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  • FIRST POST
    • AnnAnd
    • By AnnAnd 28th Nov 17, 8:23 PM
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    AnnAnd
    Smi
    • #1
    • 28th Nov 17, 8:23 PM
    Smi 28th Nov 17 at 8:23 PM
    My brother has MS, epilepsy, had a brain operation due to a seizure which resulted in a fractured skull and brain bleed. Due to this he has a very poor memory. He lived with me until 3 years ago when he moved into a flat in sheltered housing. Would he be entitled to claim SMI? He does receive PIP and ESA.
Page 1
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 28th Nov 17, 9:15 PM
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    kingfisherblue
    • #2
    • 28th Nov 17, 9:15 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Nov 17, 9:15 PM
    SMI - Severe Mental Impairment? So that no council tax is payable?

    If this is what you mean, he needs to have a form from the council and ask his doctor to sign it (if the doctor agrees that your brother is severely mentally impaired). I've just spoken to my son's GP about this, as my son has a severe learning disability. I'm dropping the form into the surgery later this week.

    Or - Support for Mortgage Interest? Something completely different, and I'm afraid that I don't know enough about it to advise.
    • trigger fish
    • By trigger fish 28th Nov 17, 9:31 PM
    • 478 Posts
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    trigger fish
    • #3
    • 28th Nov 17, 9:31 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Nov 17, 9:31 PM
    SMI - Severe Mental Impairment? So that no council tax is payable?

    If this is what you mean, he needs to have a form from the council and ask his doctor to sign it (if the doctor agrees that your brother is severely mentally impaired). I've just spoken to my son's GP about this, as my son has a severe learning disability. I'm dropping the form into the surgery later this week.

    Or - Support for Mortgage Interest? Something completely different, and I'm afraid that I don't know enough about it to advise.
    Originally posted by kingfisherblue
    I wondered that as well. But seen as he is moved/moving into sheltered accomodation then it seems extremely unlikely he has a mortgage.
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 28th Nov 17, 10:50 PM
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    IAmWales
    • #4
    • 28th Nov 17, 10:50 PM
    • #4
    • 28th Nov 17, 10:50 PM
    I wondered that as well. But seen as he is moved/moving into sheltered accomodation then it seems extremely unlikely he has a mortgage.
    Originally posted by trigger fish
    Sheltered housing can be privately owned units.

    But given they've just rehashed the severe mental impairment article I'd assume that also.

    Given that he is on benefits, is he not already in receipt of CTB?
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 28th Nov 17, 11:34 PM
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    Mersey
    • #5
    • 28th Nov 17, 11:34 PM
    • #5
    • 28th Nov 17, 11:34 PM
    smi was featured on the Martin Lewis Money Show on ITV last night, so there's been quite a few queries re this in various sections of the MSE forums today.


    It mainly listed dementia and strokes re conditions, but did also mention the recent change meaning that widows and widowers can apply to reclaim Council Tax paid if their late husband or wife qualified or this 100% discount (or 25% discount as Martin explained on the show).


    Sadly reclaiming ie backdating claims for 100% rebates remains 'a postcode lottery' at the moment, but Martin said he has asked the DCLG to issue guidance to councils, as at the moment some are backdating, others are refusing, but in many, staff just seem unaware of smi at all.
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 29th Nov 17, 8:39 AM
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    CIS
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 8:39 AM
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 8:39 AM
    There should be no issues with backdating, the (now former) valuation tribunal president Professor Zellick Q.C. did oversee quite a few cases on backdating. If it went to a tribunal then they should follow the President's previous decisions over how the legislation is to be interpreted - the last tribunal case that I worked on did acknowledge that backdating should be applied as the President had previously determined. What it really needs is a High Court case to make a ruling which would then be 100% binding.

