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  • FIRST POST
    • Robby1988
    • By Robby1988 24th Nov 17, 1:59 PM
    • 20Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Robby1988
    Finance owing on car we bought
    • #1
    • 24th Nov 17, 1:59 PM
    Finance owing on car we bought 24th Nov 17 at 1:59 PM
    I have potentially managed to get myself into a pickle with finance owing on a car i just bought & i am kicking myself.

    Needed to buy a run around fairly quickly & after a bit of looking around found this car I liked at a reputable local dealer for £3k. Signed on the dotted line & cleared off for a bit whilst they got it serviced and thought I had better do a HPI check before handing over cash. I did & it flagged up saying PSA Finance still hold an interest in the vehicle, tried to call PSA direct to double check but offices shut on Saturday afternoon.

    So I go back to the dealer & raise this with them. They tell me that the car has only just come in as a part exchange, showed me the settlement letter they had obtained from the previous owner (£800 odd) & assured me was getting sorted. They basically made it all seem very normal & even wrote me a letter stating that finance would be cleared on receipt of payment. I needed the car that week, my gut instinct was telling me it’s all ok, I trusted them as a reputable dealer and paid for the car and took it (tin hat is on!). Maybe wouldn’t have done this if the settlement was thousands but anyway...

    Fast forward to the end of the week & PSA are still saying they have an interest in this vehicle. My dealer are insistent that they have sent payment & don’t understand, they have phoned the old keeper & he has told them he’s received a letter from PSA saying he’s missed a payment so I guess he could be s bit concerned to credit file wise.

    Still waiting for the V5 document to come through & then I’m tempted to use the address info to pay the old owner a visit to see if we can resolve this. As a last resort i would honestly take the settlement sum on the chin myself as a lesson learnt, if it avoids a potential reposession of a car worth a few thousand over a £800odd debt or any addition of agents fees.

    Until I can attempt contact with the old owner I am a bit in limbo because PSA won’t talk to me about the account because of data protection.

    Any advice guys & assuming the old owner doesn’t bother sorting this out, do I need to worry about repo agents turning up or will they chase me for the debt first as the new keeper?
    Last edited by Robby1988; 24-11-2017 at 2:04 PM.
Page 3
    • Warwick Hunt
    • By Warwick Hunt 29th Nov 17, 10:25 PM
    • 654 Posts
    • 334 Thanks
    Warwick Hunt
    The moral thing to do as a trader is sort this out so both the persons credit rating can be sorted and the good clean title can be given to the buyer. That's the moral and honest thing to do as a trader is put admin things right.


    As the law stands, Its clear, There is no recourse for the OP in this case, he knew there was finance owed, therefore protection is nullified. You really really shouldn't take a car from the forecourt without confirmation that the finance bill is fully paid if this isn't possible due to weekends or bank holidays, then leave the car with the dealership retain full payment (minus your deposit) and arrange collection that is within a reasonable time scale for the dealer to clear the finance and get you the evidence this has been done. I always check HPI I ALWAYS ask for evidence the finance is cleared (and a cheque in the post sent via recorded delivery wont cut it for me) Ive seen repossessed cars from people who trusted a dealer to pay a car on finance off only not to and have it reported stolen recovered by finance co, recovered back to finance holding yard, and not released until someone pays off the bill or a court decides who holds legal title.
    Originally posted by atrixblue.-MFR-.

    No you don't.
    • bobbymotors
    • By bobbymotors 30th Nov 17, 10:49 AM
    • 542 Posts
    • 737 Thanks
    bobbymotors
    The moral thing to do as a trader is sort this out so both the persons credit rating can be sorted and the good clean title can be given to the buyer. That's the moral and honest thing to do as a trader is put admin things right.


    As the law stands, Its clear, There is no recourse for the OP in this case, he knew there was finance owed, therefore protection is nullified. You really really shouldn't take a car from the forecourt without confirmation that the finance bill is fully paid if this isn't possible due to weekends or bank holidays, then leave the car with the dealership retain full payment (minus your deposit) and arrange collection that is within a reasonable time scale for the dealer to clear the finance and get you the evidence this has been done. I always check HPI I ALWAYS ask for evidence the finance is cleared (and a cheque in the post sent via recorded delivery wont cut it for me) Ive seen repossessed cars from people who trusted a dealer to pay a car on finance off only not to and have it reported stolen recovered by finance co, recovered back to finance holding yard, and not released until someone pays off the bill or a court decides who holds legal title.
    Originally posted by atrixblue.-MFR-.
    Nope. wrong wrong wrong.

