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  • FIRST POST
    • 21LoveLondon
    • By 21LoveLondon 27th Nov 17, 2:17 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 3Thanks
    21LoveLondon
    Agency charging me fees i was not told about!
    • #1
    • 27th Nov 17, 2:17 PM
    Agency charging me fees i was not told about! 27th Nov 17 at 2:17 PM
    Please help, I need your advice!

    I had two job interviews with different agencies offering similar pay. I went for the job that was closer to home.

    I am PAYE and on an hourly rate, weekly paid.

    I received my payslip and found that the agency have taken company deductions from my wage, such as HMRC Payment NIERS, Apprenticeship Levy, Management Company Margin and the standard NI and tax.
    I wasn't informed of the additional charges when I accepted the role so it works out that I'm on a lot less money.

    I spoke to my agent and they said that there's nothing they can do about it, I have to accept these charges.

    They use a payroll company to sort out the wages.

    They have offered to get the payroll company to register me as self employed as I will then have more take-home pay. I don't think this is right! I am sure that I should only be paying the tax and the National Insurance and nothing else. Surely they should be honouring the hourly rate offered to me?

    I have lost out to the other job that was a very definite rate without any hidden fees. I feel like I have been cheated. I'm so upset. I no longer trust or want to be represented by this agency.

    I am really enjoying the place of work and want to stay with them.

    Can anyone offer me legit advice on my rights, what can be done?

    Many thanks Jane
Page 1
    • Gazzafatcityboy
    • By Gazzafatcityboy 27th Nov 17, 2:43 PM
    • 91 Posts
    • 81 Thanks
    Gazzafatcityboy
    • #2
    • 27th Nov 17, 2:43 PM
    • #2
    • 27th Nov 17, 2:43 PM
    Hi there,


    Surely it has to be in your contract? I would check it with a fine tooth comb first to see where these charges come in. If you register as self employed it will be more hassle and dependent on how much you earn it might not be worth it. I setup my own limited company before which was really good but only if you earn enough.


    G
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 27th Nov 17, 2:46 PM
    • 1,470 Posts
    • 7,445 Thanks
    NBLondon
    • #3
    • 27th Nov 17, 2:46 PM
    • #3
    • 27th Nov 17, 2:46 PM
    When you say agency - do you mean a recruitment agency who placed you in a job or a temping agency which is your legal employer and then sells you on to the actual workplace? I suspect it's the latter. It may be in the small print of when you signed up with the agency that the headline rate of pay on the job advert is not necessarily the takehome but they are looking a bit dodgy about it.
    Apprenticeship Levy
    That looks iffy for a start! The employer pays that not the employee! Plus it's only payable if the total payroll is over £3M so unless the agency is a big name national operator - they won't be paying it.

    How long have you been at the workplace employer? If you like them and they like you - find out quietly whether they might want to take you on directly. It will usually cost them a fee to the agency but it might be a long-term better deal for both sides.
    This Be the Verse - Philip Larkin. The first line that everyone knows.
    • ceh209
    • By ceh209 27th Nov 17, 3:28 PM
    • 705 Posts
    • 472 Thanks
    ceh209
    • #4
    • 27th Nov 17, 3:28 PM
    • #4
    • 27th Nov 17, 3:28 PM
    I'm just wondering - have they put you in an umbrella company?
    Excuse any mis-spelt replies, there's probably a cat sat on the keyboard
    • 21LoveLondon
    • By 21LoveLondon 27th Nov 17, 4:23 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    21LoveLondon
    • #5
    • 27th Nov 17, 4:23 PM
    • #5
    • 27th Nov 17, 4:23 PM
    Thank you G
    It was a registration form that i filled out and signed. The Agency is Madigan Gill which does deal mainly with self employed people, but in my case the agent said i was employed.
    I'm in an admin role so definitely don't earn enough money to consider being self employed.



    Hi there,


    Surely it has to be in your contract? I would check it with a fine tooth comb first to see where these charges come in. If you register as self employed it will be more hassle and dependent on how much you earn it might not be worth it. I setup my own limited company before which was really good but only if you earn enough.


    G
    Originally posted by Gazzafatcityboy
    • 21LoveLondon
    • By 21LoveLondon 27th Nov 17, 4:36 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    21LoveLondon
    • #6
    • 27th Nov 17, 4:36 PM
    • #6
    • 27th Nov 17, 4:36 PM
    Thankyou NBLondon
    I put my CV on CV Library and the recruitment agency Madigan Gill contacted me with the role. I've only been working there 2 weeks.
    Everything was discussed over the phone and in email but it was only a registration form I completed and the payroll contractor form with my bank details.
    The terms and conditions were relating to contractors / sub contractors. But because I'm classed as PAYE I assumed I was employed by the agency.
    I'm in a admin role and don't think I earn enough money to benefit from registering as self employed...
    • 21LoveLondon
    • By 21LoveLondon 27th Nov 17, 4:43 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    21LoveLondon
    • #7
    • 27th Nov 17, 4:43 PM
    • #7
    • 27th Nov 17, 4:43 PM
    I'm just wondering - have they put you in an umbrella company?
    Originally posted by ceh209
    Thankyou ceh209,
    I'm sure they haven't put me under an umbrella company. I think the agency is a relatively small (Madigan Gill) they don't even have a payroll department.
    • Samsung_Note2
    • By Samsung_Note2 27th Nov 17, 5:02 PM
    • 207 Posts
    • 79 Thanks
    Samsung_Note2
    • #8
    • 27th Nov 17, 5:02 PM
    • #8
    • 27th Nov 17, 5:02 PM
    Thankyou ceh209,
    I'm sure they haven't put me under an umbrella company. I think the agency is a relatively small (Madigan Gill) they don't even have a payroll department.
    Originally posted by 21LoveLondon
    It sounds like they have..easy to check,what company name is on your payslip.

