Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Kjack
    • By Kjack 28th Nov 17, 11:42 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Kjack
    Bankruptcy and moving abroad to study to study
    • #1
    • 28th Nov 17, 11:42 PM
    Bankruptcy and moving abroad to study to study 28th Nov 17 at 11:42 PM
    Hello Everyone,

    This is my first time here as the whole situation is pretty new.
    I tried to search the forum but could not find any answer to the questions I have so would be grateful if someone could clarify some things for me if possible.

    So the short story is that I worked for almost 6 years and was made redundant in June this year. During those 6 years, I racked up over £20k in unsecured debt. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find a reasonable employment since then (Initially was looking for a similar salary package but there were not that many roles).

    I used all my redundancy money in the first few months of unemployment and since October I have been supporting myself solely on benefits (JSA and Housing Benefits). As I was not able to keep my repayments all my debts went into arrears and recently I filed for bankruptcy after having spoken to StepChange.

    As I solely support myself with benefits the IPA has not been set up.

    Given the fact that I can barely survive I have decided to leave the UK early next year. The main reasons being: there is a company I had worked with that is most likely willing to employ me and secondly, I would like to continue my education and do an MA course to make sure that I won't end up unemployed again should something go wrong in the future (Master's courses can be much cheaper abroad).

    Apart from that, I am also in a recruitment process here in London (4th interview tomorrow) and there is a chance I will get a job. I am however not sure I will enjoy the job as it is a much lower level position.

    So my questions are:
    1) What are the chances I will be given an IPA if now I will find and start a job? I know it generally depends on disposable income but was wondering whether not having it set up in the first place and being on benefits during the initial assessment change anything?

    2) Assuming I will get a job, will have some disposable income and the official receiver will try to set the IPA would I be able to ask the OR to postpone the IPA for a month or two? It would be mainly because I have no idea what my actual monthly outgoing will be when back working, needing to buy some clothes as the winter is coming (I moved last April and not being aware of the redundancy coming I had donated most of my old winter clothes to charity) and that I will be changing flats again in mid January and will need some money for the moving costs (Housing benefits cover just rent but the electricty bills are hug so I have agreed with the landlord to be able to leave early and they are looking for the new tenants already).

    3) As for moving abroad my question is party similar as would like to know whether the OR will allow me to settle down before agreeing on the IPA? Also, the main reason for me to move abroad would be to continue my education. I have already found a course which costs around €3,000 per annum (full time). There is a possibility to study part-time but the course is paid upfront which means that if I split it into two years I will have to save and pay €1,500 by mid next year so I will have to start saving around €250 per month starting in January.
    Would that be accepted and approved by the OR? I will be applying for the course in January but won't probably know if I am accepted for a few months.

    Generally, I do not mind paying an IPA but the next few months will be pretty hectic for me as I cannot vegetate like I am at the moment anymore and need to do something with my life. Therefore I will not know what my regular spendings will be in the future and even if I start higher income than I am getting now from benefits I will need all of it to organise myself and have more stable life in a few months time.

    Sorry if the post is a bit long. I am aware that it might be slightly confusing but if anyone had any information/advice or experience in similar situations I would be grateful to learn about it.

    Thanks
Page 1
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 29th Nov 17, 8:56 AM
    • 36,205 Posts
    • 153,041 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 8:56 AM
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 8:56 AM
    You are obliged to inform the OR within 3 weeks of a change of circumstances. According to what is often written on this forum, it is generally viewed as 3 weeks from receiving your first paycheck.

    At that point the OR will request a new statement from you, you then negotiate an IPA that could take a few weeks, particularly if the OR needs time to adjust their mindset to the cost of living in your new country of residence. Once you have an IPA you are stuck with it for 3 years.
    • KellyMM
    • By KellyMM 29th Nov 17, 10:53 AM
    • 18 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    KellyMM
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 10:53 AM
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 10:53 AM
    Hi Kjack

    Sorry to hear about your situation but looks like you have very positive plans for the future which is great, and congratulations on considering leaving the UK

    I'm not 100% sure from your post what the options are - staying in London and not studying, work abroad, study abroad (how will you survive with the latter?). However my situation has some similarities so perhaps I can help...

