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  • FIRST POST
    • Gazza 1967
    • By Gazza 1967 30th Nov 17, 1:45 AM
    • 8Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Gazza 1967
    UK Car Park Management ltd(Gladsone Solicitors)
    • #1
    • 30th Nov 17, 1:45 AM
    UK Car Park Management ltd(Gladsone Solicitors) 30th Nov 17 at 1:45 AM
    I received a parking fine from the above mentioned company and I originally ignored any correspondence.
    I had visited my local Tesco metro on the evening of 12/10/2016 and parked in front of the restaraunt next door.
    Unbeknown to myself a sign had been put up by uk car park management ltd.I was only in the store ten minutes.
    I received a letter from Gladstone Solicitors explaining that they were acting on the parking companies behalf and the letter was headed, letter before claim.
    They stated that i had previously been wrote to by Dept recovery plus requesting settlement of the outstanding parking charge and they have been instructed to recover the amount due to them.
    I then downloaded a template letter that I found on the internet and sent it to them.
    I received another letter exactly the same as the previous one a month or two later, so sent them the same reply.
    However I have just received a letter from them in which they have responded to the points I made in the template letter
    arguing their case and that if payment is not made within 30 days, further legal action will be taken.
    I am not sure what to do at this point and any help or advice, would be much appreciated.
Page 1
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 30th Nov 17, 3:09 AM
    • 1,807 Posts
    • 3,189 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #2
    • 30th Nov 17, 3:09 AM
    • #2
    • 30th Nov 17, 3:09 AM
    I am not sure what to do at this point and any help or advice, would be much
    Keep sending requests for an explanation for the basis of the claim under the Pre-Action Protocols (called PAP here). Search for the PAP letter from 1st October 2017. Get proof you sent it too.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • Gazza 1967
    • By Gazza 1967 30th Nov 17, 6:37 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Gazza 1967
    • #3
    • 30th Nov 17, 6:37 AM
    • #3
    • 30th Nov 17, 6:37 AM
    Costs schedule?
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 30th Nov 17, 7:06 AM
    • 1,807 Posts
    • 3,189 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #4
    • 30th Nov 17, 7:06 AM
    • #4
    • 30th Nov 17, 7:06 AM
    Costs schedule?
    Do you have a claim yet as Pre-Action is before a claim. Have we missed something?
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 30th Nov 17, 12:12 PM
    • 4,724 Posts
    • 3,053 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #5
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:12 PM
    • #5
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:12 PM
    Costs schedule?
    Originally posted by Gazza 1967
    IamEmanresu, I think he's reading your signature.
    .
    • Gazza 1967
    • By Gazza 1967 30th Nov 17, 2:52 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Gazza 1967
    • #6
    • 30th Nov 17, 2:52 PM
    Uk Car Parking Management(Gladstone)
    • #6
    • 30th Nov 17, 2:52 PM
    Hi please find below the letter that i sent twice to Gladstone.

    Please note, this is an open letter and I reserve the right to produce it to the court at the appropriate time, should the need arise.
    Firstly, I do not accept liability for the above parking charge and I have no intention of paying the money demanded by your client. Specifically, I do not accept that the charge demanded is in any way shape or form a genuine pre-estimate of loss. Further, I do not believe that your client has legal standing to pursue an action against me in its own name, since any loss (which is denied) would be the landholder's in any event. I am sure that you will have advised your client as to the recent cases in which parking companies have had similar claims dismissed owing to having no locus to bring a claim. For the above reasons, any court proceedings in connection with this matter will be vigorously defended.
    Second, should it be your client's intention to start court proceedings, you must first provide a Letter Before Claim which complies with the requirements of Annex A Para 2 of the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct. Your letter clearly does not meet those requirements.
    In particularly your attention is drawn to the Practice Direction requirement to utilise an appropriate form of ADR before starting court proceedings. In the circumstances I invite your client to refer this dispute to the Parking On Private Land appeals service ("POPLA"), which is the appropriate form of ADR set up by the parking industry for this precise situation.
    Please note: Notwithstanding the fact that any decision of POPLA is legally binding on the parking company, and not the motorist, in the spirit of exploring an amicable resolution of this dispute, I am willing to give an undertaking to be bound by the decision of POPLA, thus ensuring that this case will not proceed to court.
    A referral to POPLA will avoid your client incurring the fees and expenses set out in your letter, and perhaps more importantly will reduce the burden on the court (which, as you will be aware, is the reason for this Direction). Please do not seek to rely on any deadlines imposed by your client as POPLA has confirmed that it does not impose any time limit on an appeal to POPLA, and all that is required is for your client to issue a POPLA code.

