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    • UKParliament
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    • By UKParliament Verified User verified user 28th Nov 17, 1:08 PM
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    UKParliament
    MPs to debate women affected by state pension age increases
    • #1
    • 28th Nov 17, 1:08 PM
    MPs to debate women affected by state pension age increases 28th Nov 17 at 1:08 PM
    On Wednesday 29 November, MPs will debate the subject of women affected by state pension age increases.

    The motion to be debated is:

    That this House calls on the Government to improve transitional arrangements for women born on or after 6 April 1951 who have been adversely affected by the acceleration of the increase to the state pension age.

    You can watch the debate live or catch-up later on Parliament TV.
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Page 3
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 4th Dec 17, 1:57 PM
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    Pollycat
    WASPI want all women born in the 1950s to receive their State Pension at 60, with missed payments backdated. Their members think they are going to get a £30,000+ cheque in the post from DWP when the government caves in.

    All this stuff about notice and transitional arrangements is flim-flam. WASPI's modus operandi from the beginning has been to make specific promises in private and vague demands in public.

    Whether the further debates achieve anything is not a concern to the WASPI leadership; it just means more first-class train journeys to London, more appearances on TV, more donations and more champagne.
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    I'm sure lots of us can remember the big difference between the wording in the online petition and what was posted on the WASPI website.
    Duplicitous at best.
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 4th Dec 17, 2:38 PM
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    Silvertabby
    Not strictly accurate.
    At some point in 2011, I was expecting to get my state pension in April 2017.
    A little later in 2011, I was told it was put back to July 2018.
    That is not '8 years notice'. Posted by Pollycat
    I have every sympathy with the '1954' ladies. If the WASPI campaign was set up to just unroll the 2011 acceleration, then I may have supported it (even though I, born in 1956, wouldn't have gained anything).

    However, their insistance that all ladies born on or before 31 December 1959 should get their pensions from 60 is just beyond ridiculous.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 4th Dec 17, 3:02 PM
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    Pollycat
    I have every sympathy with the '1954' ladies. If the WASPI campaign was set up to just unroll the 2011 acceleration, then I may have supported it (even though I, born in 1956, wouldn't have gained anything).

    However, their insistance that all ladies born on or before 31 December 1959 should get their pensions from 60 is just beyond ridiculous.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    But.....but......what about the 1953 ladies? (of which I'm one).
    Actually, I only copped for a 15 month extension to my state pension age, several friends got hit with 18 months.
    • redux
    • By redux 4th Dec 17, 3:08 PM
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    redux
    Not strictly accurate.
    At some point in 2011, I was expecting to get my state pension in April 2017.
    A little later in 2011, I was told it was put back to July 2018.
    That is not '8 years notice'.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Apologies if what I said doesn't quite cover your circumstance.

    I've tried checking a couple of things, to see whether I should correct myself.

    Women's pension age was to be raised to 65 by November 2018, and both men and women further to 66 by April 2020. This was announced in October 2011 in the Pensions Bill, but was also previously announced in the Spending Review in October 2010.

    This is where I rightly or wrongly got the 8 years generalisation from, namely October 2010 to November 2018.

    Apparently some people alleged that the October 2010 announcement breached the coalition agreement, which said "We will...hold a review to set the date at which the state pension age starts to rise to 66, although it will not be sooner than 2016 for men and 2020 for women."

    66 by 2020 doesn't breach that, but if the scale was sliding from 65 in 2018 to 66 in 2020, I can see that over 65 in between might be arguable.

    That was addressed by stretching the transition period 65 to 66, by 6 months to October 2020 (Pensions Bill in Oct 2011).

    What I've just been reading doesn't cover the women on the earlier transition 60 to 65. It sounds from your post that some of those were also speeded up.

    Even then, some of these details were set out in the 2010 election campaign, and even though some of the manifesto stuff doesn't happen, there was also the coalition agreement, so although you say less than 8 years formal notice for you maybe it could be seen coming ...

    I have every sympathy with the '1954' ladies. If the WASPI campaign was set up to just unroll the 2011 acceleration, then I may have supported it (even though I, born in 1956, wouldn't have gained anything).

    However, their insistance that all ladies born on or before 31 December 1959 should get their pensions from 60 is just beyond ridiculous.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    If your second paragraph is still in play in some arguments, I agree with you it's ridiculous.

