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  • FIRST POST
    • LouHetherington
    • By LouHetherington 27th Nov 17, 9:38 AM
    • 9Posts
    • 3Thanks
    LouHetherington
    Britannia PCN
    • #1
    • 27th Nov 17, 9:38 AM
    Britannia PCN 27th Nov 17 at 9:38 AM
    Hi,

    I am in need of some advice relating to a PCN from Britannia Parking please!

    The driver of the vehicle went to Milton Keynes two weeks ago and on entry to the car park noticed it was an ANPR car park, they believed it was pay on "Pay on Exit" as it was an ANPR system and this belief was then backed up with the fact that there were no pay machines on the floor the car had been parked on the only ones they saw were at the pedestrian exit/entrance to the car park (strange to come all the way down from Level 5 just to get a ticket and go all the way back up). They came back to the car park 2 hours later, enteredthey registration into the machine and it charged £0.60. I have now received NTK to pay a fine of £100.00, as this is slightly different to most of the other cases on here where people have overstayed etc. can anyone help with my response to Britannia before appealing it to POPLA.

    Oops forgot to mention dates, this happened on the 11th of November, however, I received the letter today (27th of November) however it is dated the 23rd of November, technically I received it after the 14 days!

    Many thanks.
    Last edited by LouHetherington; 27-11-2017 at 10:07 AM.
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 27th Nov 17, 9:43 AM
    • 16,331 Posts
    • 25,424 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 27th Nov 17, 9:43 AM
    • #2
    • 27th Nov 17, 9:43 AM
    Respond as everyone is advised for a BPA AOS operator - use the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 template initial appeal (the one in blue text). Do not add or change anything. My standard advice for sending the appeal is as follows.

    Make sure that is sent to the PPC by their deadline date, normally 28 days from the date on the NtK, otherwise you can kiss goodbye to POPLA.

    Also, equally important in the submission of the initial appeal, you follow precisely the method by which they require you to send the appeal. If it says by email, don’t send it by post (or vice versa). If it asks for the keeper’s name and full postal address - give it, don’t provide an email address instead, or try to be clever with a M Mouse, Orlando, Florida!

    Be careful of any drop down box if the appeal is via a website appeals portal, that defaults to ‘I am/was the driver’ - make sure that isn’t shown when you press the ‘Send’ button.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 27th Nov 17, 9:52 AM
    • 1,537 Posts
    • 1,688 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #3
    • 27th Nov 17, 9:52 AM
    • #3
    • 27th Nov 17, 9:52 AM
    Edit your post so the driver cannot be be identified
    call them "the driver"
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 27th Nov 17, 10:24 AM
    • 10,264 Posts
    • 9,412 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #4
    • 27th Nov 17, 10:24 AM
    • #4
    • 27th Nov 17, 10:24 AM
    MY has lots of car parks, most free but time limited, others chargeable. Which location was this?
    And which PPC?
    • LouHetherington
    • By LouHetherington 27th Nov 17, 10:25 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    LouHetherington
    • #5
    • 27th Nov 17, 10:25 AM
    • #5
    • 27th Nov 17, 10:25 AM
    I also read this in the legislation:

    "(6) A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales."

    This happened on the 11th of November, however, I received the letter today (27th of November) however it is dated the 23rd of November, based on the above I received this outside of the 14 day period?
    • LouHetherington
    • By LouHetherington 27th Nov 17, 10:28 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    LouHetherington
    • #6
    • 27th Nov 17, 10:28 AM
    • #6
    • 27th Nov 17, 10:28 AM
    Hi Guys Dad,

    It was at the Avebury MSCP near the center, the NTK is from Britannia Parking.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 27th Nov 17, 10:38 AM
    • 16,331 Posts
    • 25,424 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #7
    • 27th Nov 17, 10:38 AM
    • #7
    • 27th Nov 17, 10:38 AM
    This happened on the 11th of November, however, I received the letter today (27th of November) however it is dated the 23rd of November, based on the above I received this outside of the 14 day period?
    14 days start from the day after the parking event. So it should have been delivered by the 25th. So technically they’ve failed that part of PoFA.

