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    • Muscle750
    • By Muscle750 27th Nov 17, 6:53 PM
    • 906Posts
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    Muscle750
    Xmas issue
    • #1
    • 27th Nov 17, 6:53 PM
    Xmas issue 27th Nov 17 at 6:53 PM
    In our dept where there are 5 of us, Two of us have booked xmas off which we did in the early part of the year, two others have booked it also yet alot later even thou the powers that be knew we booked ours early etc this leaves just one in our dept. Last week a meeting was called and were told that we would have to work at least one day if not more of the three days as they needed to get work out and were told that the management want their bonus !!!!!!!
    However of the two that booked it alot later rumours are that they are point blank refusing to work anyday of the three althou this isnt confirmed.
    When it was raised that we had booked it at start of year and why did they let more book it after which in all fairness we dont see why we should have to work it because its all down to mis management.
    Then they got very nasty and threatened all sorts basically throwing the toys out the pram. If its booked off and signed off by the management i cant see they can then threaten all sorts if we dont give in. If the one whose rumoured to point blank refuse to work any then this will strike the rest of us as unfair.
Page 2
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 28th Nov 17, 9:06 PM
    • 6,356 Posts
    • 4,865 Thanks
    ohreally
    Given the history, why are you not unionised now???
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 29th Nov 17, 9:22 AM
    • 5,666 Posts
    • 6,466 Thanks
    Takeaway_Addict
    Given the history, why are you not unionised now???
    Originally posted by ohreally
    Given the history and how much he dislikes the company...why has he not moved on?

    Can't be that bad...
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • bouicca21
    • By bouicca21 29th Nov 17, 10:50 AM
    • 3,288 Posts
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    bouicca21
    I used to work somewhere where Xmas to New Year was really busy. It was accepted practice that we the managers would do all the work that week so that junior staff could have time off. It was manic as there really weren't enough of us to cover. New boss, unwilling to sacrifice his own Xmas, made it a rota. Everyone got a chance at Xmas leave every other year, with an exception for anyone with a child under 5 (thus exempting himself).

    Totally self seeking, but it worked really well for the rest of us.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 29th Nov 17, 11:58 AM
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    TELLIT01
    Everyone got a chance at Xmas leave every other year, with an exception for anyone with a child under 5 (thus exempting himself).
    Originally posted by bouicca21
    I know it's going off from the original question, but it does hack me off when people use the "Well I've got children" argument to support their claim for holiday dates, Christmas or otherwise. Having children is a lifestyle choice and I think it's unreasonable to expect other people to be affected by those choices. People who wanted children but for whatever reason never had them are just getting their noses rubbed in it.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 29th Nov 17, 12:43 PM
    • 2,011 Posts
    • 5,521 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    I used to work somewhere where Xmas to New Year was really busy. It was accepted practice that we the managers would do all the work that week so that junior staff could have time off. It was manic as there really weren't enough of us to cover. New boss, unwilling to sacrifice his own Xmas, made it a rota. Everyone got a chance at Xmas leave every other year, with an exception for anyone with a child under 5 (thus exempting himself).

    Totally self seeking, but it worked really well for the rest of us.
    Originally posted by bouicca21
    We do every other year as well and it works, nobody is resentful, everybody understands the reasoning, and there are no automatic exemptions for your family circumstances whether that's kids under 5, or an older or even adult child with a learning disability, or any of the many other reasons why somebody might want Christmas off, not just kids! For genuine reasons why one particular Christmas is more important such as a terminal illness in the family, exceptions are made and nobody objects.

    Under 5 doesn't make sense anyway, a 7 or 8 year old child is going to care a lot more about Christmas than a 6 month old or 2 year old!
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 29th Nov 17, 12:45 PM
    • 2,011 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel
    People who wanted children but for whatever reason never had them are just getting their noses rubbed in it.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    I know right? I know somebody who's just had a baby after 5 rounds of IVF and several miscarriages. Can't imagine how it would have felt to be told year after year "Not managed to get that baby yet? Ok see you on the 25th again!"
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 29th Nov 17, 1:19 PM
    • 15,814 Posts
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    motorguy
    Aye, I like your post.