    I would also remind you that a failure and/or refusal by your client to agree to my offer of both parties abiding by a POPLA decision would be clear evidence of your client's failure to mitigate its alleged loss.
    Should your client reject my offer to refer this dispute to ADR and instead chooses to instruct you to issue court proceedings, I shall invite the court to stay the case and make an order referring the case to POPLA. Further I shall strenuously resist any application for costs that your client may wish to make, owing to its failure to mitigate, and shall instead make an application for my own wasted costs according to the provisions of Schedule 4 of the Practice Direction and CPR 27.14.
    In the meantime, and in the absence of a compliant Letter Before Claim, you should place a note on your file to the effect that this charge is disputed and your firm is required to cease and desist all further contact with me. For the avoidance of doubt, the same applies to the debt collection agency, referred to in your letter.
    Finally, please also note that should your firm issue court proceedings on behalf of your client, without first complying with all steps set out in the Practice Direction on pre-action conduct, I shall make an immediate complaint to the Solicitors Regulation Authority for breach of the Principles contained in the SRA Handbook version 8, published on 1st October 2013.

    I trust that I have made myself clear, and I suggest that you take your client's further instructions.

    Yours faithfully

    tHANKS
    The reply i received was as follows,

    We appologise for the delay in response, however the matter has been on hold pending our response and therefore we trust you have suffered no prejudice.

    We have responded to your points in turn and to assist have used sub-headings.

    The amount of the charge

    The charge sought is industry standard and is set at a rate so as to suitably satisfy our clients legitimate interest.In the case of parkingeye v Beavis 2015 it was held that an £85.00 charge was neither extravagant nor unconscionable.The accredited trade associations of which parking operarors must be a member in order to apply for dvla data prescribe a maximum charge of £100.Our clients charges are within this level.The charge is not, therefore, excessive.

    The recent decision of the supreme court also made it clear that the charges are not penal nor do they have to be reflective of the parking operators loss.Furthermore, they are entitled to be at a level that provides a deterrent effect.

    Authority to enforce charges.

    As the contract is between you and our client, our client does have the authority to enforce parking charges.Both VCS v HM Revenue & Customs (2013) and parking eye v Beavis (2015) made it clear that a contracting party need not show they have a right to do what they have promised in the performance of any other contract, nor is (in the case of the parking operator) the agreement between operator and landowner of any relevance.In any event, and without concession, our client did have authority from the landowner to operate on the land.Evidence of this is commercially sensitive, but will be provided if the court request it.

    The letter before the claim.

    The letter before the claim sent to you ( amongst other previous correspondence) contained.

    The date the charge was issued.
    The parking charge notice number.
    The location of the charge(the relevant land)
    The amount outstanding.
    Details of the claimant, and that the balance relates to unpaid parking charge.

    Without concession, if there has been any minor deviation from the civil procedure rules then it is within the tolerances provided therin.Our client has, at all times, acted in a proportionate manner.

    The Appeal.

    You have asked to appeal to the parking on private land appeals service (POPLA). You should be aware that POPLA is the appeals service for those parking operators that are members of the British Parking Association, of which our client is not.Our client is a member of the International Parking Community and their appeals service is known as the Independent Appeals Service(the IAS).You were offered the opportunity to appeal to them, but chose not to.

    The contract.

    Our client relies on the case of Parking Eye v Beavis 2015. i n that case it was accepted as an established principle that a valid contract can be made by an offer in the form of the terms and conditions set out on the sign, and accepted by the drivers actions as prescribed therein.

    The signs of the land are clear and unambiguous.Our client has photographs that prove the signs were displayed on the land at the time your vehicle was parked.By parking in the manner in which you did, the charge was properly incurred.It is disproportionate to produce such evidence at this stage, although we confirm that copies of the contract, details of the signs and a site plan will be included as evidence should as claim be issued.

    We trust this answers your questions

    In the event payment is not made in the next 30 days further legal action will be taken.

    the letter was dated 20/11/2017, so i am not sure what i should do now.

    Again any help would be much appreciated.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Gazza 1967; 30-11-2017 at 3:19 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 30th Nov 17, 2:58 PM
    • 4,724 Posts
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    KeithP
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 17, 2:58 PM
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 17, 2:58 PM
    Gazza, it's probably best if you remove your full name from that post.

