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  • FIRST POST
    • Justaboutmanaging
    • By Justaboutmanaging 29th Nov 17, 2:54 PM
    • 8Posts
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    Justaboutmanaging
    damaged sofa - refused responsibility
    • #1
    • 29th Nov 17, 2:54 PM
    damaged sofa - refused responsibility 29th Nov 17 at 2:54 PM
    I had a very expensive sofa made of entirely natural materials as i have severe allergies. This was a big, once in a lifetime purchase for me.

    The sofa is 7 weeks old and we have noticed a hole in the side of one arm. A friend pointed it out to me. I had not noticed it as it can't be seen from most of the room. My husband then commented he had seen it almost immediately, but didn't mention it.

    I would like the item repaired and saw that i am covered by the consumer rights act of 2015 as it is less than 6 months old. The company that made it said they can't accept responsibility as it is two months old, but have offered a repair if i arrange delivery or to supply me with the fabric for me to pay a local upholsterer to repair.

    I'm really happy to have a repair as the sofas, which are stuffed with sheep's wool, stank to high heaven for weeks after they arrived and have only just started to smell less. I couldn't even use the sitting room for about 4 weeks due to the smell as i couldn't breathe properly when i went in the room. I had already complained about this but got nowhere with the company. But that is not the point of this issue now.

    The problem is they will only repair if i deliver the sofa. I already paid £130 to have the sofa delivered from Nottingham to Wales in September (it may be the delivery men who damaged it as they did shove it hard through the door as it was very tight). That was a special deal as the delivery company added it onto another delivery an hour away from me. The usual delivery price from the Upholstery company is approximately £260 each way and they want me to bear this cost. Is this reasonable? I cant afford to pay them anymore money at all, or to pay for a local upholsterer to fix the issue.

    I have written to them quoting the 2015 act, however i don't know what my rights are in relation to pick up and delivery costs as the company are not local to me. Surely i shouldn't have to pay this and they should bear the cost? They are a small family run business and i have no desire to fall out with them or cause them hardship but...
Page 1
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 29th Nov 17, 3:00 PM
    • 4,932 Posts
    • 3,935 Thanks
    glentoran99
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 3:00 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 3:00 PM
    I don't think you have any case against the retailer and they are being very generous with there offer, If I'm reading this correctly you arranged delivery and you believe the delivery men damaged it, that's not the retailers fault,


    You have had the Sofa for two months, its reasonable for the retailer to have expected notification sooner than this
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 29th Nov 17, 3:01 PM
    • 1,391 Posts
    • 4,163 Thanks
    Oakdene
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 3:01 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 3:01 PM
    You should be telling your husband off as he noticed it earlier on & said nothing.
    Hiraeth
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 29th Nov 17, 3:12 PM
    • 4,878 Posts
    • 9,832 Thanks
    marliepanda
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 17, 3:12 PM
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 17, 3:12 PM
    The act you are quoting deals with faulty items. This item isnít faulty, itís been damaged. The act CAN cover damage due to delivery or manufacture, but you have to prove to them the damage was done when you first got it, and you havenít done it whilst you had it. You are not covered by it. It doesnít cover items being damaged in the first 6 months and to an outsider, thatís what it looks like has happened.

    If you had reported it when you first saw it (or your husband) youíd have been fine. But you have now had a sofa for 2 months and they have no idea what youíve done to it since then.

    Also, as stated, if YOU contracted the delivery company and not the sofa seller, then itís not on them for delivery damage anyway...
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • Justaboutmanaging
    • By Justaboutmanaging 29th Nov 17, 4:20 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    Justaboutmanaging
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 4:20 PM
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 4:20 PM
    Hi, i did not arrange delivery, the company arranged it with a company they used. The Act states that the item must be of good quality (it isnt if it already has a hole in it), and that it is up to the manufacturer to prove within the first 6 months that the damage wasnt already there.

    The place where the hole is is facing away from the room and up next to another chair, a very hard area for us to have damaged. We do'nt have a cat or young children. Surely we should expect a sofa of this quality and expense to not develop a hole/fault within just weeks of us having it?