    I also like management's proposal for everyone to work one of the three days in question. Seems like a very fair way of doing things*

    *Normally I'm all for the "first come first served" rule, but Christmas is slightly different in that MOST/ALL people will want it off... I don't like the idea of penalising people here just because they weren't first past the post!

    I couldn't stand working in OP's department though! Everyone out to get each other, no team work and pulling together. No respect for other people's desires to see their friends and family over Christmas. I wouldn't mind if it was a huge team, but doing that sort of stuff in a team of 5 people?? Nahh....

    I hope karma bites you in the bum OP and the other 3 members of the team put in a 2018 Christmas holiday request at 8am on the very first working day of January If they have any sense they would!
    Originally posted by stuartJo1989
    +1

    They sound like a horrible bunch to work with.

    Ironically, the O/P seems to have had an issue when apparently "the same people every year" got Christmas off, and now has an issue when management are saying everyone needs to do their share?

    No pleasing some people.....
    Last edited by motorguy; 29-11-2017 at 1:24 PM.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • Samsung_Note2
    • By Samsung_Note2 29th Nov 17, 1:35 PM
    • 205 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    Samsung_Note2
    I know it's going off from the original question, but it does hack me off when people use the "Well I've got children" argument to support their claim for holiday dates, Christmas or otherwise. Having children is a lifestyle choice and I think it's unreasonable to expect other people to be affected by those choices. People who wanted children but for whatever reason never had them are just getting their noses rubbed in it.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    Well what if you have children and the children want to see Mummy and Daddy or Mummy and mummy or even Daddy and Daddy or maybe Gender neutral parent and gender neutral parent on Christmas,but they cant as the single person who has no kids doesn't want to work on Christmas day,id say that single person is being pretty selfish.

    I've got kids and whilst working in security quite a few years people have offered to work despite having christmas off,as they know i've got children and its greatly appreciated.

    Before my boys came along id happily roster myself to cover christmas to allow family men to be with there loved ones,this year i've rostered myself to work so others dont have to as my boys are now old enough to understand why i'm at work and not with them.

    And how is not having children having your nose rubbed in it...are boys are thanks to IVF and took years for it to work,so dont agree with that nonsense at all.
    If my appalling spelling offends you that much...dont read my posts.
    • 74jax
    • By 74jax 29th Nov 17, 1:43 PM
    • 4,536 Posts
    • 6,116 Thanks
    74jax
    Well what if you have children and the children want to see Mummy and Daddy or Mummy and mummy or even Daddy and Daddy or maybe Gender neutral parent and gender neutral parent on Christmas,but they cant as the single person who has no kids doesn't want to work on Christmas day,id say that single person is being pretty selfish.



    I don't see it as selfish at all (and I have a DD). If a person would like Christmas off and doesn't have children then it's not really any of my business as to why; they might want to spend it with their family, friends etc, just because they don't spend it with their child (as they don't have one, doesn't make them selfish for wanting to spend it with others) - my favorite Christmas was spent in hospital with Dad as it was his last Christmas and I'm lucky I got that. I think a parent expecting to be able to have time off because they have a child is selfish. Everyone is mostly in the same boat, they want Christmas off. Hell, you could want it off to sit and eat turkey and watch films all day, it's still a reason.

    I've got kids and whilst working in security quite a few years people have offered to work despite having christmas off,as they know i've got children and its greatly appreciated.



    I have worked over Christmas too so that someone could go visit friends (again I have a DD), so it works both ways. People with kids can offer to help out those without too.

    Before my boys came along id happily roster myself to cover christmas to allow family men to be with there loved ones,this year i've rostered myself to work so others dont have to as my boys are now old enough to understand why i'm at work and not with them.