    1) It solely comes down to disposable income. I was unemployed and on benefits when I left the UK but when I found a job in the EU I informed the OR shortly after my first paycheck and was given a form to complete with a new budget. I won't be given an IPA, but bear this in mind (and come on here to make sure you include everything you are entitled to in your budget! Max. up the clothes etc so you can afford your winter stuff). Moving is also a change in circumstances, so whatever comes first - first paycheck or move - you need to tell OR.

    2) From the OR's point of view they are unlikely to be in a big rush as they are so swamped with work. You will be given about 2 weeks to complete the forms and if you do not know what your income/expenditure will be you will be asked to estimate. If things change again, new forms will be needed (and so on and so on). I very much doubt they will give you any grace period to 'get settled' because their job is to know what is going on right now. Think of them not as human but as a robot with a human face and a LONG set of rules inside which they have to follow... and use this to your advantage!

    For example... You are currently on benefits which is a great point to start BR as the OR has no interest in where your money goes because they can't take it. Move abroad, tell the OR and do a new budget with no income. If they ask how you afforded the move, explain that you used the remainder of your benefit money (you usually get a month's grace period after ending benefits). Also be sure to explain that you have been interviewed and accepted for the job, assuming this is the case, and are waiting to start work so you can start your new life and support yourself. TELL THEM - don't ask permission. Then a little bit later, within 3 weeks of your first paycheck inform them again that you have started getting paid. They will give you 2 weeks to complete a new set of forms. All this has hopefully bought you a little bit of time to do what you wanted without getting shot down - and totally within the rules!

    3) This is where I can't help quite so much. Are you bankrupt right now? You could have paid upfront for the course while your finances were your business (not on credit though!) and then gone BR, if you had the money. But of course you probably didn't! No chance of a family member or friend paying for the course for you?

    So you need 250 euro from January to pay for the course, about 55 a week. That's not a lot really if you are working full-time (this is where I'm confused about whether you are studying or working). Why not maximise your budget for food, toiletries, public transport etc etc and use the savings? If you already think you will be facing an IPA you will no doubt already be aware of the need to maximise your budget and minimise the IPA as much as possible. What you do with the leftover cash is up to you. just don't leave it in your account.

    I believe, however, that unless it's a life or death situation I very much doubt the OR will allow you to spend any spare cash 'officially' on education during your BR. Could you wait a year, working abroad, and educate yourself after discharge?

    As a side note, being abroad during bankruptcy buys you a lot of freedom from your terrible credit file, having to explain to your work HR why you are a nil tax code, the British weather, and ever so slightly the OR's prying eye...
    Last edited by KellyMM; 29-11-2017 at 10:57 AM.
    • robotwars69
    • By robotwars69 29th Nov 17, 11:07 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    robotwars69
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 17, 11:07 AM
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 17, 11:07 AM

    I believe, however, that unless it's a life or death situation I very much doubt the OR will allow you to spend any spare cash 'officially' on education during your BR. Could you wait a year, working abroad, and educate yourself after discharge?
    Originally posted by KellyMM
    That may well depend on the OR then, as I raised the possibility of paying for courses during my interview and the OR told me they wouldn't stand in the way of bettering myself with education and qualifications. I don't know what the official stance is though.
    • Kjack
    • By Kjack 29th Nov 17, 5:29 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Kjack
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 5:29 PM
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 5:29 PM
    Thanks for your input.
    I was not aware that you have to report your change of circumstances up to three weeks after having the first paycheck. I thought it was from the moment I sign the contract. That will probably help me to buy some time and be able to figure all things out.

    So the current situation is that I am in the recruitment process for two jobs; one here in London and the second one abroad.
    1) The one in London is a good job and if I pass through the next stage I should get an offer relatively quickly and start soon after.
    2) The job abroad is a better job with a company I know very well. I spoke to them today and they seem keen but currently, they do not have any available position. I was told that they will be hiring soon and need to think where I would fit etc. I told them that I would not be able to move before mid/end January because of the tenancy agreement (I will be leaving the flat most likely at the beginning of January but it can be a bit later. As there is no rush and there is no position available at the moment I might have a definite answer for another month or so.