    I cant get it repaired as we are on a low income and don't believe we caused the damage. Yes husband should have said something earlier!

    Really, no one thinks we have a case?
    • Justaboutmanaging
    • By Justaboutmanaging 29th Nov 17, 4:24 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Justaboutmanaging
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 4:24 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 4:24 PM
    No, they arranged delivery with a trusted firm. I was there when they delivered and saw them take the covers off. i didnt say they had damaged it, but that that was one possibility. The damage/fault is facing away from the room and i could not have seen it when they were first put in as they are very heavy sofas.
    • Justaboutmanaging
    • By Justaboutmanaging 29th Nov 17, 4:26 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Justaboutmanaging
    • #7
    • 29th Nov 17, 4:26 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Nov 17, 4:26 PM
    You should be telling your husband off as he noticed it earlier on & said nothing.
    Originally posted by Oakdene
    Yes - agreed!
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 29th Nov 17, 4:26 PM
    • 4,932 Posts
    • 3,935 Thanks
    glentoran99
    • #8
    • 29th Nov 17, 4:26 PM
    • #8
    • 29th Nov 17, 4:26 PM
    Hi, i did not arrange delivery, the company arranged it with a company they used. The Act states that the item must be of good quality (it isnt if it already has a hole in it), and that it is up to the manufacturer to prove within the first 6 months that the damage wasnt already there.

    The place where the hole is is facing away from the room and up next to another chair, a very hard area for us to have damaged. We do'nt have a cat or young children. Surely we should expect a sofa of this quality and expense to not develop a hole/fault within just weeks of us having it?

    I cant get it repaired as we are on a low income and don't believe we caused the damage. Yes husband should have said something earlier!

    Really, no one thinks we have a case?
    Originally posted by Justaboutmanaging

    Quite easy for them to argue that, the damage wasn't there when you received it, If it was you would have reported it right?
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 29th Nov 17, 4:44 PM
    • 1,034 Posts
    • 720 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    • #9
    • 29th Nov 17, 4:44 PM
    • #9
    • 29th Nov 17, 4:44 PM
    I had a very expensive sofa made of entirely natural materials as i have severe allergies. This was a big, once in a lifetime purchase for me.

    The sofa is 7 weeks old and we have noticed a hole in the side of one arm. A friend pointed it out to me. I had not noticed it as it can't be seen from most of the room. My husband then commented he had seen it almost immediately, but didn't mention it.

    I would like the item repaired and saw that i am covered by the consumer rights act of 2015 as it is less than 6 months old. The company that made it said they can't accept responsibility as it is two months old, but have offered a repair if i arrange delivery or to supply me with the fabric for me to pay a local upholsterer to repair.

    I'm really happy to have a repair as the sofas, which are stuffed with sheep's wool, stank to high heaven for weeks after they arrived and have only just started to smell less. I couldn't even use the sitting room for about 4 weeks due to the smell as i couldn't breathe properly when i went in the room. I had already complained about this but got nowhere with the company. But that is not the point of this issue now.

    The problem is they will only repair if i deliver the sofa. I already paid £130 to have the sofa delivered from Nottingham to Wales in September (it may be the delivery men who damaged it as they did shove it hard through the door as it was very tight). That was a special deal as the delivery company added it onto another delivery an hour away from me. The usual delivery price from the Upholstery company is approximately £260 each way and they want me to bear this cost. Is this reasonable? I cant afford to pay them anymore money at all, or to pay for a local upholsterer to fix the issue.

    I have written to them quoting the 2015 act, however i don't know what my rights are in relation to pick up and delivery costs as the company are not local to me. Surely i shouldn't have to pay this and they should bear the cost? They are a small family run business and i have no desire to fall out with them or cause them hardship but...
    Originally posted by Justaboutmanaging

    So you are allergic to "non natural" materials (which is why you commissioned a special natural materials sofa) but you have a similar problem with sheep's wool? You "...couldn't breathe properly..."? But then, as you say, that's not the point...so why mention it?