    And how is not having children having your nose rubbed in it...are boys are thanks to IVF and took years for it to work,so dont agree with that nonsense at all.
    Originally posted by Samsung_Note2


    I think everyone should be treated equally, regardless if you want to spend the time with children, family, the dog or yourself.
    Forty and fabulous, well that's what my cards say....
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 29th Nov 17, 1:46 PM
    • 5,666 Posts
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    Takeaway_Addict
    Well what if you have children and the children want to see Mummy and Daddy or Mummy and mummy or even Daddy and Daddy or maybe Gender neutral parent and gender neutral parent on Christmas,but they cant as the single person who has no kids doesn't want to work on Christmas day,id say that single person is being pretty selfish.

    I've got kids and whilst working in security quite a few years people have offered to work despite having christmas off,as they know i've got children and its greatly appreciated.

    Before my boys came along id happily roster myself to cover christmas to allow family men to be with there loved ones,this year i've rostered myself to work so others dont have to as my boys are now old enough to understand why i'm at work and not with them.

    And how is not having children having your nose rubbed in it...are boys are thanks to IVF and took years for it to work,so dont agree with that nonsense at all.
    Originally posted by Samsung_Note2
    tough sh11t is what I would say.
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • Pricivius
    • By Pricivius 29th Nov 17, 1:48 PM
    • 589 Posts
    • 980 Thanks
    Pricivius
    Sorry to OP for continuing slightly off topic, but a blanket rule that people with children get Christmas off is inappropriate, in my view. If people without kids choose to let those with kids have Christmas off, then that's fine, but forcing those without kids to work shows a lack of appreciation for various life circumstances.


    For example, a few years ago, as a single person without children, I was asked to work at Christmas because of colleagues with kids. It was my mum's first Christmas as a widow and she was due to spend it on her own. Just because I didn't have children did not mean that I wasn't needed somewhere to make someone's day a little less lonely - in my view, possibly more important than being with children who already had other family around them. Another example,last year, my sister visited from overseas with her children for the first time in 8 years. My mum wanted her three children and her three grandchildren in the same place for the first time ever at Christmas. To achieve this, I travelled the length of the country 6 times in 8 days to get back to work in between being with my family, because of "the children at christmas rule".
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 29th Nov 17, 1:48 PM
    • 15,814 Posts
    • 9,097 Thanks
    motorguy

    Well what if you have children and the children want to see Mummy and Daddy or Mummy and mummy or even Daddy and Daddy or maybe Gender neutral parent and gender neutral parent on Christmas,but they cant as the single person who has no kids doesn't want to work on Christmas day,id say that single person is being pretty selfish.
    Originally posted by Samsung_Note2
    If parents cant do their fair share of working at holidays and set times, then they should find other roles that suit their particular requirements better? Why should someone with no children - whos still entitled to spend time with loved ones, family, friends, etc feel obliged to work in their place?


    I've got kids and whilst working in security quite a few years people have offered to work despite having christmas off,as they know i've got children and its greatly appreciated.

    Before my boys came along id happily roster myself to cover christmas to allow family men to be with there loved ones,this year i've rostered myself to work so others dont have to as my boys are now old enough to understand why i'm at work and not with them.
    Originally posted by Samsung_Note2
    If people want to offer then fine, however not offering doesnt make them selfish.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 29th Nov 17, 1:53 PM
    • 15,814 Posts
    • 9,097 Thanks
    motorguy

    Sorry to OP for continuing slightly off topic, but a blanket rule that people with children get Christmas off is inappropriate, in my view. If people without kids choose to let those with kids have Christmas off, then that's fine, but forcing those without kids to work shows a lack of appreciation for various life circumstances.
    Originally posted by Pricivius
    +1

