Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • keveen
    • By keveen 29th Nov 17, 9:57 PM
    • 123Posts
    • 66Thanks
    keveen
    NHS Penalty Charge Notice received - another victim
    • #1
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:57 PM
    NHS Penalty Charge Notice received - another victim 29th Nov 17 at 9:57 PM
    What a nightmare. On my last visit to the dentist I filled in the usual form and after treatment took it down to the reception. On previous visits I had been getting Pension Credit Guarantee so didn't have to pay but now I am getting a State Pension and thought I would have to pay something. At the desk they said that's it, nothing to pay. I had not ticked any of the exemption boxes so I assumed it was because I was on a Pension and thought nothing of it. Mistake! I received a Penalty Notice for £100 telling me that I had falsely tcked the Income Support box. I have NEVER claimed Income Support and am not stupid so if I wanted to cheat I would have ticked the Pension Credit box. However I did not tick anything - and certainly no way would I have used that option as I am on a Pension!! They refuse to accept that there must have been a mistake somewhere. The only explanation I can think of is that someone in the office covering their backs ticked that box but of course who knows. All I know is that it was not me! I have refused to pay and said take me to court hoping a judge will see sense. I refuse to pay for a penalty for something I did not do! Besides £100 is a lot of money for someone on a State Pension and who has done no wong!

    And no I have never cheated and why would I start now when the charge is only going to be about £35. And besides a friend of mine used to work in that office and told me about the new checks. He left cos it was so depressing!

    I looked again at the form that I had to fill in and there is no way I would have accidentally ticked the IS box.
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
Page 1
    • venison
    • By venison 29th Nov 17, 10:15 PM
    • 1,352 Posts
    • 1,441 Thanks
    venison
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 10:15 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 10:15 PM
    You need to explain FULLY to the people who issued the notice tell them you are fully prepared to pay the £35 rather than say take me to court.
    I am now a Board Guide on the Credit card board and the Loan board and Benefits board (But give me time to learn the ropes thanks).
    • keveen
    • By keveen 29th Nov 17, 10:24 PM
    • 123 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    keveen
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 10:24 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 10:24 PM
    Yes I did that first politely setting out what actually happened. 2nd email from them refused to consider my explanation so I said see you in court - which I will do as I have not done anything wrong. I would rather have a judge decide. Of course I said I was happy to pay the dental charges.
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 30th Nov 17, 7:55 AM
    • 4,242 Posts
    • 4,407 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #4
    • 30th Nov 17, 7:55 AM
    • #4
    • 30th Nov 17, 7:55 AM
    Yes £100 is a lot of money for somebody on a pension, but the likely end result of taking this to court is a much higher figure. I don't doubt that you are correct in saying you didn't tick anything, but proving that is going to be damn nigh impossible.
    The most likely culprit is somebody in the dentist practice who did so because you did have exemption in the past.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 30th Nov 17, 8:08 AM
    • 3,130 Posts
    • 4,159 Thanks
    Nick_C
    • #5
    • 30th Nov 17, 8:08 AM
    • #5
    • 30th Nov 17, 8:08 AM
    Yes £100 is a lot of money for somebody on a pension, but the likely end result of taking this to court is a much higher figure. I don't doubt that you are correct in saying you didn't tick anything, but proving that is going to be damn nigh impossible.
    The most likely culprit is somebody in the dentist practice who did so because you did have exemption in the past.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    I doubt that you will be prosecuted for this.

    If you are, it is for the prosecution to prove, beyond all reasonable doubt, that you are guilty.

    I would suggest that you send a cheque for £35 to the office that issued the penalty notice, with a covering letter saying you are not accepting the penalty but are offering the amount that you should have paid if their contractor had not wrongly advised you.

    Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
    Last edited by Nick_C; 30-11-2017 at 8:11 AM.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 30th Nov 17, 8:51 AM
    • 4,242 Posts
    • 4,407 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #6
    • 30th Nov 17, 8:51 AM
    • #6
    • 30th Nov 17, 8:51 AM

    I would suggest that you send a cheque for £35 to the office that issued the penalty notice, with a covering letter saying you are not accepting the penalty but are offering the amount that you should have paid if their contractor had not wrongly advised you.
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    But that isn't the situation. The OP is saying they didn't tick the box, not that they were advised wrongly and ticked the box. If somebody at the dentist surgery ticked it without the OP knowledge it is potentially a fraudulent act on the part of the surgery. The OP might have already paid for treatment and the surgery is attempting to obtain another payment from government.
    I'm not saying that is the case, but it is a possible scenario.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 30th Nov 17, 9:02 AM
    • 3,130 Posts
    • 4,159 Thanks
    Nick_C
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 17, 9:02 AM
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 17, 9:02 AM
    But that isn't the situation.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    The OP said they were informed by the Dental Surgery that there was nothing to pay. So they are wrongly advised.

    No one on here is suggesting that the OP ticked a box incorrectly.

    It might be fraud by the surgery. It is more likely that someone working there noticed that an exemption form had not been fully completed so tried to correct it.
    • bspm
    • By bspm 30th Nov 17, 9:12 AM
    • 445 Posts
    • 693 Thanks
    bspm
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 17, 9:12 AM
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 17, 9:12 AM
    Have you contacted the Dental Surgery about this? That would have been my first priority if I had not ticked a box, after all, someone has ticked it.
    • keveen
    • By keveen 30th Nov 17, 10:10 AM
    • 123 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    keveen
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 17, 10:10 AM
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 17, 10:10 AM
    Contacted the surgery today - manager not in till this afternoon.
    It is more likely that someone working there noticed that an exemption form had not been fully completed so tried to correct it.
    That's what I think. It is difficult to get the tick box people to listen to reason and logic. Why would I tick Income Support when all this time I have been on Pension Credit Guarantee. If I wanted to cheat I would have continued with the one I might still very well be entitled to but definitely not IS!! Because of my age that would of course have raised alarm bells because you can get Pension Credit not IS at 60, especially as I was a carer at the time too.
    This is one of those exceptions that they can't cope with. Most people are saying oh sorry I thought I was still entitled to JSA or whatever. They are not saying what I am saying - no I did not tick ANY box.
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • keveen
    • By keveen 30th Nov 17, 2:55 PM
    • 123 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    keveen
    Arrogant b***. My appeal was already rejected with the same mindless logic. However I was right and they were wrong so a 2 fingers complaint is on its way.

    What happened was that my dentist assumed I was still on a benefit and gave me the usual but wrong form which I signed and I suppose they selected even the wrong option on the drop down list on their software. Easily done. they are now writing to the NHS office concerned. I don't blame my dentist at all. People can make mistakes but not in the Bureaucrats world. Ignorant arrogant people working there. All's well that ends well.
    A more vulnerable older person would be under extreme stress because of their intransigent attitude. Not right.
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 30th Nov 17, 5:15 PM
    • 1,227 Posts
    • 1,011 Thanks
    Comms69
    Arrogant b***. My appeal was already rejected with the same mindless logic. However I was right and they were wrong so a 2 fingers complaint is on its way.

    What happened was that my dentist assumed I was still on a benefit and gave me the usual but wrong form which I signed and I suppose they selected even the wrong option on the drop down list on their software. Easily done. they are now writing to the NHS office concerned. I don't blame my dentist at all. People can make mistakes but not in the Bureaucrats world. Ignorant arrogant people working there. All's well that ends well.
    A more vulnerable older person would be under extreme stress because of their intransigent attitude. Not right.
    Originally posted by keveen
    So it's the 'bureacrats' fault your dentist made a mistake?..... baffled you will be!
    • nannytone
    • By nannytone 30th Nov 17, 5:29 PM
    • 12,228 Posts
    • 18,161 Thanks
    nannytone
    if you knew you were not eligable for free treatment ... Why didnt you pay on the dat?
    • keveen
    • By keveen 30th Nov 17, 5:43 PM
    • 123 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    keveen
    No it is the intransigent dismissive attitude of the agency staff who presume guilt and who don't listen or dismiss everything I said in my defence which turns out to be true.

