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  • FIRST POST
    • Moogles44
    • By Moogles44 29th Nov 17, 5:56 PM
    • 137Posts
    • 52Thanks
    Moogles44
    Complicated situation . Buying house with no planning permission
    • #1
    • 29th Nov 17, 5:56 PM
    Complicated situation . Buying house with no planning permission 29th Nov 17 at 5:56 PM
    Ok, this is a complicated situation so I’ll just give brief description of situation as it will simpler , I hope.

    I may have to part buy the house that I live in as I really want to buy the house as I have always lived here but I don’t legally own it. My parents had it before me and have taken out original fireplaces and I’ve noticed someone had taken rafters out the loft, which we have tried to put more in but probably needs looking at ( I know, what we’re they thinking!) There May also be other things no applied for.

    No one is alive to rectify the things done or be in trouble for it. I am up against a step parent who wants more than the house is worth.

    So my questions are ;
    Would these things ( all brick fireplaces that went up to ceilings removed with no planning permission and removed rafters- diagonal struts in loft ) devalue a house a lot?

    How do I find out if planning permission was applied for( worried that if I ask and it wasn’t that I am suddenly liable if I suddenly get house)?

    Can step mother sell/transfer a house without planning permission?

    Can I buy a house with no planning permission ?

    Excuse me being thick , I have no experience of buying houses and everything that goes with it.
    Last edited by Moogles44; 29-11-2017 at 5:58 PM.
Page 1
    • sammyjammy
    • By sammyjammy 29th Nov 17, 6:01 PM
    • 4,236 Posts
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    sammyjammy
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 6:01 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 6:01 PM
    Its not planning permission that would be needed its building control sign off. I would suggest if what you say is true it certainly devalues the house particularly if rafters have been removed
    "You've been reading SOS when it's just your clock reading 5:05 "
    • G_M
    • By G_M 29th Nov 17, 6:25 PM
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    G_M
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 6:25 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 6:25 PM
    I am up against a step parent who wants more than the house is worth.
    Who currently owns it?
    If you are not sure, pay £3 here to buy the Title document and check the registered owner.

    So my questions are ;
    Would these things ( all brick fireplaces that went up to ceilings removed with no planning permission and removed rafters- diagonal struts in loft ) devalue a house a lot?
    * Plannig Permission is not relevant
    * Those changes should have had Building Regultions certification
    * Without certifiction, it may be that the property is unsafe, or the changes of poor quality
    * A survey could help establish if it is safe etc
    * IF unsafe/poor quality work, then yes that would reduce the value

    How do I find out if planning permission was applied for( worried that if I ask and it wasn’t that I am suddenly liable if I suddenly get house)?
    Planning Permission not required.
    But both Plannig Permission and Building cetification ccan usually be checked via your council website

    Can step mother sell/transfer a house without planning permission?
    Yes - assuming
    a) he is the owner and
    b) a buyer is willing to buy

    Can I buy a house with no planning permission ?
    Yes of course, but at your own risk.

    .
    Originally posted by Moogles44
    hope that helps.

    Just to add, if you need to get a mortgage in order to buy, the bank will also need to be satisfied that the house is safe.
    • Moogles44
    • By Moogles44 29th Nov 17, 6:49 PM
    • 137 Posts
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    Moogles44
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 17, 6:49 PM
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 17, 6:49 PM
    Thank you both, that’s really helpful. Yes I may need a mortgage so something that I need to check .
    Are surveyors expensive?

    I just went on the council website and typed the postcode in and nothing came up for my house but did for neighbours houses. It may have been done in the 1970’s so would that still be on there?

    House is currently in a sort of limbo as my dad just died and it was in his and my mums name , who died many years ago.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 29th Nov 17, 7:00 PM
    • 42,342 Posts
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    G_M
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 7:00 PM
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 7:00 PM
    Did you dad leave a Will?

    If yes, who is/are the Executor(s)?
    If not, who has applied to administer his Estate?

    What happens to the house is now in the hands of that Executer or Administrator. You might want to read this:

    https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance

    If the work was done in the 1970s, it is likely to pre-date online records. The council might have paper records hidden in their basement archive!

    But it is more likely that the Building Regulations did not exist at that time, so certificaton was not required (someone else may know the exact date BRs were introduced). I think though, that given that 50 years has passed, both Planning and Building Regs are now irrelevant!

    Surveyors cost between £200 & £1000 dep=pending what kind of survey you ask for.

    I suggest you borrow a book on house buying from your local library - free! eg

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Buying-Your-First-House-2016/dp/1522929061/ref=pd_sbs_14_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=A3T4JH 5E4QRYX7HJXCH7

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/House-Selling-Dummies-Eric-Tyson/dp/0470170468/ref=sr_1_4/259-5012913-8772006?ie=UTF8&qid=1511982077&sr=8-4&keywords=buying+a+house+for+dummies
    Last edited by G_M; 29-11-2017 at 7:04 PM.
    • Moogles44
    • By Moogles44 29th Nov 17, 7:11 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 52 Thanks
    Moogles44
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 7:11 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 7:11 PM
    Did you dad leave a Will?