    As they dated it 23rd, they might argue that it was posted that day and is deemed delivered 2 days later. Is the envelope dated? Was it sent by First Class post?

    It’s a bit of a tight one - so I wouldn’t be overly reliant on that one point alone in arguing No Keeper Liability. Are there other flaws in the NtK?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • LouHetherington
    • By LouHetherington 27th Nov 17, 11:08 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    LouHetherington
    • #8
    • 27th Nov 17, 11:08 AM
    • #8
    • 27th Nov 17, 11:08 AM
    The 23rd was a Thursday, therefor, the earliest it could have been posted is the 23rd and the earliest it could have arrived based on Section 4's presumption is today, the 27th which falls outside the 14 days, would you agree?
    • LouHetherington
    • By LouHetherington 27th Nov 17, 11:14 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    LouHetherington
    • #9
    • 27th Nov 17, 11:14 AM
    • #9
    • 27th Nov 17, 11:14 AM
    I also noticed that the NTK mentions the following:

    "If you were not the driver of the vehicle at the time, you should tell us the name and the current postal address of the driver and pass this notice to them for payment."

    However it does not mention the Protection of Act Freedoms 2012, is this something that can be used it the appeal?
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 27th Nov 17, 11:20 AM
    • 10,264 Posts
    • 9,412 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    The 23rd was a Thursday, therefor, the earliest it could have been posted is the 23rd and the earliest it could have arrived based on Section 4's presumption is today, the 27th which falls outside the 14 days, would you agree?
    Originally posted by LouHetherington
    Yes. I agree.

    This is your significant appeal point and make sure your spell it out.
    • LouHetherington
    • By LouHetherington 27th Nov 17, 11:36 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    LouHetherington
    Many thanks!

    Should I put this in my appeal to Britannia or just use the template as mentioned above and then use this point in the appeal to POPLA?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 27th Nov 17, 12:37 PM
    • 16,331 Posts
    • 25,424 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Many thanks!

    Should I put this in my appeal to Britannia or just use the template as mentioned above and then use this point in the appeal to POPLA?
    Originally posted by LouHetherington
    Britannia either won’t understand it or just ignore it. It’s unlikely to stop them in their tracks and cancel the ticket.

    Keep it ‘dry’ for POPLA, but as the dates are ‘close to the wire’ and sometimes POPLA assessors fail to spot some of the subtle nuances (maybe through skim reading) you will likely have to spell out the point very cogently.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • LouHetherington
    • By LouHetherington 2nd Jan 18, 9:43 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    LouHetherington
    I went through Britannia's appeal procedure on their website on the 27th of November 2017, I have an email confirmation that they acknowledged my appeal, however, I am yet to have a reply back from them. Is there a deadline for them to reply on this?

    Many thanks
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 2nd Jan 18, 9:52 AM
    • 40,713 Posts
    • 81,301 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    I went through Britannia's appeal procedure on their website on the 27th of November 2017, I have an email confirmation that they acknowledged my appeal, however, I am yet to have a reply back from them. Is there a deadline for them to reply on this?

    Many thanks
    Originally posted by LouHetherington
    They "should" reply within 35 days. Apparently there have been a couple of holidays recently so this may have slowed things down. Have you checked your junk/spam box just in case it landed in there?
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • LouHetherington
    • By LouHetherington 2nd Jan 18, 9:58 AM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    LouHetherington
    Yeah I've been checking both my inbox and junk folders, nothing yet!
    • LouHetherington
    • By LouHetherington 3rd Jan 18, 4:28 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    LouHetherington
    Just got an emailing confirming that they cancelled the PCN, I did not even mention receiving the notice late, I used the standard appeals letter as advised above.

    Thank you for your help!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Jan 18, 9:42 PM
    • 52,853 Posts
    • 66,370 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Easy wasn't it?!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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