    If Madigan Gill is a small firm then yes chances are they will use an umbrella company esp as you say they normally deal with self employed people.
    • 21LoveLondon
    • By 21LoveLondon 27th Nov 17, 5:11 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    21LoveLondon
    • #9
    • 27th Nov 17, 5:11 PM
    • #9
    • 27th Nov 17, 5:11 PM
    I'm looking at my payslip, and you're right, its PAYE Umbrella Glenlee Ltd, but the company Madigan Gill are still classed as the company name... confusing!
    • Samsung_Note2
    • By Samsung_Note2 28th Nov 17, 8:28 AM
    • 207 Posts
    • 79 Thanks
    Samsung_Note2
    I'm looking at my payslip, and you're right, its PAYE Umbrella Glenlee Ltd, but the company Madigan Gill are still classed as the company name... confusing!
    Originally posted by 21LoveLondon
    If your PAYE then as i understand it you should pay your Tax (if applicable) and NI,then pension if enrolled as a base.

    If UTR then they deduct your pay your tax and NI along with employers NI..and then either a % of wages (thats how last payroll company had us paying there fee) or a fixed amount each pay.

    Could even make you a principal of a LTD company and not mention it to you..had that last year and despite asking was fobbed off,until after the Tax law changed and found out i was one of nearly 7000 principals.

    Some agencies will own or have close ties to Umbrella companies,that way they get your money twice over,not sure if its been changed now but was common in the construction industry agencies would have a sister company or insist on using only a choice of who they tell you to use.
    Last edited by Samsung_Note2; 28-11-2017 at 8:31 AM.
    • 21LoveLondon
    • By 21LoveLondon 29th Nov 17, 12:01 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    21LoveLondon
    Thank you everyone,
    I've decided to go to Citizens Advice Bureau and see if they can help me, it's just too confusing!
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 29th Nov 17, 12:41 PM
    • 15,825 Posts
    • 9,121 Thanks
    motorguy
    Thankyou NBLondon
    I put my CV on CV Library and the recruitment agency Madigan Gill contacted me with the role. I've only been working there 2 weeks.
    Everything was discussed over the phone and in email but it was only a registration form I completed and the payroll contractor form with my bank details.
    The terms and conditions were relating to contractors / sub contractors. But because I'm classed as PAYE I assumed I was employed by the agency.
    I'm in a admin role and don't think I earn enough money to benefit from registering as self employed...
    Originally posted by 21LoveLondon
    And therein lies the problem.

    They're getting a day rate for you from the employer - which i guess is the headline figure you were quoted - and from that they are correctly deducting taxes.

    As the employer is simply paying a day rate, the Employers NI, etc, will come out of that.

    You are correct - you are an employee (most likely through the agencies umbrella company) - however the correct taxes still need to be paid
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 29th Nov 17, 12:44 PM
    • 15,825 Posts
    • 9,121 Thanks
    motorguy
    Thank you everyone,
    I've decided to go to Citizens Advice Bureau and see if they can help me, it's just too confusing!
    Originally posted by 21LoveLondon
    Its not confusing.

    The employer is paying a day rate for you, and the agency deduct all due taxes out of that and pay you the difference.

    As Employers NI, Apprenticeship levy, etc have to be paid, its coming out of that day rate.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • Samsung_Note2
    • By Samsung_Note2 29th Nov 17, 1:13 PM
    • 207 Posts
    • 79 Thanks
    Samsung_Note2
    And therein lies the problem.

    They're getting a day rate for you from the employer - which i guess is the headline figure you were quoted - and from that they are correctly deducting taxes.

    As the employer is simply paying a day rate, the Employers NI, etc, will come out of that.

    You are correct - you are an employee (most likely through the agencies umbrella company) - however the correct taxes still need to be paid
    Originally posted by motorguy
    If thats the case the Agency need to tell the employee...they cant say your pay is £10 an hour and you will work 8hrs a day.

    If the employee is liable for employers NI that needs to be made clear along with Umbrella company fee etc.

    Even then you should be able to claim it back..we did when we were paid via umbrella company.
    If my appalling spelling offends you that much...dont read my posts.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 29th Nov 17, 1:16 PM
    • 15,825 Posts
    • 9,121 Thanks
    motorguy
    If thats the case the Agency need to tell the employee...they cant say your pay is £10 an hour and you will work 8hrs a day.

