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  • FIRST POST
    • JustAnotherSaver
    • By JustAnotherSaver 26th Nov 17, 11:21 AM
    • 2,612Posts
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    JustAnotherSaver
    Who's in the wrong (overtaking - video inside)?
    • #1
    • 26th Nov 17, 11:21 AM
    Who's in the wrong (overtaking - video inside)? 26th Nov 17 at 11:21 AM
    I've often wondered in this case. It's something you see happening regular, or at least i do around here & i've always wondered if there ends up a bump who would be deemed to be at fault.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrcQnFsVVgU

    It doesn't necessarily have to be this specific case but let's say inside car is A & overtaking car is B.

    If B overtakes and clips A then B is wrong, right?

    But if B overtakes and then A decides to not let B in by going from plodding along to accelerating hard to close the gap, is B still wrong? Can it wind up 50/50? A in the wrong?

    Like in the video where they're driving along, it can come to a point where the person on the inside (A) is so determined to not let someone in that they are the ones who actually end up driving into / clipping the ones overtaking.

    I know in the clip above it could've been avoided either 1) If the person hadn't overtook or 2) if the other person had just let them in, but then wouldn't life be so nice if everyone was so laid back all the time

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    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 06-12-2017 at 9:34 AM.

Page 2
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 27th Nov 17, 7:52 AM
    • 10,803 Posts
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    bigadaj
    Boyle's Law applies to gases, not liquids.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Yes, so is this thread referring to people emitting a lot of hot gas or certain type of fluid, that's not clear currently, could well be both.
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 27th Nov 17, 11:41 AM
    • 5,670 Posts
    • 2,609 Thanks
    LeeUK
    Rule 168

    Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.
    That must be omitted from the HGV version of the Highway Code.

    You know like when they take 5 miles to overtake another lorry on a dual carriageway. This.
    • almillar
    • By almillar 27th Nov 17, 1:17 PM
    • 7,118 Posts
    • 2,862 Thanks
    almillar
    (a) He was filtering - the bikers say there's no law against filtering. Seeing as the law's the same for cars & bikes.....
    That's an obtuse way to look at it. Without having to have it written in law, bikes are able to filter, cars aren't - they're different sizes.

    Can't see the start of the incident, but both drivers' behaviour is disgraceful from the start of the vid. If the Mondeo was trying to overtake, he should have made sure he had a gap to safely move into when he started the manoeuvre - if he failed to do that, he's at fault. If the Pug driver had a gap in front of him and closed it, then he's at fault. It's escalated way beyond that by the time we join in, though.
    • boliston
    • By boliston 27th Nov 17, 2:17 PM
    • 2,452 Posts
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    boliston
    That must be omitted from the HGV version of the Highway Code.

    You know like when they take 5 miles to overtake another lorry on a dual carriageway. This.
    Originally posted by LeeUK
    they probably have set schedules so slowing down on every overtake could impact on that - and having to slow by a maximum of 14mph for a short while is not the end of the world
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 27th Nov 17, 3:12 PM
    • 2,459 Posts
    • 1,596 Thanks
    Car 54
    That must be omitted from the HGV version of the Highway Code.

    You know like when they take 5 miles to overtake another lorry on a dual carriageway. This.
    Originally posted by LeeUK
    Rule 163 must also be omitted:

    "You should ... move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake."
    • boliston
    • By boliston 28th Nov 17, 12:05 AM
    • 2,452 Posts
    • 2,018 Thanks
    boliston
    Rule 163 must also be omitted:

    "You should ... move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake."
    Originally posted by Car 54
    What happens if a car is doing 69mph and you want to overtake as you only have a 1mph margin to work with
    • hareng
    • By hareng 28th Nov 17, 12:51 AM
    • 334 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    hareng
    Rule 163 must also be omitted:

    "You should ... move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake."
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Same applies with the lane hoggers, no reason for it except theyre wanting to turn right 4 mile down the road nothing on the lane should be in.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 28th Nov 17, 7:38 AM
    • 2,459 Posts
    • 1,596 Thanks
    Car 54
    What happens if a car is doing 69mph and you want to overtake as you only have a 1mph margin to work with
    Originally posted by boliston
    In an ideal world, you'd be disqualfied for stupidity.
    • boliston
    • By boliston 28th Nov 17, 8:52 PM
    • 2,452 Posts
    • 2,018 Thanks
    boliston
    In an ideal world, you'd be disqualfied for stupidity.
    Originally posted by Car 54
    What is stupid about an overtake that is perfectly safe?
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 28th Nov 17, 10:30 PM
    • 4,166 Posts
    • 3,668 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    What is stupid about an overtake that is perfectly safe?
    Originally posted by boliston
    In the situation given (wanting to overtake someone doing 69mph) assuming you stay within the speed limit - which was hinted at in the post above:


    You have a 1mph differential to play with, which means you'll pass at 44 cm per second. You're obviously starting from a safe 2 second gap - that's 53 metres at 69mph - and you're not going to pull in to the other car's safety space, so that's another 53 metres.

