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    • Leeds loiner
    • By Leeds loiner 28th Nov 17, 3:08 PM
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    Leeds loiner
    Can I retain my benefits with a deed of variation& inheritance in a trust managed by
    • #1
    • 28th Nov 17, 3:08 PM
    Can I retain my benefits with a deed of variation& inheritance in a trust managed by 28th Nov 17 at 3:08 PM
    Hope somebody who has been in a similar situation can help me.My parents died a few years ago,leaving everything to me.Naturally after selling their house,my dwp benefit ESA stopped.Since then,my mental health has deteriorated considerably. I have borderline/unemotionally unstable personality disorder,where I can get paranoia,have agitated fits and take reckless risks with money.I also suffer with acute anxiety and depression.Most worryingly,my memory is deteriorating and my psychiatrist is testing me for early onset dementia.
    Because of all tjis,especially my tendency to take risks with money because of the BPD,and my possibly having early onset dementia,is it possible that if a solicitor does a deed of variation with trustees controlling the inheritance,the DWP will allow me to resume claiming benefits??-the solicitor has said She has never had trouble getting the DWP to agree to it in the past,but every case is assessed individually.
    Woukd the DWP allow this,or would they see it as deprivation of capital?
Page 1
    • Leeds loiner
    • By Leeds loiner 28th Nov 17, 3:14 PM
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    Leeds loiner
    • #2
    • 28th Nov 17, 3:14 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Nov 17, 3:14 PM
    I'm not sure whe there the DWP would accept this,but with possibly diminishing mental faculties and a personality disorder is this likely?
    • w06
    • By w06 28th Nov 17, 3:43 PM
    • 380 Posts
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    w06
    • #3
    • 28th Nov 17, 3:43 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Nov 17, 3:43 PM
    No idea on your question but isn't the better solution for your solicitor or whoever to help you set up somebody else having control of your money and they provide you with enough to live on but reign in the risky spending? That way you'd only need to be claiming benefits once the inheritance has fallen below the savings limit.
    • Ames
    • By Ames 28th Nov 17, 4:37 PM
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    Ames
    • #4
    • 28th Nov 17, 4:37 PM
    • #4
    • 28th Nov 17, 4:37 PM
    It's my understanding that trust deeds only work if the will stipulated that the money should be kept in one. You can't set one up yourself and be able to claim benefits.

    The cost of someone like a solicitor organising your finances so you can't access the whole amount would be unlikely to be deprivation of capital though so that could come out of the capital.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.

    Reading the alphabet in 2017. 21/100
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    • McKneff
    • By McKneff 28th Nov 17, 4:45 PM
    • 35,706 Posts
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    McKneff
    • #5
    • 28th Nov 17, 4:45 PM
    • #5
    • 28th Nov 17, 4:45 PM
    Wouldnt you rather have a decent standard of living using your own funds rather than virtual poverty on benefits. I know which i would rather do.
    And as an aside, my brother had early onset dementia at 49 years of age. It was very aggressive and took only 2 to 3 years to kill him .
    make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
    and we will never, ever return.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 28th Nov 17, 5:07 PM
    • 23,634 Posts
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    xylophone
    • #6
    • 28th Nov 17, 5:07 PM
    • #6
    • 28th Nov 17, 5:07 PM
    Unless your solicitor knows otherwise, my understanding is that a Deed of Variation needs to be completed within two years of the death so you appear to be out of time -


    https://www.gov.uk/alter-a-will-after-a-death

    even were that not the case, a DOV would not have helped you to keep means tested benefits.

    http://www.dootsons.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Dootsons-Deeds-of-Variation-sr.pdf

    However, if a beneficiary is receiving means tested benefits, a Deed
    of Variation cannot be used to redirect his entitlement from the deceasedís
    estate to prevent benefits being disallowed because under these
    circumstances it will be seen as a gift from the beneficiary.


    In the unfortunate circumstances in which you find yourself, it would appear that while you have capacity, you should grant your solicitor/a family member/trusted friend etc Power Of Attorney?

    This would not restore means tested benefits but could prevent the overspending if you relinquished all control of your finances to the Attorney?

    There are some benefits that are not means tested - it may be that you would become entitled at some point in the future?

    I have seen comments on the board that not all solicitors are knowledgeable about means tested benefits.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 28th Nov 17, 6:02 PM
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    sheramber
    • #7
    • 28th Nov 17, 6:02 PM
    • #7
    • 28th Nov 17, 6:02 PM
    Why do you need to go back on benefits?

    What happens to the money in your inheritance?