    The transition 60 to 65 has been known since 1995, and was generously set to happen gradually 2010 to 2020. Chopping a couple of years from that at shorter notice a few years ago might have a bit of attention if necessary, but shouldn't throw too much of the rest wide open again.
    Last edited by redux; 04-12-2017 at 3:23 PM.
    • stokesley
    • By stokesley 4th Dec 17, 3:51 PM
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    stokesley
    But.....but......what about the 1953 ladies? (of which I'm one).
    .
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Hear hear!
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 4th Dec 17, 4:06 PM
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    Silvertabby
    But.....but......what about the 1953 ladies? (of which I'm one).
    Actually, I only copped for a 15 month extension to my state pension age, several friends got hit with 18 months. Posted by Pollycat
    Sorry - should have said the 1953 and 1954 ladies !
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 4th Dec 17, 4:19 PM
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    Pollycat
    Sorry - should have said the 1953 and 1954 ladies !
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    I knew what you meant, really.
    We've had enough conversations about it on various threads.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 4th Dec 17, 5:13 PM
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    Pollycat
    Apologies if what I said doesn't quite cover your circumstance.

    I've tried checking a couple of things, to see whether I should correct myself.

    Women's pension age was to be raised to 65 by November 2018, and both men and women further to 66 by April 2020. This was announced in October 2011 in the Pensions Bill, but was also previously announced in the Spending Review in October 2010.

    This is where I rightly or wrongly got the 8 years generalisation from, namely October 2010 to November 2018.

    Apparently some people alleged that the October 2010 announcement breached the coalition agreement, which said "We will...hold a review to set the date at which the state pension age starts to rise to 66, although it will not be sooner than 2016 for men and 2020 for women."

    66 by 2020 doesn't breach that, but if the scale was sliding from 65 in 2018 to 66 in 2020, I can see that over 65 in between might be arguable.

    That was addressed by stretching the transition period 65 to 66, by 6 months to October 2020 (Pensions Bill in Oct 2011).

    What I've just been reading doesn't cover the women on the earlier transition 60 to 65. It sounds from your post that some of those were also speeded up.

    Even then, some of these details were set out in the 2010 election campaign, and even though some of the manifesto stuff doesn't happen, there was also the coalition agreement, so although you say less than 8 years formal notice for you maybe it could be seen coming ...
    Originally posted by redux
    There's no need to apologise and it's up to you whether you correct yourself or not but even if I had been given notice in October 2010 that still only gave me 6 years and 6 months notice of the change in my state pension age. i.e. from October 2010 to April 2017 (the date I was given waaaaay back in 1995.

    Maybe some women did have 8 years notice but not me.

    You may think we should have seen it coming but knowing since 1995 that I'd get my pension at age 63 years and 6 months, to be told with less than 7 years notice that it was to be extended by a further 15 months (18 months for some women slightly older than me - it was originally planned to be extended by 24 months) was certainly not on my radar.
    • redux
    • By redux 4th Dec 17, 7:16 PM
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    redux
    There's no need to apologise and it's up to you whether you correct yourself or not but even if I had been given notice in October 2010 that still only gave me 6 years and 6 months notice of the change in my state pension age. i.e. from October 2010 to April 2017 (the date I was given waaaaay back in 1995.

    Maybe some women did have 8 years notice but not me.

    You may think we should have seen it coming but knowing since 1995 that I'd get my pension at age 63 years and 6 months, to be told with less than 7 years notice that it was to be extended by a further 15 months (18 months for some women slightly older than me - it was originally planned to be extended by 24 months) was certainly not on my radar.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    As I said in the rest of my post, after the second quote, maybe those cases can be reviewed to some extent.

    But if it's true they are also demanding that anyone born in the 1950s should retire at 60, this means cancelling changes made as long ago as 1995, which is more than half a career by 2025.

    As per:

    However, their insistance that all ladies born on or before 31 December 1959 should get their pensions from 60 is just beyond ridiculous.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    Last edited by redux; 04-12-2017 at 7:19 PM.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 4th Dec 17, 7:47 PM
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    Pollycat

    But if it's true they are also demanding that anyone born in the 1950s should retire at 60, this means cancelling changes made as long ago as 1995, which is more than half a career by 2025.
    Originally posted by redux
    And that's why what WASPI want is so ill-thought out, it's nonsensical.
    • Daniel54
    • By Daniel54 4th Dec 17, 8:17 PM
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    Daniel54
    The 2011 Act was passed 3rd November so technically less than 10 years notice to anyone born before 3rd November 1956

    Under this act,men’s pension age also increased by up to a year,starting with those born on or after 6th December 1953 .

    The Act did not uniquely impact women ,but also an estimated 2.2million men who should not be whitewashed out of the picture.There are issues of gender equality completely ignored by those who suggest a female only remedy is remotely possible.