    If the employee is liable for employers NI that needs to be made clear along with Umbrella company fee etc.

    Even then you should be able to claim it back..we did when we were paid via umbrella company.
    Originally posted by Samsung_Note2
    By the sounds of it, they already did, however the O/P assumed it didnt apply to them.

    I'd be very surprised if you could legally claim back employers NI as a matter of course. There may have been specific circumstances, but its not the default.
    Last edited by motorguy; 29-11-2017 at 1:51 PM.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 29th Nov 17, 3:32 PM
    • 1,470 Posts
    • 7,445 Thanks
    NBLondon
    Its not confusing.

    The employer is paying a day rate for you, and the agency deduct all due taxes out of that and pay you the difference.

    As Employers NI, Apprenticeship levy, etc have to be paid, its coming out of that day rate.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Hang on. The Apprenticeship Levy is a levy on the employer (whether that's the workplace employer or the umbrella company or agency or all three) not on the employee. So it shouldn't be appearing on the payslip or coming off the OP's gross. Definitely sounds like the agency is not being clear to the OP!
    This Be the Verse - Philip Larkin. The first line that everyone knows.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 29th Nov 17, 4:02 PM
    • 15,825 Posts
    • 9,121 Thanks
    motorguy
    Hang on. The Apprenticeship Levy is a levy on the employer (whether that's the workplace employer or the umbrella company or agency or all three) not on the employee. So it shouldn't be appearing on the payslip or coming off the OP's gross. Definitely sounds like the agency is not being clear to the OP!
    Originally posted by NBLondon
    Yes, however it will come out of the day rate that the O/P has agreed with the agency / client.

    As the O/P is taking a PAYE wage then all the deductions will come out of that gross amount. That means Employers NI, Apprenticeship levy, Income Tax, Employees NI, etc. Also, allowance for holidays come out of that too.

    The O/P has confused the day rate agreed with the client as being their gross pay. Its not.

    The client has agreed to pay a day rate for the O/P - to include any deductions.

    Its not that the O/P hasnt been told. Its that they have assumed / not taken in the implications.

    Its a standard contract arrangement. I work within that regime myself currently as an IT Contractor in an inside IR35 role.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • Samsung_Note2
    • By Samsung_Note2 29th Nov 17, 4:19 PM
    • 207 Posts
    • 79 Thanks
    Samsung_Note2
    Yes, however it will come out of the day rate that the O/P has agreed with the agency / client.

    As the O/P is taking a PAYE wage then all the deductions will come out of that gross amount. That means Employers NI, Apprenticeship levy, Income Tax, Employees NI, etc. Also, allowance for holidays come out of that too.

    The O/P has confused the day rate agreed with the client as being their gross pay. Its not.

    The client has agreed to pay a day rate for the O/P - to include any deductions.

    Its not that the O/P hasnt been told. Its that they have assumed / not taken in the implications.

    Its a standard contract arrangement. I work within that regime myself currently as an IT Contractor in an inside IR35 role.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Glad its clear to you..clear as mud to me..

    But then i've never worked under such a system,and sounds like neither has OP.

    I've only worked for an agency and been paid via agency with tax and NI being taken..or as self employed and claimed anything they deducted back on self assessment via my accountant.

    To be fair some agencies/umbrella"s just talk utter nonsense as did the firm that lied through there teeth when they set 7000+ of us up as principals...then when tax laws changed April 2016 they admitted that they had indeed lied and couldn't discuss it as its a new tax year...honestly couldn't make it up.
    If my appalling spelling offends you that much...dont read my posts.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 29th Nov 17, 9:08 PM
    • 15,825 Posts
    • 9,121 Thanks
    motorguy
    Glad its clear to you..clear as mud to me..

    But then i've never worked under such a system,and sounds like neither has OP.

    I've only worked for an agency and been paid via agency with tax and NI being taken..or as self employed and claimed anything they deducted back on self assessment via my accountant.
    Originally posted by Samsung_Note2
    Agreed. However that doesnt mean the O/P wasnt told - its just that they didnt understand what they were told. There is a difference.

    Also, theres a difference between being an agency worker and a contractor. An agency worker will work through an agency and go wherever they are needed to work OR sometimes just to a specific role at a specific location. A contractor gets paid a day rate and pays any due taxes from this.

    From the O/Ps perspective, they thought they were signing up as an agency worker, however they were signing up as a contractor. They have already told us this - "I completed and the payroll contractor form with my bank details. The terms and conditions were relating to contractors / sub contractors. But because I'm classed as PAYE I assumed I was employed by the agency. "

    So its not that they werent told - they just didnt understand what they were signing up to.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • leslieknope
    • By leslieknope 30th Nov 17, 12:40 AM
    • 314 Posts
    • 468 Thanks
    leslieknope
    err no employee should be paying for the apprenticeship levy at all. it's a levy for the company, which they can reinvest into their company through training or relinquish to the central apprenticeship fund.

    if you're being charged for this levy you're either the owner of a £3million company or you're being !!!!!!
    CCCC #33: £42/£240
    DFW: £4355/£4405
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