    I didn't pay because the desk staff said I didn't have to because as it turns out they thought I had an exemption. But I didn't know that was the reason at the time.
    As stated inmy first post!
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • nannytone
    • By nannytone 30th Nov 17, 5:54 PM
    • 12,228 Posts
    • 18,161 Thanks
    nannytone
    you are the one that signs.

    regardless of what 'the staff' say, you have the ability to read the form and choose to sing.

    you signed and you were not entitled so you need to pay
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 30th Nov 17, 6:17 PM
    • 3,130 Posts
    • 4,159 Thanks
    Nick_C
    you are the one that signs.

    regardless of what 'the staff' say, you have the ability to read the form and choose to sing.

    you signed and you were not entitled so you need to pay
    Originally posted by nannytone
    The NHS Web site states "Tell your dental practice you want NHS treatment when you make an appointment. When you arrive for your appointment, you'll be given a form to fill out – if you do not have to pay, put a cross in the appropriate box."

    OP says she signed a form but didn't tick any of the boxes.

    If the practice printed off the form with a box pre ticked, then OP should have spotted that and corrected it. But that is pure speculation.

    Do you have a thorough understanding of how these forms are produced? (I don't)
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 30th Nov 17, 6:23 PM
    • 4,242 Posts
    • 4,407 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    you are the one that signs.

    regardless of what 'the staff' say, you have the ability to read the form and choose to sing.

    you signed and you were not entitled so you need to pay
    Originally posted by nannytone
    The OP didn't say they didn't sign the form. They are saying they didn't tick any of the boxes for free treatment. If the surgery staff ticked one of the boxes after the OP had signed the form how is the OP supposed to know that? Psychic powers??
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 30th Nov 17, 6:33 PM
    • 4,691 Posts
    • 2,971 Thanks
    Darksparkle
    Even if the dentist completed the form incorrectly, it’s the patients responsibility to know if they are exempt. You say yourself you assumed you were because of your state pension, you should have actually checked.
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 30th Nov 17, 6:35 PM
    • 4,691 Posts
    • 2,971 Thanks
    Darksparkle
    The OP didn't say they didn't sign the form. They are saying they didn't tick any of the boxes for free treatment. If the surgery staff ticked one of the boxes after the OP had signed the form how is the OP supposed to know that? Psychic powers??
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    Post 10 does.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 30th Nov 17, 7:27 PM
    • 3,130 Posts
    • 4,159 Thanks
    Nick_C
    Even if the dentist completed the form incorrectly, it’s the patients responsibility to know if they are exempt. You say yourself you assumed you were because of your state pension, you should have actually checked.
    Originally posted by Darksparkle
    When OP signed the form, had a box claiming an exemption been ticket?

    If you are saying it had, how do you know this?
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 30th Nov 17, 7:32 PM
    • 1,822 Posts
    • 3,801 Thanks
    IAmWales
    Who ticked the box is largely irrelevant, as OP signed to say he was eligible for free treatment. As well as that, he did in fact fail to pay!

    "They ticked the wrong box" is not a valid defence to failing to pay the charge.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

5,741Posts Today

6,897Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • I realised I forgot in my links earlier. 1. Help to Buy ISAs, how they work and best buys...? https://t.co/BSCNPeqiVF

  • RT @whatdawndid: Thanks to uncle @MartinSLewis I just received £200 back, just like that from the student loan company! Turns out that the?

  • RT @LaraLewington: Shocked and saddened by Cheggers news. Working with him on It?s A Knockout was my 1st job in telly when I was just 19. H?

  • Follow Martin