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  • FIRST POST
    • AWPTheo
    • By AWPTheo 29th Nov 17, 6:24 PM
    • 10Posts
    • 5Thanks
    AWPTheo
    MoneyBoxApp
    • #1
    • 29th Nov 17, 6:24 PM
    MoneyBoxApp 29th Nov 17 at 6:24 PM
    Hiya,

    Have done a search of the forums but not found anything relating to this app specifically. Basically every time you spend, it rounds the change up to the nearest pound and saves it for you. Has anyone used this app before? You can apparently invest your change into companies like Netflix, Unilever and Disney...

    Any experiences?

    Thank you
    Debts Nov 2017: £1,855.46 £1,835.46
    Savings Nov 2017: £400

    2018 Goal: Save £1200

Page 1
    • AndyT678
    • By AndyT678 29th Nov 17, 7:05 PM
    • 729 Posts
    • 996 Thanks
    AndyT678
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 7:05 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 7:05 PM
    I'd say opinion is divided.

    If I recall correctly, a chap called Anthorn thinks it's brilliant and everybody else in the world thinks that there are better, cheaper ways of achieving the same results.
    • lildoonbuggy
    • By lildoonbuggy 29th Nov 17, 8:40 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 101 Thanks
    lildoonbuggy
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 8:40 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 8:40 PM
    I've used the app since March and built up £500 in 'change' over that time, for which I have paid £5 in fees. At this time my overall gains are 0.4% but that's after the most recent economic forecasts. Before that I was regularly at 3% growth. For my purposes, it's perfect. I don't notice the cash go out each week, and it predicts where you will end up (at the current rate of investment I will have £20k in 10 years). Are there better investments out there - no doubt. But I want something hands off whilst I experiment and diversify with existing real estate and pension investments. I have piece of mind with it being FCA approved, and it is safe, secure and mindless in operation.

    If you want control over what you invest in, I would not recommend the app. It allows you to choose risk portfolios and the level of roundups to apply but that seems to be about the extent of it. However if you want to dabble but aren't ready to commit, this is a great app to try. I believe there is a fee free period as well. Although I considered cashing out after the fees kicked in, I am very happy with the app and the way it slots in with my lifestyle so am happy to keep it for 10 years and beyond.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 29th Nov 17, 9:33 PM
    • 10,803 Posts
    • 7,100 Thanks
    bigadaj
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:33 PM
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:33 PM
    I've used the app since March and built up £500 in 'change' over that time, for which I have paid £5 in fees. At this time my overall gains are 0.4% but that's after the most recent economic forecasts. Before that I was regularly at 3% growth. For my purposes, it's perfect. I don't notice the cash go out each week, and it predicts where you will end up (at the current rate of investment I will have £20k in 10 years). Are there better investments out there - no doubt. But I want something hands off whilst I experiment and diversify with existing real estate and pension investments. I have piece of mind with it being FCA approved, and it is safe, secure and mindless in operation.

    If you want control over what you invest in, I would not recommend the app. It allows you to choose risk portfolios and the level of roundups to apply but that seems to be about the extent of it. However if you want to dabble but aren't ready to commit, this is a great app to try. I believe there is a fee free period as well. Although I considered cashing out after the fees kicked in, I am very happy with the app and the way it slots in with my lifestyle so am happy to keep it for 10 years and beyond.
    Originally posted by lildoonbuggy
    Are you currently at £5 net profit, or £3 net loss?
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 30th Nov 17, 12:14 AM
    • 3,308 Posts
    • 1,864 Thanks
    cloud_dog
    • #5
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:14 AM
    • #5
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:14 AM
    I've used the app since March and built up £500 in 'change' over that time, for which I have paid £5 in fees.
    Originally posted by lildoonbuggy
    So, either you have been ever so slightly disingenuous of the facts of the fees, or it is possible you don't understand the fee structure?

