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  • FIRST POST
    • marythemoose
    • By marythemoose 30th Nov 17, 11:17 AM
    • 17Posts
    • 1Thanks
    marythemoose
    MOT run out on broken down car involved in court case...?
    • #1
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:17 AM
    MOT run out on broken down car involved in court case...? 30th Nov 17 at 11:17 AM
    Hi, got a complicated problem I hope someone might be able to advise on...

    We bought a car in April this year that broke down after a week; dealer refused refund so taking to small claims court, court date in January 2018. Car has been parked in residential car park ever since, taxed and insured.

    However, the MOT ran out in August this year; I didn't realise until after it ran out.

    I'm hoping that, as it's taxed and insured (both of which I'm claiming back from the dealer) that it's OK where it is, but my partner is worried that, as the MOT has expired, the insurance is no longer valid, and therefore we are breaking the law by keeping it in a public/residential carpark.

    If we had a private driveway I'd have SORN'd it, but we don't, and I don't know of anywhere I can put it, especially as it's not moved for months and is essentially a write off.

    Anybody have any idea what we should do??

    Any advice gratefully received!

    Many thanks

    Robbie
Page 2
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 30th Nov 17, 3:05 PM
    • 2,452 Posts
    • 1,594 Thanks
    Car 54
    So it means (in the end) you now agree with my previous post?
    Originally posted by DoaM
    Yes indeed. Dementia setting in ....
    • bertiewhite
    • By bertiewhite 30th Nov 17, 3:22 PM
    • 728 Posts
    • 768 Thanks
    bertiewhite
    Why don't you think I'll get any money back??
    Originally posted by marythemoose
    Because of this:

    I caught the bus and met him in a supermarket car park
    Originally posted by marythemoose
    • marythemoose
    • By marythemoose 30th Nov 17, 3:37 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    marythemoose
    Well, the fact that he seems to have disappeared without leaving a forwarding address isn't a good start.

    The court can rule in your favour, but they can't make him pay up. You'll still have to track him down. It's unlikely he'll pay without your employing bailiffs, and even then there's no guarantee.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Really?? I mean that as an honest question if that's the case, it makes me wonder what was the point of taking him to court in the first place. I assumed that once the court has ruled in my favour, they would take care of recovering the funds from him in whatever way they could? Does it not become a criminal case if he just refuses to pay?

    From the tone of many of these replies I get the impression that I'm seen as a bit of an idiot for buying the car in the first place, but I'm self employed and without a car to work my family and I would be out on the streets so I had to take what I could get and hope for the best. I don't feel that some scumbag taking advantage of my desperation by selling me a dodgy car should be put down to my bad decisions; I only had bad decisions to choose from.

    Sorry for being defensive but this has been a nightmare for 9 months.

    Thanks for everyone's advice.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 30th Nov 17, 4:09 PM
    • 17,469 Posts
    • 11,694 Thanks
    molerat
    The court gave you the right to recover the money. They will not actually do anything about helping you recover it. It is down to you to take further enforcement action, at cost to you but can be added to the claim, by employing bailiffs. It is purely a civil matter and not criminal, any criminal action would be down to an organisation such as trading standards but even they would not help get your money back.
    Last edited by molerat; 30-11-2017 at 4:12 PM.
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    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 30th Nov 17, 4:32 PM
    • 6,387 Posts
    • 5,159 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    Car has been parked in residential car park ever since, taxed and insured.
    Originally posted by marythemoose
    If its permanently parked in a residential car park its highly unlikely anyone would question it being sorned.
    How private is this residential car park? I suspect you could safely argue it is parked off road and as you can demonstrate it has been immobile for months with the ongoing claim against the dealer and without any evidence of it being used on the road from traffic cameras etc its unlikely the police or dvla would aim to penalise you.

    As the dealer is clearly trying to avoid repaying you I would investigate your legal position if you dispose of the car. You cannot be expected to fund storage of it indefinitely when there is a limited chance of repayment.
    Last edited by Norman Castle; 30-11-2017 at 4:49 PM.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.
    • Head The Ball
    • By Head The Ball 30th Nov 17, 4:39 PM
    • 2,951 Posts
    • 6,762 Thanks
    Head The Ball
    I was without a car when we bought it (new car was needed to replace previous breakdown/write-off) so I caught the bus and met him in a supermarket car park; at the time it seemed he was doing me a favour by meeting near the bus stop, obviously in hindsight it meant I didn't know where he lived. Same when I collected the car.
    Originally posted by marythemoose

    I got a signature for one of the 'signed for' letters I sent, and he defended the claim made against him, but has since returned all letters from both myself and the court with 'no longer at this address'.
    Originally posted by marythemoose
    To what address did you send the letters?

    How did you find that address?

    Have you gone there to check if he does still live there by knocking on the door or by asking neighbours?
    Who'll remember the ones
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    • marythemoose
    • By marythemoose 30th Nov 17, 4:49 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    marythemoose
    To what address did you send the letters?

    How did you find that address?

