
    • #6
    • 30th Nov 17, 1:41 PM
    • #6
    • 30th Nov 17, 1:41 PM
    Well I have already had one CCJ set aside and struck out ... so does that mean the subsequent ones fall under that and should be struck out too? Even if they are for different Parking Charge Notices on different days?

    Fighting 4 CCJs from the same company, with who-knows-how-many-more to come is prohibitive
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 30th Nov 17, 1:52 PM
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    nosferatu1001
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 17, 1:52 PM
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 17, 1:52 PM
    Can you please be precise

    - How many claims do you have
    - how many have had a JUDGEMENT (the J part of CCJ) against you?
    - how many are still to be heard?

    Do you have proof you told SIP of your service address, and was this before or after the claims above? Obv if you otld them after that is less important than telling them beforehand

    What, exactly, does your rental agreement ALLOW when it comes to parking. No allocated space?? right to park one vehicle in X communal space? There must be something!
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 30th Nov 17, 2:04 PM
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    IamEmanresu
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 17, 2:04 PM
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 17, 2:04 PM
    Well I have already had one CCJ set aside and struck out ... so does that mean the subsequent ones fall under that and should be struck out too? Even if they are for different Parking Charge Notices on different days?

    Fighting 4 CCJs from the same company, with who-knows-how-many-more to come is prohibitive
    The set asides should be automatic based on the lack of service i.e the mail didn't get to you so you had no chance to defend.

    The issue of whether the £255 for each CCJ gets claimed back from SIP is down to the judge at the set-aside AND at a rehearing. Sometimes judges say they will reserve the decision for the rehearing.

    SIP don't bother arranging the rehearing and you are out £255 so you have to make a strong play at the set-aside about SIP's abuse of the court system as Res Judicata applies IF it is same car park, same company and similar issues i.e. they should have bundled them.

    But forget about all the legal nonsense and consider the matter logically. If the total amount owed to SIP is greater than £600 they can apply to have High Court Enforcement Officers visit - the nice guys from Channel 4 - and you end up paying the lot (and costs) irrespective of any defence you may have.

    So if you are willing to be turned over by SIP and their slimy solicitors, just ignore the CCJ's and wait for a knock on the door.
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 30-11-2017 at 2:17 PM.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 30th Nov 17, 2:19 PM
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    Half_way
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 17, 2:19 PM
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 17, 2:19 PM
    Well I have already had one CCJ set aside and struck out ... so does that mean the subsequent ones fall under that and should be struck out too? Even if they are for different Parking Charge Notices on different days?

    Fighting 4 CCJs from the same company, with who-knows-how-many-more to come is prohibitive
    Originally posted by getting_a_grip
    OK, but what does your rental/ lease say? this is important
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • getting_a_grip
    • By getting_a_grip 30th Nov 17, 2:45 PM
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    getting_a_grip
    So, my tenancy agreement says I rent "The Property" defined as "all, or any part of the dwelling-house, gardens, paths, driveways, fences, boundaries or aother outbuildings which form part of the let. Where Property forms only part of a larger premises, the letting includes the use, in common with others, of the communal access ways and other similar facilities". It should be noted land registry documents show the parking space as part of the let property. In addition my estate agent and landlord will confirm in writing I let the space as part of the property in good faith.

    Second, the current state of affairs is:
    - One CCJ set aside and not further pursued by SiP
    - One CCJ set aside and referred by judge to small claims, hearing next month
    - One CCJ which appeared recently, Gladstone's non-responsive to request for details of claim, appealing to have this set aside
    - Another CCJ same as the above

    Hope this helps
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 30th Nov 17, 3:17 PM
    • 1,754 Posts
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    Loadsofchildren123
    you need to counterclaim for a breach of S.1 of the Protection from Harassment Act


    It's outrageous the PPC and Gladstones have pursued two more CCJS AFTER the first was set aside, knowing that you never received the claims and the court has already determined that in identical circumstances you are entitled to a set aside


    Plus the res j principle that pursuing you for contractual breaches which arise from precisely the same circumstances and give rise to precisely the same monies being sought should be dealt with together, not in one claim after another.


    The reason they are doing that is to avoid paying bigger issue/hearing fees. The fees for issuing a claim are on a scale according to the value of the claim. If they lump them all together the issue fee will cost them more than issuing lots of smaller claims. You need to really stamp on them for this.


    Your tenancy is unclear: it doesn't define the property as including the parking space. So you must get a letter from your landlord saying that the tenancy includes the space.


    Why are they ticketing you if you have a permit? Are they saying the permit isn't valid?


    When precisely in this timeline did you inform them that they must use a different address? Were any of the proceedings issued AFTER you did this.


    When you apply to set aside, you MUST include in the application and application for your costs. If you apply to set aside the last 2 CCJs, make one combined application and ask that they are set aside and joined to the second set of proceedings (the one where the set aside's been granted and now you have to defend).


    Have you put in your defence of the second one yet? If not, include a counterclaim in it. If yes, when you apply to set aside the last two and join them all together, ask to amend your defence to include a counterclaim.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • getting_a_grip
    • By getting_a_grip 30th Nov 17, 3:24 PM
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    getting_a_grip
    I'm currently drawing up my defence for the second claim.

    This second claim is for a very early ticket just after I moved in. I informed them of the address shortly after the ticket on the windscreen but they continued to send demands to the wrong address.

    The 2 CCJ i'm about to appeal with N244 I have not done yet, I only discovered them this week. I'm unsure how to apply for these in relation to the first CCJ and the ongoing claim from the 2nd CCJ. As Gladstone's and SiP wont provide me with the details of these cases, I don't know the ticket dates on these. I only just found out the one for claim number (2) because they HAD to copy me in on their statement for the hearing. They basically tell me nothing until forced to.
    Last edited by getting_a_grip; 30-11-2017 at 3:26 PM.
    • getting_a_grip
    • By getting_a_grip 30th Nov 17, 3:26 PM
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    getting_a_grip
    In terms of why they ticket me ... no idea. I've had tickets saying "invalid pass", I've had tickets next to a pass saying "no pass" ... I have lost count of the amount of tickets. They (SiP) issued the permit before any of the tickets given!

    The initial pass issued to me was rubbish. A logo with a date scrawled on it that constantly fell off the windscreen, however I took photos of most tickets in situ showing the issue. Shortly after SiP changed the pass format and re-issued clearly because of overzealous parking wardens. Since the new pass has been issued, the wardens are less confused and i've not been ticketed.
    Last edited by getting_a_grip; 30-11-2017 at 3:47 PM.
    • getting_a_grip
    • By getting_a_grip 30th Nov 17, 3:27 PM
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    getting_a_grip
    My defence statement will contain a variant of:

    To date, SiP Parking Ltd and their representatives have persistently issued in excess of 15 tickets, acquired 4 County Court Judgements against me (2 set-aside and 2 under application). SiP Parking Ltd and their representatives have not responded to requests for clarification and evidence of any offense in this claim or any other and continued to issue new tickets against my vehicle. I believe the persistent flouting of fairness by SiP demonstrates a measurable abuse of process, lack of good faith and Harassment under Protection from Harassment Act 1997 as these cases should be handled as one disagreement; my right to park without being ticketed or prevented from enjoying my contracted entitlement from my Landlord.
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