    If yes, who is the Executer(s)?
    If not, who has applied to administer his Estate?

    What happens to the house is now in the hands of that Executer or Administrator. You might want to read this:

    https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance

    If the work was done in the 1970s, it is likely to pre-date online records. The council might have paper records hidden in their basement archive!

    But it is more likely that the Building Regulations did not exist at that time, so certificaton was not required (someone else may know the exact date BRs were introduced). I think though, that given that 50 years has passed, both Planning and Building Regs are now irrelevant!

    Surveyors cost etween £200 & £1000 deppending whatt kind of survey you ask for.

    I suggest you borrow a book on house buying from your local library - free! eg
    Originally posted by G_M
    Iím ok with all the will stuff and everything relating to the will and executor and all that stuff, itís just the house buying.

    The house is a state and I think possibly dangerous and apparently roof is slightly dipping .
    So as fireplaces smashed out a long time ago it doesnít matter ? I need a survey?
    To be honest itís not outright buying a house , i may just need , hopefully, a small mortgage but I need house priced accurately as it will effect my case and I know I can get estate agents but wanted to present them something valid showing problems before they value it as I need a genuine actual selling price .
    • G_M
    • By G_M 29th Nov 17, 7:21 PM
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    G_M
    • #7
    • 29th Nov 17, 7:21 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Nov 17, 7:21 PM
    The property will need to be valued anyway, by the Executor, for the Estate, and for HMRC (Inheritance Tax, which may or may not be payable).

    So the Executor could either get several estate agents round to give valuations, and take an average, or pay an RICS surveyor for a more professiona Valuation (£200?).

    The value of the property is relevant both in terms of manageing the Estate, and in terms of your potential purchase of it.

    Bear in mind that the Executor has a legal duty to get the best price possible, either from you or on the open market.

    So again I ask: who is the Executor? You? Your step parent? A solicitor? Someone else?
    • Moogles44
    • By Moogles44 29th Nov 17, 9:47 PM
    • 137 Posts
    • 52 Thanks
    Moogles44
    • #8
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:47 PM
    S
    • #8
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:47 PM
    The property will need to be valued anyway, by the Executor, for the Estate, and for HMRC (Inheritance Tax, which may or may not be payable).

    So the Executor could either get several estate agents round to give valuations, and take an average, or pay an RICS surveyor for a more professiona Valuation (£200?).

    The value of the property is relevant both in terms of manageing the Estate, and in terms of your potential purchase of it.

    Bear in mind that the Executor has a legal duty to get the best price possible, either from you or on the open market.

    So again I ask: who is the Executor? You? Your step parent? A solicitor? Someone else?
    Originally posted by G_M
    Itís funny, no one has asked for a valuation. Just used an estimate that I previously found from a neighbours sale ( nicer condition than mine).

    Estate has already all been totalled up.

    Executor is not me but being a different sort of case survey is not being asked for by executor , Iím choosing to do it myself as it affects me a lot and executor is not great at their job and Iím not allowed to talk to them anyway so just getting on with it myself and will present it to them at a later date.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 29th Nov 17, 11:12 PM
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    G_M
    • #9
    • 29th Nov 17, 11:12 PM
    • #9
    • 29th Nov 17, 11:12 PM
    Are you a Beneficiary of the will?

    If you inherit (eg a %?), and the property has been either over or under-valued, then you would inheit the wrong amount.

    You could then challenge the Executor (especially if the property was undervalued resulting in you receiving less).

    "Not allowed to talk to them"? Certainly, the responibility is theirs. But you can raise concerns concering your rightful inhritance, and should do so in writing if this is the case.

    But I'm hypothesising, and this is beginning to feel like squeezing water out of a stone. The Executor? The beneficiary/ies? The property? It's all bound up together and you are asking advice without revealing all the relevant information.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 29th Nov 17, 11:40 PM
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    EachPenny
    If the work was done in the 1970s, it is likely to pre-date online records. The council might have paper records hidden in their basement archive!

    But it is more likely that the Building Regulations did not exist at that time, so certificaton was not required (someone else may know the exact date BRs were introduced). I think though, that given that 50 years has passed, both Planning and Building Regs are now irrelevant!
    Originally posted by G_M
    The current system started in England and Wales in 1965 (slightly earlier in Scotland). Authorities used to keep a paper file for each property which had come to its attention at some point (either in construction or modification). Those paper files may still exist, or the council might have had them scanned.

    However, regulations for building have a much, much longer history (depending on location). I used to spend hours looking through 1930's records getting details of drainage systems There are certainly records going back to Victorian times still knocking about. Regulations and bylaws started much earlier, but it is doubtful very many deposited plans still exist from 1212 http://www.buildinghistory.org/regulations.shtml
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 30th Nov 17, 6:43 AM
    • 30,847 Posts
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    getmore4less
    Who are you buying the house off the estate or beneficiaries?