    Your husband noticed the damage on delivery but didn't mention it. I wonder why...
    • Quizzical Squirrel
    • By Quizzical Squirrel 29th Nov 17, 4:55 PM
    • 168 Posts
    • 4,186 Thanks
    Quizzical Squirrel
    I know it seems like the scary option but I think you should get couple of local upholsterers out for a quote.
    They might put your mind at rest and help you make your decision.

    Also, if you're planning to have this sofa for decades, it's possible damage will happen again and it will be useful to have someone local.
    Similarly, you may want to re-cover the sofa in the years ahead when it begins to look tired.
    In either case, a reupholsterer may be in your future so it would be good to explore options anyway.
    • usefulmale
    • By usefulmale 29th Nov 17, 5:17 PM
    • 2,323 Posts
    • 4,326 Thanks
    usefulmale
    Hi, i did not arrange delivery, the company arranged it with a company they used. The Act states that the item must be of good quality (it isnt if it already has a hole in it), and that it is up to the manufacturer to prove within the first 6 months that the damage wasnt already there.

    The place where the hole is is facing away from the room and up next to another chair, a very hard area for us to have damaged. We do'nt have a cat or young children. Surely we should expect a sofa of this quality and expense to not develop a hole/fault within just weeks of us having it?

    I cant get it repaired as we are on a low income and don't believe we caused the damage. Yes husband should have said something earlier!

    Really, no one thinks we have a case?
    Originally posted by Justaboutmanaging
    You keep misunderstanding the difference between 'fault' and 'damage'
    Originally Posted by MSE Forum Team
    Weíve had to remove your signature because what you wrote was true and sensible and there's no room for that here.
    • Justaboutmanaging
    • By Justaboutmanaging 29th Nov 17, 5:49 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Justaboutmanaging
    So you are allergic to "non natural" materials (which is why you commissioned a special natural materials sofa) but you have a similar problem with sheep's wool? You "...couldn't breathe properly..."? But then, as you say, that's not the point...so why mention it?


    Your husband noticed the damage on delivery but didn't mention it. I wonder why...
    Originally posted by Manxman in exile
    That's a pretty nasty post right there. Maybe i didn't need to mention it, maybe you didn't need to be so personal. You know nothing of my life or my disease.

    I know it seems like the scary option but I think you should get couple of local upholsterers out for a quote.
    They might put your mind at rest and help you make your decision.

    Also, if you're planning to have this sofa for decades, it's possible damage will happen again and it will be useful to have someone local.
    Similarly, you may want to re-cover the sofa in the years ahead when it begins to look tired.
    In either case, a reupholsterer may be in your future so it would be good to explore options anyway.
    Originally posted by Quizzical Squirrel
    Thank you so much for such a considered and helpful post. i will definitely take your advice on board. I am quite shocked by how rude people have been. wont be posting on MSE forums again after this.

    You keep misunderstanding the difference between 'fault' and 'damage'
    Originally posted by usefulmale
    Could you point pout what you see as the difference. I think with something like a sofa its hard to tell. I mean a hole could be damage or it could possibly be faulty because of poor use of materials or workmanship, or could have been there in the workshop, could have happened on delivery. I don't actually know the answer, just putting forward my thoughts. Thank you for yours.
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 29th Nov 17, 6:46 PM
    • 9,948 Posts
    • 4,096 Thanks
    JJ Egan
    Hole could be either but far more likely to be damage .

    If you send the item back charged for or not and they say sorry its damaged you pay for us to ship it back .
    Probably better to get an independent report to prove its as you claim . If it is delivery damage then yes its to late to prove who is the culprit .
    • Justaboutmanaging
    • By Justaboutmanaging 6th Dec 17, 1:05 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Justaboutmanaging
    I rang the Citizens Advice Bureau consumer helpline and got excellent advice.

    They said i AM covered by the 2015 Consumer rights Act, that the company is liable for damage during delivery as they arranged the delivery and i paid through them for it. They also told me i would be arguing the good were 'not of satisfactory quality' as they either came with a hole or have easily had a hole come about so soon after buying.