    If you are a private buyer buying from the trade you can only ever be an innocent purchaser. That's what consumer laws are for. It's why you can't buy / sell a car 'as seen' to joe public, and why joe public can get an AA test on the car, but if it breaks down week later, it's you the dealer and not the AA that foot the bill.

    Do you think this is the only time this has ever happened? Of course not. In which case why is the forum not inundated with identical cases? Because there is no case, that's why,

    Because the onus is on the dealer to sort it out, and sort it out they must. The dealer was the first purchaser and was aware of the finance. It's his job to pay it off and no on else's.

    Been there, done it, got the T shirt.

    Google is very good, but what is being found, although correct is too narrow.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 30th Nov 17, 11:20 AM
    • 15,788 Posts
    • 9,078 Thanks
    motorguy
    Ok I'm not going round in circles anymore. The laws pretty clear about this. I've posted a quote of the actual law. There's legal advice pages out there clearly covering this.

    Take from it what you will. Force the dealers hand and have them stick to the agreement and settle it.
    Originally posted by arcon5
    And are you a barrister or solicitor?

    Because if not, all you're doing is quoting a line from a law and are nailing your opinion to it.

    The reality of the situation is, the car has went through a dealer and the dealer is legally obliged to settle the finance, therefore the finance company would pursue the dealer NOT the individual.

    The dealer is always viewed in law as the "expert" and thus the onus will fall to them rather than allowing them to pass the buck on to the private buyer.

    Its frankly banal that you think it works otherwise. An unscrupulous dealer - according to your "interpretation" of the law - could set themselves up, tell customers hes clearing the finance, make a fortune and abscond leaving the private buyers liable.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 30th Nov 17, 11:23 AM
    • 15,788 Posts
    • 9,078 Thanks
    motorguy
    As the law stands, Its clear, There is no recourse for the OP in this case, he knew there was finance owed, therefore protection is nullified. You really really shouldn't take a car from the forecourt without confirmation that the finance bill is fully paid if this isn't possible due to weekends or bank holidays, then leave the car with the dealership retain full payment (minus your deposit) and arrange collection that is within a reasonable time scale for the dealer to clear the finance and get you the evidence this has been done. I always check HPI I ALWAYS ask for evidence the finance is cleared (and a cheque in the post sent via recorded delivery wont cut it for me) Ive seen repossessed cars from people who trusted a dealer to pay a car on finance off only not to and have it reported stolen recovered by finance co, recovered back to finance holding yard, and not released until someone pays off the bill or a court decides who holds legal title.
    Originally posted by atrixblue.-MFR-.
    No.

    The private buyer was told by the "expert" - the car dealer - that the finance would be cleared. This happens as a matter of course and is common practice.

    The dealer cannot simply not clear the finance and pass on that liability to the private buyer.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 30th Nov 17, 11:26 AM
    • 15,788 Posts
    • 9,078 Thanks
    motorguy
    The big problem on this thread is we have one or two internet "experts" who think they are barristers because they have read one line from one law that they've googled ten minutes beforehand.

    The likes of BobbyMotors is a person with real world experience of what will happen here, based on his interaction with finance companies and motor trading NOT just something hes read on the internet.

    I too have that experience from a motor trade perspective, and wholly back what hes saying as how it will be, NOT how some internet expert thinks it might be.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 30th Nov 17, 11:27 AM
    • 15,788 Posts
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    motorguy
    Any case law or precedent?
    Originally posted by bigadaj
    Agreed.

    Can our internet barristers please provide case law / legal precedent to back up what they are saying?
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • bobbymotors
    • By bobbymotors 30th Nov 17, 11:32 AM
    • 542 Posts
    • 737 Thanks
    bobbymotors
    And are you a barrister or solicitor?

    Because if not, all you're doing is quoting a line from a law and are nailing your opinion to it.

    The reality of the situation is, the car has went through a dealer and the dealer is legally obliged to settle the finance, therefore the finance company would pursue the dealer NOT the individual.