    The parking companies trawl forums like this waiting for people to trip themselves up.

    Unfortunately your LBC rebuttal has a number of flaws.

    You now know that PoPLA isn't applicable, but you should also note that there hasn't been an 'Annex A' in the Practice Direction for a number of years.


    On what date did you get that Letter Before Claim from them?
    Last edited by KeithP; 30-11-2017 at 3:07 PM.
    .
    • Gazza 1967
    • By Gazza 1967 30th Nov 17, 3:19 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Gazza 1967
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 17, 3:19 PM
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 17, 3:19 PM
    Thanks,

    The letter before the claim, was dated 12/09/2017.
    • Gazza 1967
    • By Gazza 1967 30th Nov 17, 5:44 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Gazza 1967
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 17, 5:44 PM
    Uk Car Parking Management(Gladstone)
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 17, 5:44 PM
    Any help out there.?
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 30th Nov 17, 6:21 PM
    • 10,250 Posts
    • 9,381 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    I fear that your letter to Gladstones will simply indicate that you are copying from the internet parrot fashion with no real knowledge about what you have written. Could indicate to them an easy win in court.

    Come back when they have taken it further for specific help. Too mush wrong with what you have done so far to waste time correcting it.
    • Gazza 1967
    • By Gazza 1967 30th Nov 17, 6:46 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Gazza 1967
    Uk Car Parking Management(Gladstone)
    Thanks for the reply,

    Judging by their last letter that i have put on, will the next one be court proceedings and going off your response is it worth me arguing any further, or would it be better just to pay, as obviously i have dealt with it wrong.
    • Gazza 1967
    • By Gazza 1967 30th Nov 17, 7:03 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Gazza 1967
    Uk Car Parking Management(Gladstone)
    Thanks for the reply,

    Judging by their last letter that i have put on, will the next one be court proceedings and going off your response is it worth me arguing any further, or would it be better just to pay, as obviously i have dealt with it wrong.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 30th Nov 17, 7:06 PM
    • 6,448 Posts
    • 8,249 Thanks
    beamerguy
    I fear that your letter to Gladstones will simply indicate that you are copying from the internet parrot fashion with no real knowledge about what you have written. Could indicate to them an easy win in court.

    Come back when they have taken it further for specific help. Too mush wrong with what you have done so far to waste time correcting it.
    Originally posted by Guys Dad
    I think you are right GD but at least Gladstones will
    know the OP is getting help

    As far as "parrot fashion", surely Gladstones invented
    that one with the rubbish they come out with
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 30th Nov 17, 7:30 PM
    • 6,448 Posts
    • 8,249 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Thanks for the reply,

    Judging by their last letter that i have put on, will the next one be court proceedings and going off your response is it worth me arguing any further, or would it be better just to pay, as obviously i have dealt with it wrong.
    Originally posted by Gazza 1967
    You know better than that, paying a scammer only supports
    them scamming other people and you don't want that.

    They well may try court but they have to follow the new
    procedure to the letter

    As you will see many times on here, Gladstones are
    highly incompetent, the courts know this, the courts do
    not like their time being wasted and that sums up Gladstones

    Let a judge decide, if you hear further come back here
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 1st Dec 17, 10:55 AM
    • 1,136 Posts
    • 1,164 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Noone ever said pay up. Why do posters keep jumping to that conclusion?!?!

    Your LBA response was wrong, but so what? It doesnt mean they will win, it doesnt make your defence weaker, etc.

    Now, get your head into the NEWBIES thread, on the FIRST PAGE of this forum, and start reading. You MUST understand that GS are a factory, applying NO THOUGHT TO ANYTHING, and a claim will likely have followed anyway, regardless of what you sent them. With preparation we help people win against GS over 90% of the time.
    • Curly girly
    • By Curly girly 2nd Dec 17, 7:02 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Curly girly
    I also received a PCN from these cowboys at the same site. The LA got involved following complaints from members of the public & additional signage went up to the entrance of the car park around the 28th October. Myself and others are using this as an admission of guilt by UKCPM so mention this in your response.
    • Gazza 1967
    • By Gazza 1967 6th Dec 17, 8:45 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Gazza 1967
    Uk Car Parking Management(Gladstone)
    I have lost the photographic evidence of the car being parked up and was considering sending them a letter, asking for a copy and any other relevant evidence.
    do you think this would be the correct way to move on, as i am thinking it would delay things further and i will need the photographs as proof to challenge them, if it goes to court.

    Thanks.
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