    You have been with the provider since March, 9 months in total, and the provider charges £1 per month, per account (GIA or ISA). Lets assume they charge in arrears that means £8; minus the first three free months leaves us with £5. Not sure you can ignore the three free months as that is a one off. So, the cost for eight months is £8.

    Plus there is a 0.45% annual platform charge.

    So, if we extrapolate out your £500 over eight months for a one year appraisal you might have £750 after one year. Total costs would be £12 plus £3.37 which equals £15.37, which equates to a charge of approx 2% per annum.

    Obviously the £12 per year cost will reduce the impact on the overall cost as your fund grows.

    To put it another way. HL charge 0.45% only for their offering and whilst they are well regarded for their service they are considered expensive.

    Every time I hear about these types of apps, I can't help thinking of WALL-E (the film)
    Last edited by cloud_dog; 30-11-2017 at 12:19 AM.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • bobobski
    • By bobobski 30th Nov 17, 9:43 AM
    • 672 Posts
    • 1,530 Thanks
    bobobski
    • #6
    • 30th Nov 17, 9:43 AM
    • #6
    • 30th Nov 17, 9:43 AM
    Personally this app wouldn't work for me as a dedicated YNAB-er. The concept that you haven't budgeted this money in the first place, so much so that you "don't notice" it leaving your account, terrifies me. But then I used to be awful with money and only turned that around by strictly following the "give every dollar a job" rule; not everyone has the same money mindset.
    #18: Save 12k in 2017: £11,385.86 / £12,000 (94.8%) | #86: Save £12k in 2016: £8,476.09 / £10,000 (84.76%)
    House deposit by 31/12/2020: £21,465.15 / £60,000 (35.7%) | Emergency fund by 31/12/2020: £1,663.13 / £5,000 (33.2%)
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 30th Nov 17, 10:04 AM
    • 3,443 Posts
    • 5,277 Thanks
    Malthusian
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 17, 10:04 AM
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 17, 10:04 AM
    I've used the app since March and built up £500 in 'change' over that time, for which I have paid £5 in fees.
    Originally posted by lildoonbuggy
    Assuming that the amount of change rounded up follows a uniform distribution between 0p and 99p, which means that the average amount saved per transaction is near-as-dammit to 50p, that suggests 1,000 transactions in that time, which depending on exactly where in March you started means somewhere between 240-270 days.

    So you're using whichever card / account is attached to MoneyBox around 4 times a day.

    Now obviously I have no idea of your lifestyle but I suggest that most people who use their card 4 times a day could save a lot more money than a few pennies if they actually wanted to.
    • Jibeddy
    • By Jibeddy 30th Nov 17, 11:01 AM
    • 61 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Jibeddy
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:01 AM
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:01 AM
    The confusing for me is, surely after a month or 2 of using such an app (even if you're quite bad at budgeting) you'd have a rough idea of exactly how much money you can part with each month and you could just find a better product to put that sum of money?
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 30th Nov 17, 12:09 PM
    • 3,308 Posts
    • 1,864 Thanks
    cloud_dog
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:09 PM
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:09 PM
    Yes, we are moving to a world where Alexa will sort your life out for you and then, when your life isn't sorted how you'd like it, you have someone to blame (who can't argue back; probably will be able to in the years to come).
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • lildoonbuggy
    • By lildoonbuggy 30th Nov 17, 9:28 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 101 Thanks
    lildoonbuggy
    Whoa, forgot about this post but can see I have spooked some! (If any admins are listening - when do we get an app with notifications? ) Obviously didn't want to set the hares racing, so happy to clarify any points that may help someone else to choose an investment channel that works best for them. This is based only in my experience.

    To date I have made gross gains of £9.31 of which £5.40 went to fees. This leaves me with a total profit of £3.91 (or +0.82%, though as mentioned this was averaging at +3% until the recent forecast). In terms of the fees, I assume based on the figures that my fee free period ended 5 months ago.