    The 2011 Act was undoubtedly poor legislation,in particular for the 500,000 women who received less than 10 years notice of an increase of a year or more

    Maybe something might have been achieved for this particular cohort of women,but Waspi’s insistence on the one true ask scuppered even this remote possibility

    Meanwhile extension of the state pension age will have adverse affects on those with the lowest earnings and lowest savings,whatever their gender , but our MPs seem to prefer to curry favour with Waspi,despite their unaffordable and discriminatory campaign aims.
    • Paul_Herring
    • By Paul_Herring 5th Dec 17, 9:45 AM
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    Paul_Herring
    but also an estimated 2.2million men who should not be whitewashed out of the picture
    Of course they can. This is GRASPI we're talking about - they don't care about men. Or anyone born after 31st December 1959.
    Conjugating the verb 'to be":
    -o I am humble -o You are attention seeking -o She is Nadine Dorries
    • jem16
    • By jem16 5th Dec 17, 9:50 AM
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    jem16
    The 2011 Act was passed 3rd November so technically less than 10 years notice to anyone born before 3rd November 1956
    Originally posted by Daniel54
    Oh good I can now jump up and down and shout snotfair as I just fit into this by about 4 months.

    However I wonít as I can manage perfectly well for my extra year and would rather help went to where itís really needed.

    The 2011 Act was undoubtedly poor legislation,in particular for the 500,000 women who received less than 10 years notice of an increase of a year or more
    With some of those only being a couple of months extra, Iíd perhaps even concentrate on the 300,000 with the 18 months increase. Not all of these will have a problem with it though.

    Maybe something might have been achieved for this particular cohort of women,but Waspiís insistence on the one true ask scuppered even this remote possibility
    Very true.

    Meanwhile extension of the state pension age will have adverse affects on those with the lowest earnings and lowest savings,whatever their gender , but our MPs seem to prefer to curry favour with Waspi,despite their unaffordable and discriminatory campaign aims.
    Wouldnít it be wonderful if a debate actually concentrated on helping the worst affected and came up with a fully costed solution that the government would find difficult to ignore?
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 5th Dec 17, 10:09 AM
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    Pollycat
    With some of those only being a couple of months extra, I’d perhaps even concentrate on the 300,000 with the 18 months increase. Not all of these will have a problem with it though.
    Originally posted by jem16
    I'm a 15 month increase woman, and whilst I think the (relatively) short notice is unfair, I'm not jumping in a First Class carriage to London, swilling champagne & demanding unreasonable action by the Government.

    Wouldn’t it be wonderful if a debate actually concentrated on helping the worst affected and came up with a fully costed solution that the government would find difficult to ignore?
    Originally posted by jem16
    Yes, wouldn't it be wonderful.
    But no chance with WASPI.
    • jem16
    • By jem16 5th Dec 17, 10:14 AM
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    jem16
    I'm a 15 month increase woman, and whilst I think the (relatively) short notice is unfair, I'm not jumping in a First Class carriage to London, swilling champagne & demanding unreasonable action by the Government.
    Originally posted by Pollycat

    Some of them are even planning a 2 day event with the Back to 60 demo and the WASPI demo on consecutive days.

    It certainly is giving the government the very strong impression that itís pension at 60 and nothing less will do.
    • Paul_Herring
    • By Paul_Herring 5th Dec 17, 10:17 AM
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    Paul_Herring
    Some of them are even planning a 2 day event with the Back to 60 demo and the WASPI demo on consecutive days.
    Originally posted by jem16

    Don't they have jobs or job centres to go to? Wish I had that much time off, and money, to go gallivanting off to London every week...

    Conjugating the verb 'to be":
    -o I am humble -o You are attention seeking -o She is Nadine Dorries
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 5th Dec 17, 11:45 AM
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    Malthusian
    Wouldnít it be wonderful if a debate actually concentrated on helping the worst affected and came up with a fully costed solution that the government would find difficult to ignore?
    Originally posted by jem16
    There already is a fully costed solution. If you're of working age you can get a job. If you're of working age and can't find a job you can claim JSA. If you're incapable of working due to illness or disability you can claim ESA. (Or Universal Credit if applicable.)
    • Terron
    • By Terron 5th Dec 17, 1:54 PM
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    Terron
    However, their insistance that all ladies born on or before 31 December 1959 should get their pensions from 60 is just beyond ridiculous.
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    As a man born in 1959 whose pension age was put back to 66 in 1995 I agree.
    • jem16
    • By jem16 6th Dec 17, 11:47 AM
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    jem16
    As a man born in 1959 whose pension age was put back to 66 in 1995 I agree.
    Originally posted by Terron
    1995 Act didn't affect men. It would have been the 2011 Act that changed your spa to 66.
    • Terron
    • By Terron 6th Dec 17, 3:32 PM
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    Terron
    1995 Act didn't affect men. It would have been the 2011 Act that changed your spa to 66.
    Originally posted by jem16
    No. It was the 2007 Act I remembered that the 2010 act did not change my pension age but forgot when it was initially changed.
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