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  • FIRST POST
    • trojan10_om
    • By trojan10_om 23rd Nov 17, 8:54 PM
    • 48Posts
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    trojan10_om
    Divorce proceedings
    • #1
    • 23rd Nov 17, 8:54 PM
    Divorce proceedings 23rd Nov 17 at 8:54 PM
    Sadly, my wife no longer wants to be with me and there is 100% no going back. I have been living with a friend for the past few weeks making a small contribution towards bills.

    I'm guessing the answer is to seek legal advice? I'm not sure where to begin. We both want to do mediation, but from initial conversation our financial expectations are very different


    We have 2 children - 4 months and 2 years
    We have a mortgage - Around 110k owed 180k equity (5 year fix started this year)
    My wife is currently on maternity leave - plans to take the full year off and go back in May.
    I work full time and contribute the majority of the finances


    I've agreed to continue splitting the finances this month in he same way we've always done - I put all my salary into a shared pot except for £200. My wife does the same with her maternity pay/child benefit.

    My wife expects this to continue until May - which isn't great for me.

    Should I just go ahead and take legal advice? How do I pay for legal advice... using the shared money? £200/month doesn't go far.

    I know I can't expect someone to come up with all the answers in a complex situation.. but any indication on what my financial responsibilities should be would be helpful.

    I have already read all the links on Citizens Advice, but they are of course all very generic
    Last edited by trojan10_om; 23-11-2017 at 8:59 PM.
Page 3
    • bluebear36
    • By bluebear36 25th Nov 17, 8:39 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    bluebear36
    Maybe he was out working hard providing for her and the children?

    You say why should she lose the house and children - fine. But why should he?

    Anyway, I agree it is irrelevant for the terms of this discussion
    Originally posted by seven-day-weekend
    I'd accept your relevance comment if you were also making it to the posters slating the wife.

    Btw she also has been working to provide, as well as being the primary caregiver. Nowhere did I say he should lose the house and kids, but she is equally as entitled to have them.
    Last edited by bluebear36; 25-11-2017 at 8:42 AM.
    • Tigsteroonie
    • By Tigsteroonie 25th Nov 17, 8:59 AM
    • 22,563 Posts
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    Tigsteroonie
    Whilst the reason of the breakdown of their marriage has no bearing, the attitude from many posters is that SHE is the one to blame.
    Originally posted by bluebear36
    Are you reading the same thread as me? I can only see two posters who have made derogatory comments, and one of those is a hypothesis (my emphasis in the latter).

    She is entitled. She just wants both the benefits and YOUR MONEY.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    but also bare in mind that if your wife can not afford the matrimonial house as it is and you can, it 'should' be perfectly reasonable to ask her to move out and you stay in the house, benefits will cover a lot of rent for her so could leave everyone better off. expect a fight and a lot of abuse if you suggest this!
    Originally posted by gonzo127
    All other posts simply state the facts - that at this point, both sides have equal entitlement; and that she needs to be practical about how she can afford to live / pay for the house / pay for children if she wishes to remain in the house and be the primary carer.

    Let's get back to helping the OP with the legal and financial side of this. If his wife wants to come on here and receive similar advice from her perspective she is free to do so; if she wants hugs and reassurance, I've heard Mumsnet is good for that
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    • gonzo127
    • By gonzo127 25th Nov 17, 10:27 AM
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    gonzo127
    Whilst the reason of the breakdown of their marriage has no bearing, the attitude from many posters is that SHE is the one to blame. There's also, of course, the opinion that being female, she WILL try to get all THEIR money. We only have the OPs version of events, so people should try to be less bitter & twisted.
    Originally posted by bluebear36
    it's not the attitude that because she is a woman she is only after his money. but the stated fact that as a person (not related to her sex) she has stated that she expects him to give her all his money for at least the next 6 months so that she can carry on living as she always has, whilst he sofa surfs in friends houses. which is totally unfair and what the op needs to state can't happen as he needs to build a life which will require money.

    the other stated point is that if she as a person can not afford to run the house on her own. the op has every right to move back into (what is legally) his house. and that practically if she stands no chance of being able to afford the upkeep of the house and the op can. then it is not unreasonable for her to move out and him stay in the house
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    • seren77
    • By seren77 25th Nov 17, 8:36 PM
    • 28 Posts
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    seren77
    She's not going to buy me out tomorrow. This negotiations/processes could go on well beyond 6 months. She's saying she's not willing to split the equity in half as her dad contributed more.