    It makes a big difference to what happens next.

    when you say

    I may have to part buy the house that I live in
    Is that because you do(or will) own part of it and want to buy the rest or you will be joint owners with someone else.?

    I’m ok with all the will stuff and everything relating to the will and executor and all that stuff, it’s just the house buying
    .

    You may think you are, but you are not convincing G_M and I am not so sure either yet.
    • Ozzuk
    • By Ozzuk 30th Nov 17, 8:37 AM
    • 1,179 Posts
    • 1,728 Thanks
    Ozzuk
    Iím ok with all the will stuff and everything relating to the will and executor and all that stuff, itís just the house buying.

    The house is a state and I think possibly dangerous and apparently roof is slightly dipping .
    So as fireplaces smashed out a long time ago it doesnít matter ? I need a survey?
    To be honest itís not outright buying a house , i may just need , hopefully, a small mortgage but I need house priced accurately as it will effect my case and I know I can get estate agents but wanted to present them something valid showing problems before they value it as I need a genuine actual selling price .
    Originally posted by Moogles44
    If you may find it difficult to get a mortgage if the house is unsafe. You still need to worry about the fireplaces, if they were removed for instance and the chimneys left in place - could be why roof is sagging. May never be an issue, may fall down tomorrow, no way we can tell.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 30th Nov 17, 8:44 AM
    • 15,444 Posts
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    elsien
    Who are you buying the house off the estate or beneficiaries?

    It makes a big difference to what happens next.

    when you say



    Is that because you do(or will) own part of it and want to buy the rest or you will be joint owners with someone else.?

    .

    You may think you are, but you are not convincing G_M and I am not so sure either yet.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    It may be related to OPs previous thread with regards to challenging a will.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Moogles44
    • By Moogles44 30th Nov 17, 9:11 AM
    • 137 Posts
    • 52 Thanks
    Moogles44
    Who are you buying the house off the estate or beneficiaries?

    It makes a big difference to what happens next.

    when you say



    Is that because you do(or will) own part of it and want to buy the rest or you will be joint owners with someone else.?

    .

    You may think you are, but you are not convincing G_M and I am not so sure either yet.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    I’m not being specific in case this is seen by executor. I honestly do know a lot about the will and that process.

    I’m actually challenging a will and barrister has now impartiality looked at my case and I have a good chance of being given the house in its entirety as I have a mountain of documents, witness statements , legal papers , previous wills etc which strongly uphold my claim. The very worse case scenario is me paying for a small part of house and being given the rest but it’s over valued in the estate and for this transfer to go through I need all facts relating to buying /selling of house before mediation. It should have been mine years ago because my mother tried to make a will when dying but was too trusting in her husband , who did uphold it nearly to the end when he met someone who genuinely only married him for his money. So I’ve been through all that lot with solicitors, barristers etc for over a year and know all that and know my case very well - proprietary estoppel and I’m honestly not being rude but don’t need to go into that.

    Executor is main beneficiariy and just wants all the money, estate as quick as possible and is very angry it’s taking so long. I am having to do it all because executor can’t speak English and can’t understand the the legal stuff being told to them so is incapable of getting survey , house prices etc. It’s down to me , which I don’t actually mind as I will get it done accurately and the lower the house is priced at the better it is for me - again more to case of why it is better if it’s cheaper( nothing to do with inheritance tax).

    I’ll ring council today and ask them if they have any documents. Also very helpful about needing survey before a mortgage �� .

    Thank you all

    Edit - I rung building control and there is no planning permission for anything. He reckons that’s why the roof is sagging a bit . Recommends I should call in a structural engineer.
    Last edited by Moogles44; 30-11-2017 at 3:46 PM.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 30th Nov 17, 4:31 PM
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    getmore4less
    All you need is a valuation to use to make an offer for the bit you don't own.

    RICS valuer.


    If the other owner won't sell you need to force a sale.
    Last edited by getmore4less; 30-11-2017 at 4:34 PM.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 30th Nov 17, 7:49 PM
    • 42,342 Posts
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    G_M
    Then it's simple.

    Employ an RICS surveyor to give you a formal Valuation.

    When instructing him, make him aware of your concerns regarding the potential structural issues and the lack of Regulations. He will take that into account and provide an appropriate Valuation which you can use.
    • Shelldean
    • By Shelldean 30th Nov 17, 9:18 PM
    • 1,959 Posts
    • 1,285 Thanks
    Shelldean
    Just for the record, some countries coils have ALL their records online for planning permission. Ours, London borough of Sutton does.
    Early entries lack details no plans or anything. Just the decision basically. Definitely not as detailed as modern planning requests.

    No help to OP. But may help some one in future.
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