    Add the length of the other car itself (say, an average 4.5m), plus your own car's length (assme the same) gives a total relative distance of 112 metres. At a relative speed of 44 cm per second, that distance is going to take 4 minutes 12 seconds to complete.

    Now, the speeds mean you're on an NSL dual carriageway or motorway, so being in the middle or outer lane for 4 minutes won't be unsafe in itself, but it will be stupid - and wind up an awful lot of following drivers, which could easily become indirectly unsafe.
    • Samsung_Note2
    • By Samsung_Note2 28th Nov 17, 10:45 PM
    • 207 Posts
    • 78 Thanks
    Samsung_Note2
    Had something similar on a roundabout...left lane you can turn left or go straight ahead,right hand lane right turn...pretty standard stuff.

    Only white van man pulls up in right hand lane (obviously turning right)..im in left hand lane and taking second exit which is straight ahead.

    White van man decides the Highway code doesn't apply to him and goes straight across barging into the exit im taking,thankfully im aware he is there and take action to avoid him,obviously report the bloke as have dash cam and im staggered when the copper asks plain faced "Did you move over and allow him to pass"...seems if i hadn't then id have been guilty of refusing to give way and of then causing an accident.

    Still cant get over that....
    If my appalling spelling offends you that much...dont read my posts.
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 29th Nov 17, 10:40 AM
    • 5,670 Posts
    • 2,609 Thanks
    LeeUK
    they probably have set schedules so slowing down on every overtake could impact on that - and having to slow by a maximum of 14mph for a short while is not the end of the world
    Originally posted by boliston
    If it's not the end of the world then they can slow down a bit to let the other lorry overtake quicker.

    Because no one else's time is important just lorry drivers.
    • JustAnotherSaver
    • By JustAnotherSaver 29th Nov 17, 1:52 PM
    • 2,612 Posts
    • 414 Thanks
    JustAnotherSaver
    Had something similar on a roundabout...left lane you can turn left or go straight ahead,right hand lane right turn...pretty standard stuff.

    Only white van man pulls up in right hand lane (obviously turning right)..im in left hand lane and taking second exit which is straight ahead.

    White van man decides the Highway code doesn't apply to him and goes straight across barging into the exit im taking,thankfully im aware he is there and take action to avoid him,obviously report the bloke as have dash cam and im staggered when the copper asks plain faced "Did you move over and allow him to pass"...seems if i hadn't then id have been guilty of refusing to give way and of then causing an accident.

    Still cant get over that....
    Originally posted by Samsung_Note2
    me neither. There seems to be a let people do as they wish mentality.

    I know that statement will get countered. This is MSE after all

    • Jenhenten
    • By Jenhenten 6th Dec 17, 12:12 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Jenhenten
    I think the problem is that this specific stretch of road does not have clear markings and the two lanes merge into one. Those of us who are sensible drivers would merge in turn but each driver here appears to have an overinflated sense of self in believing that they have right of way. I don’t think it’s a simple case of overtaking as there could just about be two lanes at this point and it’s more a refusal to merge. I dislike driving down salterhebble hill for this very reason as it’s all too common. Maybe the new works on the road will allow more space for safe merging? Or better signage to allow for this? We can but hope.
    • tain
    • By tain 6th Dec 17, 10:24 AM
    • 480 Posts
    • 595 Thanks
    tain
    There are two incidents here, one with the blue car and the black car, then the black car again and the white van.

    I'm gonna make an assumption and say that the incident at the end of the video (white van not allowing black car who went down a right turn only lane just to overtake traffic into the left lane) was also what happened at the start of the video.

    If this is the case, then black car is the only one at fault initially. If they've chosen the wrong lane to go down, they should continue their journey until it is safe to turn around and join the traffic again. Or at the very least, they need to wait for an adequate gap before joining traffic again.

    Everything after this is a product of that initial fault.
    • RHD TJ
    • By RHD TJ 6th Dec 17, 11:47 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RHD TJ
    If you listen to the video at around two minutes when the driver with the camera speaks to the driver of the black car, the driver of the black car states that he was undertaken.

    From that it would seem the initial driver at error is the driver of the blue car. After that the driver of the black car should have just backed off and not let himself get riled by ending up a few yards/couple of seconds back than he would have been if he hadn't been undertaken.

    Having said that, we don't know why the driver of the blue car decided to undertake. Without seeing how it all started this is just a guessing game.

    Who gives a flying **** they're both *****.
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