Brittania Parking PCN

met6173 · 28 November 2017 at 7:09PM

thanks have edited #9 but unable to change content of #11

met6173 · 1 December 2017 at 6:47PM

Hi all,

I've been in contact with the college who have forwarded it on to Britannia. In their response they say they have said this:-

[FONT=&quot]I have looked at this PCN and there has been no delay, we have up to 35 days to notify the keeper, if the PCN is not issued under the Protections of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]Time frame if POFA is quoted in the text on the PCN – 14 days[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]Time frame if POFA is NOT quoted in the text on the PCN – 35 days[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Unfortunately the POFA Legislation is quite complex and can be very confusing if you do not work with the private car parking industry, to understand the requirements to be able to issue a PCN within the 14 days.

Any ideas please? Where does it show how it was issued ie POFA or not?

[/FONT]

Umkomaas · 1 December 2017 at 7:09PM

Unfortunately the POFA Legislation is quite complex and can be very confusing

It’s obviously confusing Britannia too!

....... we have up to 35 days to notify the keeper, if the PCN is not issued under the Protections of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA).

Eh? :rotfl:

Here’s how you check whether the NtK is PoFA-compliant.

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

Have you sent your appeal to Britannia yet (from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 - blue text version)?

met6173 · 1 December 2017 at 7:29PM

I 've given these a quick look. There was no notice to driver issued at the time, only the NTK that came through the post. All the information appears to be on the letter that is required so why do they say it isnt issued under POFA? Are they just trying to put me off and pay up? Why wouldnt POFA apply?

Redx · 1 December 2017 at 7:36PM

its all rubbish

if ANPR is used then they had 14 days to serve the notice to the keeper, by post

the 35 days relates to the timeframe in the BPA CoP that is allowed for a PPC like BRIT to reply to any appeal made

in my opinion, even after 5 years BRIT have no idea how POFA2012 operates , so I am not surprised they have failed to address any issues

if we assume they are not following POFA2012, or have failed it , OR BOTH , then they can only pursue the driver (if known)

a KEEPER can always hide behind POFA2012 if BRIT have failed to adhere to it , its the law and the keeper can use the law to their own advantage if a PPC fails that same law

this is why we tell people to appeal as KEEPER and not to admit to who was driving on the day

the "normal" course of events for a POFA2012 compliant NTK is

issued and posted within say 12 days
compliant with POFA2012 wordings
arrives with the keeper by day 15

if its late , or fails the wording tests , then it is not compliant
if it doesnt specify the POFA2012 wordings , it is not compliant

whoever sent you that letter hasnt a clue about POFA2012 and many companies find it too complicated, AND SO DO NOT FOLLOW POFA2012

they seem to think they can hound a keeper even when they cannot hold a keeper reesponsible for the charge

Umkomaas · 1 December 2017 at 7:39PM

I 've given these a quick look.

‘Quick look’ is hardly going to do it! The NtK needs to be examined thoroughly and pedantically against each of the requirements it needs to meet in order for the PPC to invoke Keeper Liability.

Let’s cut to the chase (but I won’t do this again)!

1. Date of parking contravention?
2. Date the NtK was issued?
3. Date of receipt of NtK?

met6173 · 1 December 2017 at 8:55PM

thanks guys

A NTK was recieved on 27/11/17. The contravention was dated 8/11/17 and the notice was issued on the 23/11/17.

Included in the letter are the registration of the vehicle, pictures of the vehicle entering and exiting the car park and the time it entered and exited. It invites the keeper to pay up or inform who the driver is.Britannia identify themselves as the 'creditor', and offer to discount the £100 charge to £60 if paid within 14 days of issue and that after 29 days the full amount is due.

So far as the following parts are worded i'm unclear

Advise that the driver is liable for the parking charge and the amount and that it has not been paid in full.

Specify the outstanding amount of the parking charge and of the maximum additional costs they may seek to recover, and of the dispute resolution arrangements

Warn the keeper that if the parking charges remains outstanding after 28 days and the name and address of the driver has not been given, or otherwise known to the person entitled to the parking charge, that “creditor” will be entitled to recover the parking charge from the registered keeper.

The letter states

The signage displayed at the entranceto and through the car park states that the car park is private land operated by Britannia Parking ( the creditor). Parking conditions apply or a Parking Charge will be incurred, along with other terms and conditions of the car park by which those who park agree to be bound.

By contravening the terms and conditions set out on the signage the Parking Charge is now payable.

I assume that the above covers this? if so then the NTK is POFA and Britannia are trying to pull a fast one?

Umkomaas · 1 December 2017 at 10:12PM

A NTK was recieved on 27/11/17. The contravention was dated 8/11/17 and the notice was issued on the 23/11/17.

There’s your get out of jail card. No Keeper Liability.

With an ANPR camera capture, the PPC must send, and the keeper receive, the NtK within 14 days after the day following the day on which the parking event took place. The NtK needed to be with the keeper by 22/11/17.

As it is dated 23/11/17 there can be no possibility that the NtK arrived in time, therefore, No Keeper Liability. But that will come later in your POPLA appeal.

But you first need to get a POPLA Code, so you need to submit your initial appeal (blue text template from post #1 of the sticky) to Britannia by the method prescribed in their NtK and within 28 days of the date on the NtK. Follow their instructions on how to submit precisely, but do not identify the driver. This is my standard advice in terms of submitting the initial appeal.

Make sure that is sent to the PPC by their deadline date, normally 28 days from the date on the NtK, otherwise you can kiss goodbye to POPLA.

Also, equally important in the submission of the initial appeal, you follow precisely the method by which they require you to send the appeal. If it says by email, don’t send it by post (or vice versa). If it asks for the keeper’s name and full postal address - give it, don’t provide an email address instead, or try to be clever with a M Mouse, Orlando, Florida!

Be careful of any drop down box if the appeal is via a website appeals portal, that defaults to ‘I am/was the driver’ - make sure that isn’t shown when you press the ‘Send’ button.

met6173 · 3 December 2017 at 10:06AM

Thank you all. Appeal issued now to wait for code

met6173 · 3 December 2017 at 10:15AM

If as I expect Britannia respond to say this wasnt issued under POFA 2012 I still have grounds to appeal due to the time line, yes?

Brittania Parking PCN

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