    Have you gone there to check if he does still live there by knocking on the door or by asking neighbours?
    Originally posted by Head The Ball
    The car was advertised on eBay, but his address shown there was incomplete, only showing postcode. After I began legal proceedings I googled his trading name and found an alternative address with different postcode but in the same town. It was this second address that I got a signature from, and the address that I put on the claim, which the court presumably wrote to and to which he responded by defending the claim, on the ground of, I !!!! you not, 'car was sold as spares or repairs'. I haven't paid this address a visit.
    • marythemoose
    • By marythemoose 30th Nov 17, 4:53 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    marythemoose
    If its permanently parked in a residential car park its highly unlikely anyone would question it being sorned.
    How private is this residential car park? I suspect you could safely argue it is parked off road and as you can demonstrate it has been immobile for months with the ongoing claim against the dealer and without any evidence of it being used on the road from traffic cameras etc its unlikely the police or dvla would aim to penalise you.
    Originally posted by Norman Castle
    A lot of the houses in our estate are either not on the roadside or don't have driveways; instead there are car parks here and there for residents to park their cars in. The spaces are not numbered or otherwise allocated, and they are not private as far as I understand. There is, however, a sign saying 'no SORN vehicles allowed'. There was a white van parked in our car park for a few months before it got clamped and shortly after disappeared.
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 30th Nov 17, 5:12 PM
    • 6,387 Posts
    • 5,159 Thanks
    Norman Castle
    There is, however, a sign saying 'no SORN vehicles allowed'.
    Originally posted by marythemoose
    If there's a sign stating "No sorn vehicles" it probably private. The signs will be put in place by estate management to avoid the parking areas being used to store unused vehicles. Its likely to be legal to have a sorned vehicle there but you will have to contend with whoever manages the estate.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.
    • MX5huggy
    • By MX5huggy 30th Nov 17, 11:02 PM
    • 4,073 Posts
    • 2,658 Thanks
    MX5huggy
    Sell the car now. Put it on eBay no reserve, non runner buyer collects, trailer required.

    It’s of no use to you in the court case, and just costing you to keep it even more if you start paying for storage.

    I think you’ll get away with the no MOT issue.

    Watch Can’t Pay Take it Away channel for an insight to bailiffs remembering they only show the ones where they actually get to talk to someone. And the bailiffs are employed by the claimant.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 1st Dec 17, 8:53 AM
    • 3,567 Posts
    • 3,613 Thanks
    DoaM
    Sell the car now. Put it on eBay no reserve, non runner buyer collects, trailer required.

    It’s of no use to you in the court case, and just costing you to keep it even more if you start paying for storage.
    Originally posted by MX5huggy
    Sorry but this is bad advice. If the OP wins the court case then the vehicle will belong to the seller and must be returned.

    The best advice was mentioned earlier in the thread ... arrange a trailer and get the vehicle returned to the seller's forecourt. Add the cost of the transfer to the claim.
    Diary of a madman
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    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 1st Dec 17, 10:01 AM
    • 2,692 Posts
    • 1,935 Thanks
    BoGoF
    The best advice was mentioned earlier in the thread ... arrange a trailer and get the vehicle returned to the seller's forecourt. Add the cost of the transfer to the claim.
    Originally posted by DoaM
    What forecourt, it was bought in a car park.
    • wgl2014
    • By wgl2014 1st Dec 17, 10:04 AM
    • 408 Posts
    • 240 Thanks
    wgl2014
    From what's been posted the seller doesn't have a forecourt and there his current address is not known for sure. I wouldn't advise dumping the car outside what may now be an old address for them.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 1st Dec 17, 10:52 AM
    • 3,567 Posts
    • 3,613 Thanks
    DoaM
    What forecourt, it was bought in a car park.
    Originally posted by BoGoF
    Good point ... I'd forgotten that that was in this thread.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • pogofish
    • By pogofish 1st Dec 17, 11:01 AM
    • 7,909 Posts
    • 8,016 Thanks
    pogofish
    As it is private land, he doesn't need VED. Insurance depends upon whether it's regarded as a public place, which is more complex.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    If its a private car park, the owner's/managing agent's conditions may well include a requirement that any vehicle parked is taxed, insured and has an MOT if applicable. Which could cause less serious but still annoying problems for the OP. This is usually done precisely to stop people storing/old unroadworthy vehicles on their property.

    IIRC, a private car park would need to be gated-off/strictly restricted access in order for highway policing/insurance to not apply?
    Last edited by pogofish; 01-12-2017 at 11:04 AM.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 1st Dec 17, 11:05 AM
    • 2,452 Posts
    • 1,594 Thanks
    Car 54

    IIRC, a private car park would need to be gated-off/strictly restricted access in order for highway policing to not apply?
    Originally posted by pogofish
    Arguably for insurance (is it a public place?). Definitely not for MOT (it's not a road) or SORN (it's not maintained at public expense).
    • Rover Driver
    • By Rover Driver 1st Dec 17, 11:49 AM
    • 1,310 Posts
    • 599 Thanks
    Rover Driver
    IIRC, a private car park would need to be gated-off/strictly restricted access in order for highway policing/insurance to not apply?
    Originally posted by pogofish


    Not necessarily, it would depend on the actual car park if it is considered to be a public place or not.
    It is similar to the 'Except for Access' traffic signs, anyone can have the ability to access, but not have the authority to access.
    Last edited by Rover Driver; 01-12-2017 at 11:56 AM.
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