    Wholly my view.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • bouicca21
    • By bouicca21 29th Nov 17, 2:15 PM
    • 3,288 Posts
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    bouicca21
    I did say he was self seeking. I'm willing to bet that had he stayed in post longer, the rule would have changed to include primary school age. But the alternate xmases was a good idea and worked.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 29th Nov 17, 2:16 PM
    • 15,814 Posts
    • 9,097 Thanks
    motorguy
    Given how many years this has been an issue for the O/P and his colleagues, you'd think between them they'd maybe sort it out among themselves?
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • clairec79
    • By clairec79 29th Nov 17, 10:03 PM
    • 2,292 Posts
    • 6,189 Thanks
    clairec79
    TBH I find (at least where I work and have worked) that most people accept they need to work their share over xmas and it all works out alright.
    I have younger children and don't like to work the early shift (I like to be there when they open their presents) - but will work the afternoon or night shift (am this year)
    Those with grown up or no children seem to prefer the earlier shifts so they can have xmas afternoon/evening with their family and friends

    Also if you work xmas you get new year off (so always work one but you alternate) - this year they said no requests over what to work and I think it resulted in less arguing
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 30th Nov 17, 8:31 AM
    • 30,408 Posts
    • 19,222 Thanks
    DCFC79
    Not an issue where I work, in fact its not been an issue where ever I have worked, for example in the past who ever worked boxing day would get new years day off, we would take it in turns to work new years day.

    OP its easy to sort out, you each just need to do your part to make sure the xmas period is covered.
    Can people stop loaning money/being a guarator to family/friends, it rarely ends well and you lose out as your money is gone or you get shafted with being a guarantor.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 30th Nov 17, 9:59 AM
    • 1,098 Posts
    • 1,217 Thanks
    NeilCr
    Sorry to OP for continuing slightly off topic, but a blanket rule that people with children get Christmas off is inappropriate, in my view. If people without kids choose to let those with kids have Christmas off, then that's fine, but forcing those without kids to work shows a lack of appreciation for various life circumstances.


    For example, a few years ago, as a single person without children, I was asked to work at Christmas because of colleagues with kids. It was my mum's first Christmas as a widow and she was due to spend it on her own. Just because I didn't have children did not mean that I wasn't needed somewhere to make someone's day a little less lonely - in my view, possibly more important than being with children who already had other family around them. Another example,last year, my sister visited from overseas with her children for the first time in 8 years. My mum wanted her three children and her three grandchildren in the same place for the first time ever at Christmas. To achieve this, I travelled the length of the country 6 times in 8 days to get back to work in between being with my family, because of "the children at christmas rule".
    Originally posted by Pricivius
    Quite agree.

    To be honest, when I was working, I was happy to come in over Xmas (especially the bit between Xmas and New Year which can be a real drag), I live on my own, have no family and Xmas is not my favourite part of the year.

    There were a few like me so it made easier for those who wanted Xmas off (for whatever reason) to be able to do so. It was quite good, actually. The trains and the office were quiet and we’d decant to the pub at a respectable time. And I had some leave I could take when I wanted to later in the year.

    But, yes, as Teillit says, I did get peed off with those who thought having children meant they should have first dibs at annual leave.
    • takman
    • By takman 30th Nov 17, 10:40 AM
    • 2,890 Posts
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    takman
    Well what if you have children and the children want to see Mummy and Daddy or Mummy and mummy or even Daddy and Daddy or maybe Gender neutral parent and gender neutral parent on Christmas,but they cant as the single person who has no kids doesn't want to work on Christmas day,id say that single person is being pretty selfish.
    Originally posted by Samsung_Note2
    Like others i completely disagree with what you are saying here. For some people Christmas is the only period when their entire family get together. So i would say it's more important for a single person with no children to spend Christmas day with their family they only see once a year compared to someone who sees their kids everyday. Ironically it's selfish to assume that seeing your children on one specific day of the year is more important than someone who only sees their family once a year.

    If not working over Christmas is so important then you should get a job where you won't need to. In my industry there is no need to every work on Christmas Day or New Years Day and it's very unlikely they would allow people to come in between, although it does happen if people ask to and can justify it.
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