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  • FIRST POST
    • dickibobboy
    • By dickibobboy 29th Nov 17, 2:41 PM
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    dickibobboy
    Employment Contract & Training / Notice.. Now leaving.
    • #1
    • 29th Nov 17, 2:41 PM
    Employment Contract & Training / Notice.. Now leaving. 29th Nov 17 at 2:41 PM
    Good Afternoon,


    So just under a month ago i left my previous employment to move to another work place.


    Upon the second week of my new employment i and the rest of the department was placed on a paid training course (paid for by our employer)


    I was given my contract only last week that states every term and conditions etc.. of my employment. I have yet to sign it and hand it back in.


    I am now possibly looking to leave my new employer soon (for a few reasons, long story).


    My contract states that i will have to pay back any training or qualification that has been provided to me by my employer if i leave within 2 years of completing a course or qualification.


    I did not know about this and i did not request the training. I was put on the training very soon after starting and my last employer had no such policy to make me even think or question it.


    My notice period is also one month, one month seems a long time for someone who has been in employment for around only 6 weeks before leaving. If i do move that is also another decision and discussion i have to have (dreading it but for the sake of a 15 minute chat about me leaving i will feel happier not having to be there from then on)


    Does anyone have any advice or am I stuck with the £1.2k bill?


    Thanks
    Things that are free in life are great, well most of the time
Page 1
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 29th Nov 17, 2:57 PM
    • 1,943 Posts
    • 1,815 Thanks
    steampowered
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 2:57 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 2:57 PM
    If you were only given the contract AFTER you already had the training, and you did not agree to the contract, I do not see how the employer can ask you to pay for the training.

    Though they may ask.
    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 29th Nov 17, 3:14 PM
    • 840 Posts
    • 1,907 Thanks
    nicechap
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 3:14 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 3:14 PM
    Strike through the repay the training term and write in, this was not an agreed term when offer of employment was given and accepted.

    How do you know it cost £1.2k? Did the course offer a qualification or useful stuff to improve your employability elsewhere or was it induction training only relevant to them?
    Quote was right and saw into the future.
    • dickibobboy
    • By dickibobboy 29th Nov 17, 3:38 PM
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    dickibobboy
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 17, 3:38 PM
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 17, 3:38 PM
    I think i’ll leave the contract away for now as i have another interview lined up shortly i hope that i get it.

    The course was beneficial to me for my work and would be at other workplaces however i didn’t really need it as i had enough experience, it was the rest of the tream that needed training on it.

    I worked out the cost based on the course cost and number of people who attended.
    Things that are free in life are great, well most of the time
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 29th Nov 17, 3:57 PM
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    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 3:57 PM
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 3:57 PM
    5 weeks employed - discussion had.
    Employer said what do you want to do and let me leave at no notice.

    (In the end I definitely feel so much better just for getting out.)

    I was set increased targets at end of 2nd review so I began to sense what was going to happen and sure could have failed which to warrant dismissal at month 3 but in the end that would have lead to more anguish so probably for the best. Perhaps something like this might happen especially if there was actually training (appreciate you say you didn't need it) involved? you never know these days.
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 29th Nov 17, 5:59 PM
    • 1,998 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 5:59 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 5:59 PM
    5 weeks employed - discussion had.
    Employer said what do you want to do and let me leave at no notice.

    (In the end I definitely feel so much better just for getting out.)

    I was set increased targets at end of 2nd review so I began to sense what was going to happen and sure could have failed which to warrant dismissal at month 3 but in the end that would have lead to more anguish so probably for the best. Perhaps something like this might happen especially if there was actually training (appreciate you say you didn't need it) involved? you never know these days.
    Originally posted by keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    Helpful as always.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 29th Nov 17, 9:47 PM
    • 6,077 Posts
    • 7,817 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    • #7
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:47 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:47 PM
    Good Afternoon,


    So just under a month ago i left my previous employment to move to another work place.


    Upon the second week of my new employment i and the rest of the department was placed on a paid training course (paid for by our employer)


    I was given my contract only last week that states every term and conditions etc.. of my employment. I have yet to sign it and hand it back in.


    I am now possibly looking to leave my new employer soon (for a few reasons, long story).


    My contract states that i will have to pay back any training or qualification that has been provided to me by my employer if i leave within 2 years of completing a course or qualification.


    I did not know about this and i did not request the training. I was put on the training very soon after starting and my last employer had no such policy to make me even think or question it.


    My notice period is also one month, one month seems a long time for someone who has been in employment for around only 6 weeks before leaving. If i do move that is also another decision and discussion i have to have (dreading it but for the sake of a 15 minute chat about me leaving i will feel happier not having to be there from then on)


    Does anyone have any advice or am I stuck with the £1.2k bill?


    Thanks
    Originally posted by dickibobboy
    You probably aren't stuck with the bill.

    As I understand it, you are only bound by a contract you have agreed to, so you would have had to have known of the terms and to have a agreed to it. Once you know, you may be deemed to have agreed to it, by continuing to show up for work, BUT there are specific rules about withholding money from wages.

    The employer can only recover their actual costs /losses. If this was a external course then they are out of pocket.
    If it was internal, then the costs may have been no different whether or not you were there, which would make it harder for them claim they had suffered any significant loss.

    They can't withhold the cost from your final pay unless you've agreed in writing to it, so from that point of view, the suggestion to cross out that part of the contract before you (and then keep a copy) is one option - when you return it include a note to say that you weren't informed of that element, weren't told before being sent on the course, and haven't agreed to it.