    Due to this he has a very poor memory. He lived with me until 3 years ago when he moved into a flat in sheltered housing.
    Is it a flat he's living in by himself or is it shared accommodation ?
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery as I'm now a self employed Council Tax advisor and consultant with my own Council Tax consultancy business. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 29th Nov 17, 8:47 AM
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    CIS
    • #7
    • 29th Nov 17, 8:47 AM
    • #7
    • 29th Nov 17, 8:47 AM
    It mainly listed dementia and strokes re conditions, but did also mention the recent change meaning that widows and widowers can apply to reclaim Council Tax paid if their late husband or wife qualified or this 100% discount (or 25% discount as Martin explained on the show).
    There's not been any legislative changes in how the reduction can be claimed or applied for - not sure what they are referring to as 'recent changes'.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery as I'm now a self employed Council Tax advisor and consultant with my own Council Tax consultancy business. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 29th Nov 17, 2:35 PM
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    Mersey
    • #8
    • 29th Nov 17, 2:35 PM
    • #8
    • 29th Nov 17, 2:35 PM
    Re backdating - Yes, I agree. However I think the point was more that Councils both weren't advertising the smi rebate on their websites, as well as the fact that some Councils are point blank refusing to backdate claims when asked.


    Re widows/widowers - I didn't record the MLMS, but yes, Martin Lewis definitely referred to a recent change (I think he said Oct but could be wrong), whereby a Govt Minister confirmed that they will now be able to claim rebates retrospectively if their late partner would have qualified for the rebate.
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 29th Nov 17, 4:10 PM
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    kingfisherblue
    • #9
    • 29th Nov 17, 4:10 PM
    • #9
    • 29th Nov 17, 4:10 PM
    I wondered that as well. But seen as he is moved/moving into sheltered accomodation then it seems extremely unlikely he has a mortgage.
    Originally posted by trigger fish
    I assumed that the OP meant Severe Mental Impairment, hence that being the first part of my answer, but then realised that it could possibly mean mortgage interest (even if it's unlikely). That's why I queried it - after all, it could be that the OP's brother had a mortgage before his illness, and has been paying it all this time. Moving into sheltered housing might have prompted the question as to whether he is receiving any help.

    Poor memory, of course, does not necessarily mean severe mental impairment.
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 29th Nov 17, 4:13 PM
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    kingfisherblue
    Re backdating - Yes, I agree. However I think the point was more that Councils both weren't advertising the smi rebate on their websites, as well as the fact that some Councils are point blank refusing to backdate claims when asked.


    Re widows/widowers - I didn't record the MLMS, but yes, Martin Lewis definitely referred to a recent change (I think he said Oct but could be wrong), whereby a Govt Minister confirmed that they will now be able to claim rebates retrospectively if their late partner would have qualified for the rebate.
    Originally posted by Mersey
    Do you have a link for further information please Mersey? My dad had dementia, but I don't think that any of us had ever heard of SMI. It's some years since my dad passed away, and I assume that they will only backdate to a specific date, hence my query.

    Thanks x
    • CIS
    • By CIS 29th Nov 17, 5:04 PM
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    CIS
    It's some years since my dad passed away, and I assume that they will only backdate to a specific date, hence my query.

    Thanks x
    Originally posted by kingfisherblue
    The previous Valuation Tribunal President (Prof. Zellick) found that the '6 year limit' under the Limitation Act gives rise to when the claim needs to made rather than how far back it can go. The '6 year period' starts ticking from when a person could be aware that a claim could be made, once that is met then backdating can be applied for and granted. If you can construct the right technical argument then it will help you case.

    As Prof. Zellick said "The requirement to make a refund of council tax going back some 20 years may seem odd, but it is not the only odd feature of council tax law"

    Best way to go is to apply and then take any fight on, if it arises.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery as I'm now a self employed Council Tax advisor and consultant with my own Council Tax consultancy business. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • Mersey
    • By Mersey 29th Nov 17, 7:28 PM
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    • 781 Thanks
    Mersey
    Do you have a link for further information please Mersey? My dad had dementia, but I don't think that any of us had ever heard of SMI. It's some years since my dad passed away, and I assume that they will only backdate to a specific date, hence my query.