    Why not continue use that money to live off as you have been doing with some restrictions on accessing it?
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 28th Nov 17, 6:07 PM
    • 4,243 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    • #8
    • 28th Nov 17, 6:07 PM
    • #8
    • 28th Nov 17, 6:07 PM
    What is required here is somebody to control the finances if the OP is unable to do so effectively on their own. That could potentially be done by a trust but more commonly it is done by having an appointee to manage their affairs.
    That would not mean they are able to claim Income Related benefit, because they still have access to the funds albeit in a controlled manner.
    • Ames
    • By Ames 28th Nov 17, 7:42 PM
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    Ames
    • #9
    • 28th Nov 17, 7:42 PM
    • #9
    • 28th Nov 17, 7:42 PM
    Wouldnt you rather have a decent standard of living using your own funds rather than virtual poverty on benefits. I know which i would rather do.
    And as an aside, my brother had early onset dementia at 49 years of age. It was very aggressive and took only 2 to 3 years to kill him .
    Originally posted by McKneff
    It depends what you call a decent standard of living. When I got an inheritance I was told I could only live off it at the rate of benefits I'd been claiming. Drawing down significantly more each year could have been deprivation of capital.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.

    Reading the alphabet in 2017. 21/100
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    • Sexyscorp66
    • By Sexyscorp66 28th Nov 17, 10:02 PM
    • 10 Posts
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    Sexyscorp66
    Errant solicitor
    It looks like the solicitor-who is actually a partner in the probate department of a major firm.of solicitors-has either got it badly wrong-or if I'm very cynical (maybe too cynical)-probably realises this is the case but just wants the business.It would cost £750 to set it up.
    In terms of nominating somebody to steward my finances,maybe a power of attorney woukd be cheaper to get.
    The potential trustees have suggested using it to buy a house,to.give me some security.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 28th Nov 17, 10:10 PM
    • 4,243 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    It depends what you call a decent standard of living. When I got an inheritance I was told I could only live off it at the rate of benefits I'd been claiming. Drawing down significantly more each year could have been deprivation of capital.
    Originally posted by Ames
    Expenditure far above the maximum benefits available, not the amount any one person may be entitled to, may raise questions. If somebody is only in receipt of JSA but has their own house for example, couldn't possibly live on the equivalent of £73 per week if they came into an inheritance. Each case would be view on its own merits.
    • venison
    • By venison 28th Nov 17, 10:36 PM
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    venison
    Instead of trustees etc would it not be better if they had power of attorney so that you could live off the £ and not benefits?
    I am now a Board Guide on the Credit card board and the Loan board and Benefits board (But give me time to learn the ropes thanks).
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 28th Nov 17, 10:44 PM
    • 1,826 Posts
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    IAmWales
    It looks like the solicitor-who is actually a partner in the probate department of a major firm.of solicitors-has either got it badly wrong-or if I'm very cynical (maybe too cynical)-probably realises this is the case but just wants the business.It would cost £750 to set it up.
    In terms of nominating somebody to steward my finances,maybe a power of attorney woukd be cheaper to get.
    The potential trustees have suggested using it to buy a house,to.give me some security.
    Originally posted by Sexyscorp66
    Are you the original poster?

    Do you want the responsibility that comes with home ownership? You'd need to make sure you had sufficient funds left to cover maintenance, insurances etc.
    • Ames
    • By Ames 28th Nov 17, 11:29 PM
    • 16,581 Posts
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    Ames
    It looks like the solicitor-who is actually a partner in the probate department of a major firm.of solicitors-has either got it badly wrong-or if I'm very cynical (maybe too cynical)-probably realises this is the case but just wants the business.It would cost £750 to set it up.
    In terms of nominating somebody to steward my finances,maybe a power of attorney woukd be cheaper to get.
    The potential trustees have suggested using it to buy a house,to.give me some security.
    Originally posted by Sexyscorp66
    In my experience probate lawyers don't understand the benefits system. A poster on here has a signature that goes something along the lines of 'don't attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance'. It seems apt here.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.

    Reading the alphabet in 2017. 21/100
    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 29th Nov 17, 10:24 PM
    • 8,606 Posts
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    teddysmum
    A trust's costs are not just setup fees. My grandchildren each are to receive some money to be held in trust and though the inheritances will probably be invested in the same places,with the same results, each child has to pay £15 +VAT,ie £18,every month to receive a monthly update ,so,in their case £54 for at most £18's worth of information, for the length of the trusteeship.


    If you buy a house,which will have to be a cash sale, as no income means no mortgage, you will have to pay all your own maintenance and will get less benefit, as you won't get housing benefit.
    • GunJack
    • By GunJack 30th Nov 17, 10:01 AM
    • 9,879 Posts
    • 7,356 Thanks
    GunJack
    If the OP is suffering the effects of their conditions, wouldn't PIP be appropriate, especially as it isn't means-tested?
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......
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