    They said that as its under 6 months the onus is on the company to prove the damage/hole wasn't there after delivery. They could do this by showing me a delivery note signed by me saying the sofa was ok. I cant remember if i signed one, but if i did then i cant pursue it further. If they cant prove it then they must repair or replace at their cost, not mine, including pick up and delivery.

    I have written this update for the interest of anyone in a similar situation, as the advice i got here was
    1. wrong and
    2. mainly rude
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 6th Dec 17, 1:23 PM
    • 4,878 Posts
    • 9,832 Thanks
    marliepanda
    I rang the Citizens Advice Bureau consumer helpline and got excellent advice. (they told me what I wanted to hear)

    They said i AM covered by the 2015 Consumer rights Act, that the company is liable for damage during delivery as they arranged the delivery and i paid through them for it (prove it was during delivery 2 months ago then...). They also told me i would be arguing the good were 'not of satisfactory quality' as they either came with a hole or have easily had a hole come about so soon after buying. Its damaged, it hasnt come apart at the seams! You could have hacked at it with a bread knife for all the CAB know

    They said that as its under 6 months the onus is on the company to prove the damage/hole wasn't there after delivery They have to prove that in all likelyhood it wasnt there. After 2 months, easy! Why on earth didnt you notice it.... oh wait you did.. They could do this by showing me a delivery note signed by me saying the sofa was ok. I cant remember if i signed one, but if i did then i cant pursue it further. That is absolutely NOT their only protection... The fact youve had it for 2 months without a peep is a massive clue also

    I have written this update for the interest of anyone in a similar situation, as the advice i got here was
    1. wrong and
    2. mainly rude
    3. Not what I wanted to hear
    Originally posted by Justaboutmanaging
    No it wasnt.

    All of what the CAB said is wrong. Theres a hole in it, which you noticed after 2 months. The company is within their rights to make you prove that it wasn'tWAS (typo) like that when it arrived at your house, as most people would spot a massive hole (which in fact your husband did) but unlike your husband, actually say something about it.

    For all the company knows, you could have done that yourself, and it doesnt matter what the CAB say.
    People do damage items, and they cannot just do that without worry in the first 6 months as you seem to suggest.

    Its damaged. They can make you prove you didnt do it in the 2 months you have had it.

    Come back when they roll over and take the CAB word over the actual law
    Last edited by marliepanda; 06-12-2017 at 1:35 PM.
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • Nodding Donkey
    • By Nodding Donkey 6th Dec 17, 3:27 PM
    • 2,479 Posts
    • 2,103 Thanks
    Nodding Donkey
    What are the chances of the delivery company not getting proof of delivery?
    • bris
    • By bris 6th Dec 17, 7:12 PM
    • 7,094 Posts
    • 6,110 Thanks
    bris
    Would anyone really not say, "oh by the way this new sofa has a big hole in it". Seems pretty strange to me so I suppose they are thinking the same way.


    Your rights don't actually count for accidental damage, home insurance might be your best bet.
    • Justaboutmanaging
    • By Justaboutmanaging 6th Dec 17, 8:57 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    Justaboutmanaging
    Would anyone really not say, "oh by the way this new sofa has a big hole in it". Seems pretty strange to me so I suppose they are thinking the same way.


    Your rights don't actually count for accidental damage, home insurance might be your best bet.
    Originally posted by bris
    Thanks for the reply. i hadn't thought about home insurance.
    I couldn't see the hole, which is not big, as the sofa was pushed up against the far side of the room on delivery. Its very heavy and i am disabled so not able to move it, hence i didn't spot it. A friend pointed it out to me. As its been against the far side of the room i cant see how the accidental damage happened, if in fact it was accidentally damaged in my house.
    • Justaboutmanaging
    • By Justaboutmanaging 6th Dec 17, 9:03 PM
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    Justaboutmanaging

    Also, as stated, if YOU contracted the delivery company and not the sofa seller, then itís not on them for delivery damage anyway...
    Originally posted by marliepanda
    I did not contract them. The sofa company contracted them for me. They arranged it and i paid the sofa company directly for the sofa and for the delivery.
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