    In terms of my card payments, no I'm not a mindless spender. I do have a fixed budget that I live by, and only use my card 20 to 30 times a month, including to tap into public transport each day. At first I was only generating around £3 a week to invest, so I increased the roundups to the nearest £ plus an extra £. I also have an additional direct debit in place for £15 a week - this has gradually built up from £2 a week since July. As I grow confidence, I keep increasing the direct debit. I hope to move to £20 a week soon.

    In terms of YNAB, completely agree. This app is not ideal if you need to track your spending. I'm lucky in the sense I always have some money left at the end of the month after saving. I could add it to my savings account I guess but a) where is the fun in that and b) I am slightly OCD in that I prefer round figures in my savings accounts. I appreciate it makes me very privileged to be even able to think that.

    In terms of people who have their various criticisms of the app or even the way I use it, fair play to you, but it doesn't really change anything for me. I read the criticisms of the app shortly after I started using it and considered cancelling. Instead I upped my investments and am now very happy with the way it is continuing to challenge me and my spending habits, shows me where I could get to with minimal effort, is simple and transparent, and above all is building my confidence in a space I am usually very risk averse in. Without this, I would be a lot more relaxed with my funds and would likely never get involved in stocks due to personal fears. Now I actually feel in control of my financial future and I can tell you, as a female this is not necessarily a belief you are instilled with at birth. May sound pathetic, but if you don't know what place that might be coming from then you should count yourself privileged.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 30th Nov 17, 10:34 PM
    • 6,990 Posts
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    bowlhead99
    That's good to hear you are realising that your wages / salary give you enough income that you can afford to pull some money out of your current account each month and stick it in longer term savings or investment. Sometimes people do need that nudge of proving that they can do without the money before they can 'commit' to putting it away on an ongoing basis.

    Of course, now you know that you can transfer cash into some sort of investment account and pretty much afford the £20/ wk - or whatever your run-rate has been to get about £500 invested since March - then you could just be putting that into any number of 'normal' ISA investment accounts. Loads of providers offer £25-a-month plus direct debits and don't require a monthly £1 fee.

    Whoa, forgot about this post but can see I have spooked some! (If any admins are listening - when do we get an app with notifications? )
    It's only been 25 hours since your previous post so not too long to forget about it. But if you're absent-minded you can change your thread subscription settings via user control panel (edit options, default thread subscription mode) with an option to get an email notfication of any updates to that thread. After replying on thousands of threads, I dont have it turned on by default
    • lildoonbuggy
    • By lildoonbuggy 30th Nov 17, 10:49 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 101 Thanks
    lildoonbuggy
    That's good to hear you are realising that your wages / salary give you enough income that you can afford to pull some money out of your current account each month and stick it in longer term savings or investment. Sometimes people do need that nudge of proving that they can do without the money before they can 'commit' to putting it away on an ongoing basis.

    Of course, now you know that you can transfer cash into some sort of investment account and pretty much afford the £20/ wk - or whatever your run-rate has been to get about £500 invested since March - then you could just be putting that into any number of 'normal' ISA investment accounts. Loads of providers offer £25-a-month plus direct debits and don't require a monthly £1 fee.

    It's only been 25 hours since your previous post so not too long to forget about it. But if you're absent-minded you can change your thread subscription settings via user control panel (edit options, default thread subscription mode) with an option to get an email notfication of any updates to that thread. After replying on thousands of threads, I dont have it turned on by default
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    Thanks for the advice, definitely still dabbling with my cash investments but i guess the bonus about this is its ticking along in the background whilst I do that. Out of interest, what are these other accounts you speak of? I already have 2 Nationwide saver accounts, but have not tried ISAs. I do know moneybox now have an 8sa feature though.

    Great tip on the thread subscriptions! Will keep that in mind in future
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 1st Dec 17, 12:25 AM
    • 3,308 Posts
    • 1,864 Thanks
    cloud_dog
    lildoonbuggy, I have nothing against these types of apps per se, I find them expensive and I don't believe they aid a person to set goals and to strive to achieve those goals. It's a bit like someone saving money at the end of the month, if they have any left. It won't work. To save/invest you need to consciously commit to it.

