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  • FIRST POST
    • longleggedhair
    • By longleggedhair 29th Nov 17, 8:20 PM
    • 278Posts
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    longleggedhair
    Sharedealing & bank account forced closure.
    • #1
    • 29th Nov 17, 8:20 PM
    Sharedealing & bank account forced closure. 29th Nov 17 at 8:20 PM
    ive held a bank account and (non ISA) sharedealing account with Haliax for about 10 years.

    About six months ago I decided to move my ISA to Haliax because they were cheaper than the provider I was using, so I transferred across about £70,000 worth of shares. I've been doing a bit of simplification of my finances and selling some of my shares I held in my non ISA account to repurchase in the ISA because of the changes to the dividend allowance.

    Out of the blue about two weeks ago I had a letter from them saying they could "no longer offer me a sharedealing service" and giving me 60 days to move the account despite complaints they have refused to tell me why...so I thought b****r them so I've moved the account back to my old provider!

    Out of the blue today I've received another letter telling me they are closing my bank account in 65 days. I'm not that bothered as I only used it for the £3 monthly bonus.

    However I can only assume they suspect me of some kind of fraudulent activity (which I can categorically say I have never and would never be involved in-I'm often accused of being too honest!) however as they won't tell me what my crime is I cannot defend myself.

    I usually would let something like this worry me but I haven't been that bothered, perhaps just a little mystified, and as I said I am simplifying my finances at the minute so it gets rid of a couple of accounts I'm not that bothered about anyway....however I am concerned that they can do this without any explanation, and also worried it may have an impact on the accounts I do actually use with my main bank.

    I wonder if anyone had any thoughts or insight as to why they have done this and what I should do? Thanks.
    Last edited by longleggedhair; 29-11-2017 at 8:26 PM.
Page 1
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 29th Nov 17, 9:29 PM
    • 10,803 Posts
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    bigadaj
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:29 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:29 PM
    No one will know apart from Halifax and they won't tell you.

    Have you checked your credit files with the three providers, also worth checking with cifas or national hunter to see if they have anything.
    • longleggedhair
    • By longleggedhair 29th Nov 17, 9:35 PM
    • 278 Posts
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    longleggedhair
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:35 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:35 PM
    I have checked my credit file (perfect credit history) no cifas marker.
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 30th Nov 17, 9:45 AM
    • 11,727 Posts
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    Voyager2002
    • #4
    • 30th Nov 17, 9:45 AM
    • #4
    • 30th Nov 17, 9:45 AM
    All that you can do is make a formal complaint and then escalate to the ombudsman. That way, someone impartial will look at their reasons and decide whether they have treated you fairly.

    So you must be sure to include in your complaint letter something about them not treating you fairly. They are obliged to do so, although they have absolute discretion to decide who they do or do not want to have as a customer.
    • longleggedhair
    • By longleggedhair 30th Nov 17, 12:24 PM
    • 278 Posts
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    longleggedhair
    • #5
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:24 PM
    • #5
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:24 PM
    From doing more research, it's seems many people who move cash in and out of their accounts to trigger the bonus payments/interest have faced the same problem, entirely as I expected. I will make a complaint/contact the ombudsman if only to extract some final cash from them.
    • Heng Leng
    • By Heng Leng 30th Nov 17, 2:02 PM
    • 4,279 Posts
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    Heng Leng
    • #6
    • 30th Nov 17, 2:02 PM
    • #6
    • 30th Nov 17, 2:02 PM
    They can close your accounts (with the requisite notice - usually 60 days) without any comeback.

    Obviously, complain if you so wish but if they've followed the closure procedure in the T&Cs of then you've not really got a valid complaint.
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 30th Nov 17, 2:27 PM
    • 11,727 Posts
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    Voyager2002
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 17, 2:27 PM
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 17, 2:27 PM
    They can close your accounts (with the requisite notice - usually 60 days) without any comeback.

    Obviously, complain if you so wish but if they've followed the closure procedure in the T&Cs of then you've not really got a valid complaint.
    Originally posted by Heng Leng
    Indeed... but they do still have a duty to treat customers fairly. Since they allowed the OP to move his sharedealing account to them, something that presumably involved paying fees, and only then closed it, one could argue that they were failing in this duty.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 30th Nov 17, 2:41 PM
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    bowlhead99
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 17, 2:41 PM
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 17, 2:41 PM
    Out of the blue today I've received another letter telling me they are closing my bank account in 65 days. I'm not that bothered as I only used it for the £3 monthly bonus.
    Originally posted by longleggedhair
    also worried it may have an impact on the accounts I do actually use with my main bank.
    any thoughts or insight as to why they have done this
    So what you're saying is that you do not use the account, as all your real banking is elsewhere, except you manipulate the balance within it through a deposit and withdrawal process to trigger them giving you a £3 reward month after month without you actually using the account as a normal current account or using any of the banking services they would hope to have sold you.

    It's not particularly difficult to see why they no longer want to spend their resources on maintaining an account for you, when the only commercial purpose of your transactions are to trigger them paying you a reward to thank you for your business. And the business you are giving them is merely the opportunity to accept cash from you and immediately repay it to you at their expense.

    If I were a bank I wouldn't want your business because either
    - you are a money launderer or terrorist who is seeking to obscure the paper trail of the proceeds or fundraising for their crimes, by depositing and immediately removing cash electronically; or

    - you are someone taking the mickey out of their reward for loyal customers by holding an account with them and funding it temporarily from time to time, simply so that they pay you a cash reward for having the account while they incur all the costs of the account being open.

    That's not a very attractive customer either way. If were them I would look into ending the customer relationship.