    The dealer is always viewed in law as the "expert" and thus the onus will fall to them rather than allowing them to pass the buck on to the private buyer.

    Its frankly banal that you think it works otherwise. An unscrupulous dealer - according to your "interpretation" of the law - could set themselves up, tell customers hes clearing the finance, make a fortune and abscond leaving the private buyers liable.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Indeed. Although I suspect we will once again get the argument that this is negated because the buyer was aware of the finance.

    But it makes no difference. Joe Public is always but always viewed as an innocent purchaser.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 30th Nov 17, 2:25 PM
    • 15,788 Posts
    • 9,078 Thanks
    motorguy
    Indeed. Although I suspect we will once again get the argument that this is negated because the buyer was aware of the finance.

    But it makes no difference. Joe Public is always but always viewed as an innocent purchaser.
    Originally posted by bobbymotors
    +1

    The private buyer was told by the "expert" in this deal, the motor trader, that the finance would be cleared. It is very common for dealers not to clear the finance at the time the car arrives on the forecourt OR for them to have stocking finance on it.

    There is no loophole that allows the trader just to not clear the finance and pass the responsibility over to the private buyer.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 30th Nov 17, 2:27 PM
    • 15,788 Posts
    • 9,078 Thanks
    motorguy
    But it makes no difference. Joe Public is always but always viewed as an innocent purchaser.
    Originally posted by bobbymotors
    You and i know this because we've been out there in the real world, dealing with finance companies and dealing with real issues.

    Sadly, the armchair experts here seem to google something and suddenly they're barristers.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 30th Nov 17, 5:14 PM
    • 15,788 Posts
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    motorguy
    He isn't a reputable dealer. If he was you wouldn't be in this position.
    Originally posted by badmemory
    You have absolutely no information to back that up. You would be surprised how many errors there are on HPI reports, that dealers then have to chase up and have corrected.
    You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
    • Robby1988
    • By Robby1988 30th Nov 17, 10:56 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Robby1988
    OK, got an update.

    Desperate to know what was going on, I wrote to the old owner using the address on the logbook and he phoned me back today. I was a bit confused by his explanation but the gist of it was that it seems there has been some admin !!!! up somewhere along the line & the dealerships payment to settle the finance ended up being a bit short by a few hundred quid. He said he had been on to them to sort it as he had indeed received a missed payment letter off PSA.

    Anyway, it sounded promising so I just stumped up a tenner for a basic HPI check and the car is now showing all clear.

    Safe to say it's been a headache for the past few weeks & i'll never be driving a car off a forecourt again without confirmation of settlement!
    • bobbymotors
    • By bobbymotors 30th Nov 17, 11:03 PM
    • 542 Posts
    • 737 Thanks
    bobbymotors
    OK, got an update.

    Desperate to know what was going on, I wrote to the old owner using the address on the logbook and he phoned me back today. I was a bit confused by his explanation but the gist of it was that it seems there has been some admin !!!! up somewhere along the line & the dealerships payment to settle the finance ended up being a bit short by a few hundred quid. He said he had been on to them to sort it as he had indeed received a missed payment letter off PSA.

    Anyway, it sounded promising so I just stumped up a tenner for a basic HPI check and the car is now showing all clear.

    Safe to say it's been a headache for the past few weeks & i'll never be driving a car off a forecourt again without confirmation of settlement!
    Originally posted by Robby1988

    There you go. An honourable dealer after all. The motor trade has a poor reputation to start with, pleased this one didn't add to it

    .
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 1st Dec 17, 12:17 AM
    • 3,129 Posts
    • 7,299 Thanks
    gettingtheresometime
    OK, got an update.

    Desperate to know what was going on, I wrote to the old owner using the address on the logbook and he phoned me back today. I was a bit confused by his explanation but the gist of it was that it seems there has been some admin !!!! up somewhere along the line & the dealerships payment to settle the finance ended up being a bit short by a few hundred quid. He said he had been on to them to sort it as he had indeed received a missed payment letter off PSA.

    Anyway, it sounded promising so I just stumped up a tenner for a basic HPI check and the car is now showing all clear.

    Safe to say it's been a headache for the past few weeks & i'll never be driving a car off a forecourt again without confirmation of settlement!
    Originally posted by Robby1988
    As I thought. Glad you got it sorted
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott / Argos Card cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


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