    If this works for you then fine but as Jibeddy pointed out after a short period of time you have evidence of what you can do without each month and could simply set up a savings or investment scheme far more cheaply.

    You espouse the transparency of it all but, even you have to admit you were economical with the truth in your original post. I just find it all a little contradictory.

    In fact you have identified that using the app as intended is not getting you where you want to be due to the very small amounts involved:

    At first I was only generating around £3 a week to invest, so I increased the roundups to the nearest £ plus an extra £. I also have an additional direct debit in place for £15 a week - this has gradually built up from £2 a week since July. As I grow confidence, I keep increasing the direct debit. I hope to move to £20 a week soon.
    by lildoonbuggy
    So, you've gone through the learning curve, have a far better understanding, and have figured out the solution of what you want and can afford to invest, and you will soon be 'investing' £80 per month (quite a reasonable sum for novice investor).

    So, the question becomes... Why wouldn't you choose the most cost effective way to achieve your goals?

    As an example you could use your £80pm and invest it via Cavendish and not only would you not pay the £1 per month charge you would pay an annual platform charge of only 0.25% (45% less than with Moneybox; 0.45%).

    It is for these factual reasons, and not any 'fake reasons', that you may find people disbelieving of the value of these types of services.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • Zanderman
    • By Zanderman 1st Dec 17, 8:18 AM
    • 1,312 Posts
    • 3,741 Thanks
    Zanderman
    Whoa, forgot about this post but can see I have spooked some! (If any admins are listening - when do we get an app with notifications? )
    Originally posted by lildoonbuggy
    Some time ago - you just have to 'subscribe' to the thread.

    (edit - I see bowlhead beat me to it, some time ago!)
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 1st Dec 17, 9:59 AM
    • 3,443 Posts
    • 5,277 Thanks
    Malthusian
    MoneyBox: "Our app is unique because you can save small amounts via rounding up change and not notice it going out of your account."

    Me: "But if you put pennies into an investment you get pennies out. And if you are saving say £15 a month (one transaction a day x 50p average) the fees are eye-gougingly expensive, equivalent to 13% per annum in the first year."

    MoneyBox: "Ah, but there's nothing to stop you saving an amount that actually matters via Direct Debit, which would also make the £1 fee more reasonable."

    Me: "So the unique selling point of the app is completely pointless, and you might as well set up a Direct Debit with a platform that doesn't offer change rounding and is an order of magnitude cheaper."

    MoneyBox: "Look at our app! It's shiny shiny."
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 1st Dec 17, 1:23 PM
    • 5,890 Posts
    • 5,850 Thanks
    eskbanker
    Me: "But if you put pennies into an investment you get pennies out...."
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    Unless you invest in cryptocurrencies of course, in which case your pennies will become £millions, according to some enthusiasts on here
    • lildoonbuggy
    • By lildoonbuggy 1st Dec 17, 7:11 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 101 Thanks
    lildoonbuggy
    lildoonbuggy, I have nothing against these types of apps per se, I find them expensive and I don't believe they aid a person to set goals and to strive to achieve those goals. It's a bit like someone saving money at the end of the month, if they have any left. It won't work. To save/invest you need to consciously commit to it.

    If this works for you then fine but as Jibeddy pointed out after a short period of time you have evidence of what you can do without each month and could simply set up a savings or investment scheme far more cheaply.

    You espouse the transparency of it all but, even you have to admit you were economical with the truth in your original post. I just find it all a little contradictory.

    In fact you have identified that using the app as intended is not getting you where you want to be due to the very small amounts involved:



    So, you've gone through the learning curve, have a far better understanding, and have figured out the solution of what you want and can afford to invest, and you will soon be 'investing' £80 per month (quite a reasonable sum for novice investor).

    So, the question becomes... Why wouldn't you choose the most cost effective way to achieve your goals?