    From doing more research, it's seems many people who move cash in and out of their accounts to trigger the bonus payments/interest have faced the same problem,
    Originally posted by longleggedhair
    Query solved then, you can see why they would do it.

    entirely as I expected.
    So you can understand why they might want to do it, and you would expect them to want to do it...
    will make a complaint/contact the ombudsman
    ...which you know to be a frivolous and/or vexatious complaint because you do not genuinely fail to understand why they have taken the action they have taken, nor dispute that they are allowed to do it under the account terms...

    if only to extract some final cash from them.
    ... You are going to complain that they have done something quite reasonable so that they might give you more free money in the hope that you do not take your frivolous complaint to the ombudsman who will charge them a few hundred pounds to look at the complaint before he later judges it to be groundless.

    Great.
    • longleggedhair
    • By longleggedhair 30th Nov 17, 2:59 PM
    • 278 Posts
    • 345 Thanks
    longleggedhair
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 17, 2:59 PM
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 17, 2:59 PM
    So what you're saying is that you do not use the account, as all your real banking is elsewhere, except you manipulate the balance within it through a deposit and withdrawal process to trigger them giving you a £3 reward month after month without you actually using the account as a normal current account or using any of the banking services they would hope to have sold you.

    It's not particularly difficult to see why they no longer want to spend their resources on maintaining an account for you, when the only commercial purpose of your transactions are to trigger them paying you a reward to thank you for your business. And the business you are giving them is merely the opportunity to accept cash from you and immediately repay it to you at their expense.

    If I were a bank I wouldn't want your business because either
    - you are a money launderer or terrorist who is seeking to obscure the paper trail of the proceeds or fundraising for their crimes, by depositing and immediately removing cash electronically; or

    - you are someone taking the mickey out of their reward for loyal customers by holding an account with them and funding it temporarily from time to time, simply so that they pay you a cash reward for having the account while they incur all the costs of the account being open.

    That's not a very attractive customer either way. If were them I would look into ending the customer relationship.


    Query solved then, you can see why they would do it.


    So you can understand why they might want to do it, and you would expect them to want to do it...

    ...which you know to be a frivolous and/or vexatious complaint because you do not genuinely fail to understand why they have taken the action they have taken, nor dispute that they are allowed to do it under the account terms...

    ... You are going to complain that they have done something quite reasonable so that they might give you more free money in the hope that you do not take your frivolous complaint to the ombudsman who will charge them a few hundred pounds to look at the complaint before he later judges it to be groundless.

    Great.
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    Harsh but true bowlhead. However I'm not sure why my sharedealing account should face the same fate.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 30th Nov 17, 4:52 PM
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    bowlhead99
    Harsh but true bowlhead.
    Originally posted by longleggedhair
    Heh, I wondered if I should have put a smiley on it to show I wasn't totally enraged about your attitude.

    But as a user of financial services (and employee in that industry) it does sometimes beggar belief that some customers want to increase the costs for all the other customers (or lower the legitimate business profits for the banks, which are owned by our pensions funds etc...) by making complaints about how an account that used to send them free money when they pushed the Ts & Cs to their limit in a way that was clearly not what the promotion was trying to encourage, is no longer going to give them the free money.

    Just accept that the gravy train is over and move on, rather than wasting the time of the compliance department and the ombudsman "only to extract some final cash from them". You are just putting up the prices for all the other customers.


    However I'm not sure why my sharedealing account should face the same fate.
    Yes, impossible to tell really. It may just be that if they have decided they don't want to keep a current account customer because of whatever flags your account activity raises internally (which could be AML suspicion ones for all we know), they have a policy of also politely declining that customer's investment business.

    You shouldn't need to worry about their decisions having an effect on the other bank's dealings with you. If there is no CIFAS flag on your credit file, they haven't reported your name as being used by a fraudster. Any money laundering suspicion reports for example are not shared by Halifax with the credit agencies or other banks, but with the financial intelligence unit, part of the national crime agency. They sit there and collect reports and see whether they receive more reports of suspicion from elsewhere. They don't tell other banks to decline your business.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 30th Nov 17, 6:34 PM
    • 56,257 Posts
    • 49,626 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    From doing more research, it's seems many people who move cash in and out of their accounts to trigger the bonus payments/interest have faced the same problem, entirely as I expected.
    Originally posted by longleggedhair
    Money mules or mulling is currently a hot topic. Whether you are or aren't isn't the issue. Banks will simply want to clean up their customer base and eradicate such activity. In the process viewing such activity on a commercial basis and whether you are worth having as a customer. No grounds for complaint.
    “Opportunities come infrequently. When it rains gold, put out the bucket, not the thimble”
    ― Warren Buffett
    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 30th Nov 17, 7:51 PM
    • 1,146 Posts
    • 920 Thanks
    TheShape
    If I were a bank I wouldn't want your business because .........

    - you are someone taking the mickey out of their reward for loyal customers by holding an account with them and funding it temporarily from time to time, simply so that they pay you a cash reward for having the account while they incur all the costs of the account being open.
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    I bet there's a few here that would have to admit to doing the same. I'm definitely guilty of working the system to my advantage. I wouldn't turn down a 0% purchases credit card with Halifax though, if that would earn them some transaction fees.
    • MoneyGeoff
    • By MoneyGeoff 30th Nov 17, 7:52 PM
    • 78 Posts
    • 41 Thanks
    MoneyGeoff
    They have to provide information to you within 40 days if you make a subject access request. The personal data they hold likely contains notes on the closure reason. Or if it was an automated decision, they have to provide that too and provide the reason.

    You have to request in writing (or email) and they can charge you £10.

    https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/principle-6-rights/subject-access-request/

    Although as already pointed out, it seems you already know the reason why they closed your account.
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