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    • marythemoose
    • By marythemoose 30th Nov 17, 11:17 AM
    • 17Posts
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    marythemoose
    MOT run out on broken down car involved in court case...?
    • #1
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:17 AM
    MOT run out on broken down car involved in court case...? 30th Nov 17 at 11:17 AM
    Hi, got a complicated problem I hope someone might be able to advise on...

    We bought a car in April this year that broke down after a week; dealer refused refund so taking to small claims court, court date in January 2018. Car has been parked in residential car park ever since, taxed and insured.

    However, the MOT ran out in August this year; I didn't realise until after it ran out.

    I'm hoping that, as it's taxed and insured (both of which I'm claiming back from the dealer) that it's OK where it is, but my partner is worried that, as the MOT has expired, the insurance is no longer valid, and therefore we are breaking the law by keeping it in a public/residential carpark.

    If we had a private driveway I'd have SORN'd it, but we don't, and I don't know of anywhere I can put it, especially as it's not moved for months and is essentially a write off.

    Anybody have any idea what we should do??

    Any advice gratefully received!

    Many thanks

    Robbie
Page 1
    • bertiewhite
    • By bertiewhite 30th Nov 17, 11:20 AM
    • 728 Posts
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    bertiewhite
    • #2
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:20 AM
    • #2
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:20 AM
    Can you move it (drive/tow/trailer) it back to the dealership so that it's off road?
    • marythemoose
    • By marythemoose 30th Nov 17, 11:25 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    marythemoose
    • #3
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:25 AM
    • #3
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:25 AM
    It won't start so can't drive it anywhere, and the dealer doesn't have a business address. In fact, one of the issues we've got is the court's letters have been returned as 'no longer at this address' so think he's done a runner.
    • knightstyle
    • By knightstyle 30th Nov 17, 11:39 AM
    • 4,485 Posts
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    knightstyle
    • #4
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:39 AM
    • #4
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:39 AM
    Is the car in your name? If so you MUST MOT it or SORN it, there is no middle ground. As it was not MOT'd you can expect a fine as it could have been used on the road.
    Not what you want to hear I am sure!
    Get MOT reminders here www.gov.uk/mot-reminder in future.
    • marythemoose
    • By marythemoose 30th Nov 17, 11:47 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    marythemoose
    • #5
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:47 AM
    • #5
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:47 AM
    Is the car in your name? If so you MUST MOT it or SORN it, there is no middle ground. As it was not MOT'd you can expect a fine as it could have been used on the road.
    Not what you want to hear I am sure!
    Get MOT reminders here www.gov.uk/mot-reminder in future.
    Originally posted by knightstyle
    No, not really :P thing is, I can't MOT it because it's broken down, and I can't SORN it because I've got nowhere to put it...
    • Stoke
    • By Stoke 30th Nov 17, 11:49 AM
    • 1,998 Posts
    • 842 Thanks
    Stoke
    • #6
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:49 AM
    • #6
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:49 AM
    You might have to get it towed to somewhere and then charge this back to him.
    • Ebe Scrooge
    • By Ebe Scrooge 30th Nov 17, 11:51 AM
    • 4,014 Posts
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    Ebe Scrooge
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:51 AM
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:51 AM
    as the MOT has expired, the insurance is no longer valid
    Originally posted by marythemoose

    This one comes up time and again. The lack of an MOT will not automatically invalidate the insurance. The insurance company may well try to use it to try and refuse a payout on a claim - but from a legal perspective your insurance is still valid.


    However, you do run the risk of being fined for keeping it on a "public road" ( which includes carparks ) without a valid MOT. As others have said, you really have only 2 choices - get it MOT'd, or SORN it and find somewhere off-road to store it.
    I may not know much about art, but I know what I like.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 30th Nov 17, 12:41 PM
    • 2,460 Posts
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    Car 54
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:41 PM
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:41 PM

    However, you do run the risk of being fined for keeping it on a "public road" ( which includes carparks ) without a valid MOT. As others have said, you really have only 2 choices - get it MOT'd, or SORN it and find somewhere off-road to store it.
    Originally posted by Ebe Scrooge
    Are you sure about car parks? The relevant MOT section (47) of the RTA refers specifically to "road", rather than the "road or other public place" to which the insuance section applies.

    As it is private land, he doesn't need VED. Insurance depends upon whether it's regarded as a public place, which is more complex.

    Anyway, since the seller appears to have done a runner, the best advice is to get rid sooner rather than later.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 30th Nov 17, 12:49 PM
    • 3,582 Posts
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    DoaM
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:49 PM
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:49 PM
    Surely VED (or SORN) is needed regardless? I agree that an MOT may not be needed if the vehicle is on private land, but VED (or SORN) is always needed?
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    • wgl2014
    • By wgl2014 30th Nov 17, 12:49 PM
    • 417 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    wgl2014
    As I understand it the relevant offence for not having an MOT refers to using the car on a road so not currently an issue for the OP.

    When is the tax and insurance due as this will be the time the car will need to be declared SORN?