    Thanks x
    Originally posted by kingfisherblue


    Hi, kingfisherblue. Here's the MSE smi article (the MLMS programme should also be available online for a month or two if you meant that):


    www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/reclaim/2017/09/due-a-council-tax-discount-for-severe-mental-impairment-heres-how-to-claim


    Good Luck. My late Grandad received the 100% discount for dementia and on the programme many relatives gained the refund after emailing the local authority (but as said upthread, sadly some Council staff appear unaware of the smi rebate for CT)
    Please be polite to OPs and remember this is a site for Claimants and Appellants to seek redress against their bank, ex-boss or retailer. If they wanted morality or the view of the IoD or Bank they'd ask them.
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 29th Nov 17, 9:42 PM
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    kingfisherblue
    Thank you both. I only found out about it last year. My dad died in 2003, so some time ago now.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 30th Nov 17, 8:01 AM
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    CIS
    Thank you both. I only found out about it last year. My dad died in 2003, so some time ago now.
    Originally posted by kingfisherblue
    You could try for it but I'd expect that the council would say no in my experience and you'd have to fight it. It could be possible to construct an argument if you could show the local authority had an idea at the time that SMI should have applied buy they hadn't followed it up, that argument has worked before in a backdating case.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery as I'm now a self employed Council Tax advisor and consultant with my own Council Tax consultancy business. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 30th Nov 17, 11:49 AM
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    kingfisherblue
    You could try for it but I'd expect that the council would say no in my experience and you'd have to fight it. It could be possible to construct an argument if you could show the local authority had an idea at the time that SMI should have applied buy they hadn't followed it up, that argument has worked before in a backdating case.
    Originally posted by CIS
    Thanks CIS. The council arranged for my dad to attend a day centre, and they put carers in place as well. Twice he was placed in respite care because he fell and ended up in hospital, and the second time it was a place that specialised in dementia care (dreadful place - we brought him home after two days because of fears for his safety).

    The council also provided a bath board through OT, but as it is so long ago, I think it would be difficult to prove that we didn't know about the SMI rule. Also, I doubt if we could prove that the council should have informed my mum. I don't think that she would cope well with a battle, and as a carer myself (and slowly becoming my mum's carer for more and more aspects of her life), I don't think that I have the energy to fight it either.

    Although I feel that it is too late for my mum to receive a backdated refund, I hope that the information is helpful to others.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 30th Nov 17, 12:14 PM
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    CIS
    Although I feel that it is too late for my mum to receive a backdated refund, I hope that the information is helpful to others.
    It's not too late to try - the fact that council may have been aware he was SMI can shift the onus on them to them. Legally, it's for the council to make checks to see if anyone is entitled to a discount - there has been at least one past case where backdating was given because the council failed to follow up on information they had held from the last 90's. It's not a huge task to apply for it and see what the say, the only difficult is having it worded correctly - you can then always choose what do at that point.

    I always tell me clients to have it questioned first with the council, with help if need be, and then consider whether they want a tribunal or not based on the response from the council. Some councils will concede after one letter, others will say "no, you'll need a tribunal".
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery as I'm now a self employed Council Tax advisor and consultant with my own Council Tax consultancy business. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • AnnAnd
    • By AnnAnd 4th Dec 17, 11:43 AM
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    AnnAnd
    He pays single occupancy council tax
    • AnnAnd
    • By AnnAnd 4th Dec 17, 11:46 AM
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    • 1 Thanks
    AnnAnd
    He is in a flat (single occupancy) within a sheltered complex.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 4th Dec 17, 12:23 PM
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    CIS
    He pays single occupancy council tax
    Originally posted by AnnAnd
    That is no barrier to the disregard and exemption being applied. Providing that all of the occupiers are disregarded as SMI then a Class U exemption can be applied for.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery as I'm now a self employed Council Tax advisor and consultant with my own Council Tax consultancy business. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
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