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  • FIRST POST
    • starrybear
    • By starrybear 28th Nov 17, 3:56 PM
    • 56Posts
    • 5Thanks
    starrybear
    PIP advice - please help
    • #1
    • 28th Nov 17, 3:56 PM
    PIP advice - please help 28th Nov 17 at 3:56 PM
    Please bear with me - this is a long one.

    I had an appraisal in January this year, where my work was identified as not being up to scratch.

    I was told that I'd be put on a PIP, but nothing happened with this for a few months.

    I suffered a miscarriage in March and when I returned to work, the PIP wasn't mentioned again until mid April, as they were aware that I wasn't in a great frame of mind.

    I was called into a meeting in May to discuss the terms of the PIP and these terms were then put in writing and given to me formally at the beginning of June - a 12 week plan to be reviewed every 4 weeks.

    I can't remember if I signed the plan or not (I think I may have) - my employers say that I did, but I don't have a signed copy.

    A few days after that, it all got to me and I had a nervous breakdown, resulting in me being off for 5 weeks, returning to work late July.

    Since then, I've been deeply unhappy, however, the PIP again wasn't mentioned until w/c 13th November, when I was sent an electronic copy of the original PIP.

    I attended a meeting with my manager on the Friday of that week, and having had time to review the PIP, I expressed concern that there were several points that I felt were not specific or measurable enough. (I feel like I'm being set up to fail.)

    She became quite angry at this and stated that I had signed the original plan, so must have agreed with it. I argued that because the end date of the original plan had passed, that this needed to be a new plan, and I should have the opportunity to suggest amendments or clarifications, whereby the 12 week timescale would begin again. I also pointed out that, at the time the original plan was given to me, I was not in the right frame of mind to take it all in, which may be by-the-by, but it's true.

    Forward to today, and she's put a meeting in the diary to discuss any amendments, but has told me I'm already 2 weeks into my PIP, and the formal 4 week review (with HR in attendance) is due to take place in just under 2 weeks time.

    Does this sound like it's been handled correctly and fairly? I'm willing to be told that it has, but it doesn't feel right?

    (For complete disclosure, I'm going to hand in my 12 weeks notice anyway, but want to know if I've been badly treated?)

    If you've made it this far, thank you!
Page 1
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 28th Nov 17, 4:06 PM
    • 4,878 Posts
    • 9,832 Thanks
    marliepanda
    • #2
    • 28th Nov 17, 4:06 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Nov 17, 4:06 PM
    Its hard to comment. however between the PIP initially being mentioned, you have been off due your miscarriage, and then off again for 5 weeks with a nervous breakdown. The company were probably tryinig to find a good balance between 'this PIP is something which needs to be addressed' and 'lets not push it whilst there are clearly other factors at play.'

    It seems theyve taken the end of July (when you returned from your breakdown) as the start of the 12 weeks. by my reckoning, August, Sept and October were your 12 weeks, and they sent the review at the start of November, after 12 weeks unbroken work for you to work on the PIP.

    Sorry, I misread, theyve just started up the original PIP with your 12 weeks starting from November 13th, having given you chance tgo settle back in after your two bouts of absence.

    Without being present for the meetings, I dont know, but overall they seem to have allowed you time to recover from your two issues, but also do want to coontinue with the PIP
    Last edited by marliepanda; 28-11-2017 at 4:09 PM.
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • starrybear
    • By starrybear 28th Nov 17, 5:13 PM
    • 56 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    starrybear
    • #3
    • 28th Nov 17, 5:13 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Nov 17, 5:13 PM
    Thanks Marliepanda. I understand that they're within their rights to invoke the PIP again, but should this not be started from the meeting I have this Friday to iron out the concerns that I have regarding some if the clauses in the original PIP?
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 28th Nov 17, 6:57 PM
    • 4,175 Posts
    • 6,865 Thanks
    sangie595
    • #4
    • 28th Nov 17, 6:57 PM
    • #4
    • 28th Nov 17, 6:57 PM
    Whether you have been treated badly is a matter of opinion. You haven't been treated illegally. Anda PIP isn't negotiable. It's on the employers terms - they are the ones looking for improved performance and they can say anything they like in it. If that results in an unfair dismissal, that's their problem, and something they have to defend. But you don't get to tell them that you don't agree. So no, you haven't been treated illegally, and I have no opinion on how fair it is. I don't know anything about your performance or the expectations of the employer.

    And I'm really sorry for your personal circumstances, which are positively awful. But I think that you are quite lucky your employer had been holding off on taking this further because of those circumstances. A good many wouldn't have. If you are quitting anyway, then personally I'd get it over with and go now. But that's a personal choice. But if you chose to stay then it goes ahead and goes on your record for future references.
    • trailingspouse
    • By trailingspouse 29th Nov 17, 8:38 AM
    • 2,452 Posts
    • 3,511 Thanks
    trailingspouse
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 8:38 AM
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 8:38 AM
    And over and above the time you are spending trying to show that you have been treated unfairly, how much time are you spending on improving your performance?

    They sound to me like they've been more than reasonable - the appraisal was in January, so I'm guessing your performance hasn't been up to scratch for the best part of a year.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 29th Nov 17, 9:05 AM
    • 30,783 Posts
    • 18,391 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:05 AM
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:05 AM
    She became quite angry at this and stated that I had signed the original plan, so must have agreed with it. I argued that because the end date of the original plan had passed, that this needed to be a new plan, and I should have the opportunity to suggest amendments or clarifications, whereby the 12 week timescale would begin again. I also pointed out that, at the time the original plan was given to me, I was not in the right frame of mind to take it all in, which may be by-the-by, but it's true.

    Forward to today, and she's put a meeting in the diary to discuss any amendments, but has told me I'm already 2 weeks into my PIP, and the formal 4 week review (with HR in attendance) is due to take place in just under 2 weeks time.
    Originally posted by starrybear

    The first point is covered by Sangie.

    This next meeting is where you get the chance to go over the improvements required and discuss where you are improving and what you need to do for those areas there is insufficient progress.

    If there are goals objectives you don't think you will ever be able to meet then you need to help identify how you can, training,time whatever. If you don't think they can measure ask how they will measure so you do know.

    don't forget these plans are fluid if by trying to fix something you drop the ball on something else that can be added in.


    generally when under-performing and put on PIP its too late to argue the toss about what can be achieved, the initial focus should be how to improve and it will become apparent if there are target that are unobtainable and need adjusting or longer to get there.
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