    I think they would struggle to enforce it given that they sent you on the training course *before* giving you the contract, but probably the best thing to do is to return it, marked to say you don't agree to that part of the contract and noting specifically that you were sent on the course on [date] and were not given a copy of the contract or notified of the training cost until [date], after the training was completed, and therefore any provisions in the contract regarding training will not in any event apply to the initial course.

    Keep copies of everything.
    • dickibobboy
    • By dickibobboy 30th Nov 17, 12:54 PM
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    dickibobboy
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:54 PM
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 17, 12:54 PM
    Iím just a little reluctant to hand in the contract right now with crossing out the training part as they would see it as me being difficult. I donít want them to know iím thinking of going yet as it maybe that i canít leave straight away based on the interview i have lined up.

    My idea is that if and when i get my new job i will hand in my notice very soon after to take a few days notice if that. I wouldnít really want to work a full month. They are really good employers, the team is good i just donít feel comfortable here. No doubt if i gave it longer my opinion may change but the interview i have lined up i know i will be 100% if i got the job.
    Things that are free in life are great, well most of the time
    • Cheeky_Monkey
    • By Cheeky_Monkey 30th Nov 17, 1:30 PM
    • 1,407 Posts
    • 2,759 Thanks
    Cheeky_Monkey
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 17, 1:30 PM
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 17, 1:30 PM
    They are really good employers, the team is good i just donít feel comfortable here. No doubt if i gave it longer my opinion may change but the interview i have lined up i know i will be 100% if i got the job.
    Originally posted by dickibobboy
    You might want to add 'psychic ability' to your CV
    I used to be indecisive - now I'm not so sure
    • Energize
    • By Energize 30th Nov 17, 5:46 PM
    • 374 Posts
    • 126 Thanks
    Energize
    You will be considered to have accepted the terms of the contract if you leave it too long, you are only allowed a limited period of time to consider the contract so I would decide what you want to do sharpish!

    With regards to notice, as you have worked there over a month you currently have to give them a weeks notice contractually.
    • dickibobboy
    • By dickibobboy 30th Nov 17, 7:45 PM
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    • 300 Thanks
    dickibobboy
    You might want to add 'psychic ability' to your CV
    Originally posted by Cheeky_Monkey
    Haha, iíve worked there before

    With regards to how long should i give it, i still wouldnít want to sign it even making a note on the training part as iím sure they will realise something.

    Close of play next friday iíll know if iím staying or going.
    Things that are free in life are great, well most of the time
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 1st Dec 17, 10:40 AM
    • 6,077 Posts
    • 7,817 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    If you don't sign it, but still turn up for work, you are accepting it. If you don't accept the part about the training costs you need to say so, now.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 1st Dec 17, 10:46 AM
    • 30,726 Posts
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    getmore4less
    Do you have any evidence of when the contract was given to you?
    • dickibobboy
    • By dickibobboy 1st Dec 17, 2:52 PM
    • 910 Posts
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    dickibobboy
    Unfortunately not, i have as much evidence as they do about giving me it in the first place if needed.
    Things that are free in life are great, well most of the time
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 1st Dec 17, 10:26 PM
    • 18,824 Posts
    • 19,143 Thanks
    jobbingmusician
    IN which case I would be tempted to write to them thanking them for giving you your copy of your proposed contract ('proposed' gives a nod to the fact you aren't going to sign any old rubbish) on [insert date here] and asking if you can have a meeting to discuss issues raised by the contract. One of these will obviously be the fact that they are proposing to implement a charge of which you had no knowledge.

    Do they know you are thinking of leaving? How does it affect your plans if you arrange this meeting in one/two/three weeks, tomorrow, next month? In our place we're all so busy that we can't normally schedule extra meetings within a week, but I appreciate you might be dragged into a meeting almost immediately if anyone suspects you are going to query contractual terms. In any case, you writing to them will form a record from your side of when you received your contract. If they are not devious enough to challenge that record, it could stand you in good stead.
    I'm the Board Guide on the Matched Betting; Referrers and Jobseeking & Training boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

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    • jomay1
    • By jomay1 1st Dec 17, 10:30 PM
    • 3 Posts
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    jomay1
    hi new to this site
    can anyone advice me as I think my employers are breaching my contracted pay, as some of you may know there has been discussions over the national minimum wage to care/support worker who do sleeps, the company I work for have offered settlement figures to a handful of my colleagues with the help of unison, my claim was rejected as I am a senior and I am on a higher rate of pay due to my qualifications and my job role, so they have deducted x amount of money from my hourly rate which is £9.90 an hours (which is stated in my contract) to make up my the national minimum wage hourly rate for the 2 sleeps I do a month (which works out at 16.50 hrs a month ) that's how they have worked it out so on the other hand a support worker who does the same hours as myself and the 2 sleeps a month and gets the 7.50 an hour for there sleeps and in their contract it states that they are on £7.80 an hour therefore across the board it increases their hourly rate to £8.83 and hour where it lowers my hourly rate to £9.41 I know it doesn't sound much but over 2yrs it mounts up and also we are both contracted to 150 a month (on a 4 week pay)
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 2nd Dec 17, 9:35 AM
    • 18,824 Posts
    • 19,143 Thanks
    jobbingmusician
    (Please note that jomay has now worked out how to open their own thread, so please respond on the separate thread rather than this one)
    I'm the Board Guide on the Matched Betting; Referrers and Jobseeking & Training boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    The good folk of the matched betting board are now (I hope!) supporting Macmillan, in memory of Fifigrace. Visit
    https://www.gofundme.com/running-the-leeds-10k-for-macmillan
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