    I would suggest either finding somewhere to store the car privately or getting rid. If the seller has done a runner don't expect everything to be sorted in January at court.
    Last edited by wgl2014; 30-11-2017 at 12:52 PM. Reason: Wording correction
    • bertiewhite
    • By bertiewhite 30th Nov 17, 12:54 PM
    • 728 Posts
    • 768 Thanks
    bertiewhite
    the dealer doesn't have a business address.
    Originally posted by marythemoose
    You must know where you bought it from surely?
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 30th Nov 17, 12:58 PM
    • 2,460 Posts
    • 1,598 Thanks
    Car 54
    Surely VED (or SORN) is needed regardless? I agree that an MOT may not be needed if the vehicle is on private land, but VED (or SORN) is always needed?
    Originally posted by DoaM
    VED is only required if the car is used on a road "maintainable at public expense". Not needed on a private road.
    • takman
    • By takman 30th Nov 17, 1:03 PM
    • 2,895 Posts
    • 2,407 Thanks
    takman
    No, not really :P thing is, I can't MOT it because it's broken down, and I can't SORN it because I've got nowhere to put it...
    Originally posted by marythemoose
    Is there any reason why you couldn't put the car into storage and then apply for SORN and claim back the cost in court. Although i don't think this is a good idea considering you don't even know where the dealer is and have no way to find them. Even if you win the case i doubt you will get the money from then from the sound of it.

    Why are you even keeping the car if you don't want to repair it? are you expecting to be able to return it to them sometime in the future?
    • marythemoose
    • By marythemoose 30th Nov 17, 2:20 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    marythemoose
    As I understand it the relevant offence for not having an MOT refers to using the car on a road so not currently an issue for the OP.

    When is the tax and insurance due as this will be the time the car will need to be declared SORN?

    I would suggest either finding somewhere to store the car privately or getting rid. If the seller has done a runner don't expect everything to be sorted in January at court.
    Originally posted by wgl2014
    Insurance expired in October and was automatically renewed, tax is being paid monthly DD.

    I'm looking into somewhere to have it stored now.
    • marythemoose
    • By marythemoose 30th Nov 17, 2:23 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    marythemoose
    You must know where you bought it from surely?
    Originally posted by bertiewhite
    I was without a car when we bought it (new car was needed to replace previous breakdown/write-off) so I caught the bus and met him in a supermarket car park; at the time it seemed he was doing me a favour by meeting near the bus stop, obviously in hindsight it meant I didn't know where he lived. Same when I collected the car.
    • marythemoose
    • By marythemoose 30th Nov 17, 2:27 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    marythemoose
    Is there any reason why you couldn't put the car into storage and then apply for SORN and claim back the cost in court. Although i don't think this is a good idea considering you don't even know where the dealer is and have no way to find them. Even if you win the case i doubt you will get the money from then from the sound of it.

    Why are you even keeping the car if you don't want to repair it? are you expecting to be able to return it to them sometime in the future?
    Originally posted by takman
    I'm looking into somewhere to store it now, with a view to claiming back costs as you say.

    I got a signature for one of the 'signed for' letters I sent, and he defended the claim made against him, but has since returned all letters from both myself and the court with 'no longer at this address'.

    Why don't you think I'll get any money back??

    I kept the car because from the start all we wanted was to return the car for a refund; I figured we could hardly get rid of the car if that was what we were asking for?
    • Rover Driver
    • By Rover Driver 30th Nov 17, 2:39 PM
    • 1,310 Posts
    • 599 Thanks
    Rover Driver
    VED is only required if the car is used on a road "maintainable at public expense". Not needed on a private road.
    Originally posted by Car 54


    Unless exempt, a vehicle is required to be licensed wherever it is located - s.29(1), Vehicles Excise & Registration Act 1994 'If a person uses, or keeps, a vehicle which is unlicensed he is guilty of an offence'.


    A SORN is one of the exemptions.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 30th Nov 17, 2:53 PM
    • 2,460 Posts
    • 1,598 Thanks
    Car 54
    Unless exempt, a vehicle is required to be licensed wherever it is located - s.29(1), Vehicles Excise & Registration Act 1994 'If a person uses, or keeps, a vehicle which is unlicensed he is guilty of an offence'.


    A SORN is one of the exemptions.
    Originally posted by Rover Driver
    Quite right, thanks. I should have added "but it needs to be SORNed".
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 30th Nov 17, 2:58 PM
    • 3,582 Posts
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    DoaM
    So it means (in the end) you now agree with my previous post?
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    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 30th Nov 17, 3:03 PM
    • 2,460 Posts
    • 1,598 Thanks
    Car 54
    I'm looking into somewhere to store it now, with a view to claiming back costs as you say.

    I got a signature for one of the 'signed for' letters I sent, and he defended the claim made against him, but has since returned all letters from both myself and the court with 'no longer at this address'.

    Why don't you think I'll get any money back??
    Originally posted by marythemoose
    Well, the fact that he seems to have disappeared without leaving a forwarding address isn't a good start.

    The court can rule in your favour, but they can't make him pay up. You'll still have to track him down. It's unlikely he'll pay without your employing bailiffs, and even then there's no guarantee.
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