    So, if I get a job in London I can accept the offer as won't know about the other position and wait with informing the OR till I have a definite answer, i.e. in mid-January tell the OR I received the first salary (end of December) but because (assuming) I will have received an offer from abroad my circumstances will be changing again and then agree on IPA only after my first paycheck abroad.

    I know it might not be a standard scenario but it does seem like January will be a month for me when circumstances might be changing in my life literally every week. Given the fact that setting IPA takes some time I might renegotiate it sooner than I agree to it.

    Just want to make sure that makes sense and is allowed? As I said I do not mind having IPA if I do have some disposable income but if all works out I won't really be able to tell until I have moved.

    My question here is whether my I am allowed to spend any income received before agreeing on the IPA. I am not planning splash it out on massive holiday in the Carribean but if I get a salary and then decide to emigrate I would most likely spend some of that salary on moving costs.
    Or am I only allowed to use the first salary on food and save the rest for the OR?
    I would assume that I am only required to pay for IPA after it has been signed and the payment should be deducted only from the salaries received after signing the agreement?

    Of course, it might go totally other way and I won't get any of those jobs and be stuck here in London for a little bit more. (Fingers crossed that won't be happening).

    As for starting the course at uni abroad, I would have to pay for it. Unfortunately, there is no one who could sponsor the course and the only option for me is to save money. (I could possibly ask some people to lend me some money but as you can imagine going into debt is the last thing I want to do).
    I would not attend the course full time but part time to be able to work (working part-time would probably require working only 4 days a week rather than 5) but I believe I could come to an agreement with an employer to work that time off, for example working longer shifts other days and/or reducing my salary. The only thing is that I won't be able to apply until January and won't know if accepted until some time later. I will worry about it as soon as I know what my future salary will be. Common sense would suggest that as the bankruptcy is supposed to allow a fresh start and my bankruptcy was mainly caused by not being able to find a job educating myself should be seen as some sort of protection from a similar thing happening again.

    Thanks again for all the information. It's very helpul to know what to expect.

    Hoep you have a pleasant day.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 29th Nov 17, 5:47 PM
    • 36,205 Posts
    • 153,041 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 5:47 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 5:47 PM
    I know it might not be a standard scenario but it does seem like January will be a month for me when circumstances might be changing in my life literally every week. Given the fact that setting IPA takes some time I might renegotiate it sooner than I agree to it.
    not a problem. You would just contact the OR again and say that you are changing job moving abroad and so your Soa that isn't yet agreed is about to be out of date immediately and you will rewrite a new one.

    My question here is whether my I am allowed to spend any income received before agreeing on the IPA. I am not planning splash it out on massive holiday in the Carribean but if I get a salary and then decide to emigrate I would most likely spend some of that salary on moving costs.
    I would think that would be fine.

    As for starting the course at uni abroad, I would have to pay for it.
    Any chance the company you will be working for could pay and deduct the costs from your paycheck?
    • Kjack
    • By Kjack 29th Nov 17, 6:37 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Kjack
    • #7
    • 29th Nov 17, 6:37 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Nov 17, 6:37 PM
    Any chance the company you will be working for could pay and deduct the costs from your paycheck?
    I am not sure yet. This is all in the initial stages and I am not sure what package would they offer. However, I think that it might be a good idea to mention it to them and maybe agree on a lower salary and get them to cover the cost of university. It's definitely worth checking with them.

    Thanks
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

614Posts Today

4,359Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • Exactly. Politics already suffered from our adversarial system - pushing people to oppose not compromise. That ha? https://t.co/gETVyA6HWA

  • RT @bbclaurak: Thanks Martin - we know we can?t please all the people all the time (stands by for grief) but try hard to show how it actual?

  • Morning. I'm on my way to my last @GMB 7:40 deals of the week of 2017. This week including gift card warning, free? https://t.co/2dcNviXxsN

  • Follow Martin