    As an example you could use your £80pm and invest it via Cavendish and not only would you not pay the £1 per month charge you would pay an annual platform charge of only 0.25% (45% less than with Moneybox; 0.45%).

    It is for these factual reasons, and not any 'fake reasons', that you may find people disbelieving of the value of these types of services.
    Originally posted by cloud_dog
    Well there's a lot I disagree with here but I'll spare people the boredom of it. At the end of the day, you are reading into it what you want, and others will do the same. That is the point of consumer choice - I may think your predilection for smart TVs and led light strips is a waste of money, but at the end of the day it's all relative. In terms of other investment funds, that will work for some but I prefer having an app that links with my accounts and is easy and enjoyable to access. For that reason Cavendish is not suitable for my needs. Also, I don't think circa £12 per year is an unreasonable to spend a year - in fact i will gladly throw it their way for the value I get back. So whilst I appreciate your expertise with investing, I also think you shouldnt completely write off the merits of a product simply because it doesn't suit you. Like they say, it's about the journey not just the destination.
    • AWPTheo
    • By AWPTheo 5th Dec 17, 12:13 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    AWPTheo
    Wow, had a busy week so hadn't checked back in here besides to update my diary - lots going on!

    As a person, I struggle with spending money too freely and so it seemed like a good alternative way to save - saving the pennies from transactions (I set it to round up to the nearest £) and also give me a little reality check on how often I am using my card. Definitely after 3 months when the trial ends, I will consider saving elsewhere.

    I know Lloyds bank operate a similar saving change scheme on their current accounts, but unfortunately thanks to poor credit I'm unable to get more than a foundation bank account Might be worth looking into if this style of savings would suit any of you, as I imagine there are no/less fees? Would need to research.
    Debts Nov 2017: £1,855.46 £1,835.46
    Savings Nov 2017: £400

    2018 Goal: Save £1200

    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 5th Dec 17, 4:44 PM
    • 3,308 Posts
    • 1,864 Thanks
    cloud_dog
    Well there's a lot I disagree with here but I'll spare people the boredom of it
    Originally posted by lildoonbuggy
    No, no, no.... you go for it. I believe this is a discussion forum so feel free.

    At the end of the day, you are reading into it what you want, and others will do the same. That is the point of consumer choice - I may think your predilection for smart TVs and led light strips is a waste of money, but at the end of the day it's all relative.
    Originally posted by lildoonbuggy
    Eh?

    In terms of other investment funds, that will work for some but I prefer having an app that links with my accounts and is easy and enjoyable to access. For that reason Cavendish is not suitable for my needs.
    Originally posted by lildoonbuggy
    Ah, yes. The form over function argument. Got me there. Your probably right pretty things are sooo much cooler than functional

    Also, I don't think circa £12 per year is an unreasonable to spend a year
    Originally posted by lildoonbuggy
    But again, you are being disingenuous with the facts. You are Donald Trump, I claim my £10. For someone who revels in the transparency of things you've completely forgotten that the AMC/platform charge is almost twice as much as Cavendish (as an example), sooo not just £12 eh.

    - in fact i will gladly throw it their way for the value I get back.
    Originally posted by lildoonbuggy
    Ah yes, the pretty stuff.

    So whilst I appreciate your expertise with investing, I also think you shouldnt completely write off the merits of a product simply because it doesn't suit you. Like they say, it's about the journey not just the destination.
    Originally posted by lildoonbuggy
    I didn't. I simply pointed out something that you yourself have identified, within a very short period of time, namely that once you understand you do have disposable income of X per month you can use that more effectively by investing.

    The whole point is that once you've figured it out; however you may get there, there are better options and you should utilise those better options to improve your own well being (financially).

    I come back to....Now you've figured that out (other than finding something pretty and shiny)... Why wouldn't you choose the most cost effective way to achieve your goals?
    Last edited by cloud_dog; 05-12-2017 at 4:51 PM.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
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