    So in the meantime I don't know what to do. Surely its essential that between us we continue paying the mortgage that we have both committed to?
    Originally posted by trojan10_om
    You need a very good solicitor immediately - ask around as to who is best in your area. You can't be expected to keep paying half/bills etc now you have left as you have your own outgoings. It's up to your wife to sort her own benefits etc out. You may end up being responsible for paying for child maintenance or you may be able to sign the house over to her instead. In my case a Charge was made on the house which is in place until the children have finished further education. I was in a similar very complicated position at the end of my marriage and it took nearly 18 months to sort the finances out legally (mainly because my ex wouldn't comply with anything or answer any solicitors letters/sign anything). In my case, because I started paying the mortgage on my own I nearly lost my house when the mortgage company found out that both of us weren't paying it any more so be careful re keeping up payments. Good legal advice immediately will help you sort this out. I ended up with a solicitor known as The Rottweiler who was very helpful
    Last edited by seren77; 25-11-2017 at 8:41 PM.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 27th Nov 17, 9:52 AM
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    Comms69
    It matters because a large proportion of the posters are acting as if the split is 100% her fault, and that she deserves to lose the kids and her home because of it!

    There are two sides to every story and maybe people should remember that.
    Originally posted by bluebear36


    So he should lose his house and his kids?.....
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 27th Nov 17, 9:57 AM
    • 1,212 Posts
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    Comms69
    Are you reading the same thread as me? I can only see two posters who have made derogatory comments, and one of those is a hypothesis (my emphasis in the latter).





    All other posts simply state the facts - that at this point, both sides have equal entitlement; and that she needs to be practical about how she can afford to live / pay for the house / pay for children if she wishes to remain in the house and be the primary carer.

    Let's get back to helping the OP with the legal and financial side of this. If his wife wants to come on here and receive similar advice from her perspective she is free to do so; if she wants hugs and reassurance, I've heard Mumsnet is good for that
    Originally posted by Tigsteroonie


    Just to be clear, my comment wasn't derogatory in the context it was provided.


    IE she wants him to carry on paying the mortgage etc and getting state support. That is her wanting his money. My opening post said he should pay what he is obliged to
    • trojan10_om
    • By trojan10_om 29th Nov 17, 3:31 PM
    • 48 Posts
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    trojan10_om
    I've been asked by Ex to agree a temporary payment until the mediation process is complete.

    She has asked for £1,010 (out of my £1,800 net salary), which I find quite excessive.
    • This is based on £385 towards the mortgage (50%) plus a small contribution towards insurance, and any essential repairs.
    • Plus £375 child maintenance which she says is 20% of my gross monthly salary. (I think I've worked it out as £288 actually
    • And (!!) £250 per month towards childcare
    )

    I've researched legal advice, and they have all said they will need to see the full financial disclosure before they can even begin to advise. Which I'm not sure it's wise to do for just a temporary agreement?

    I'm tempted to respond with the following offer

    I pay 75% of the mortgage. (Our total combined earnings meaning I contribute 75% of them) = £516.

    I then pay my 20% child maintenance out of my remaining salary £1,284 (1,800 net minus 516) = £256

    Total = £772

    While I'm the homeowner, I would also be happy to contribute 75% towards essential repairs and insurance.

    How would this sound?
    Last edited by trojan10_om; 29-11-2017 at 3:46 PM.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 29th Nov 17, 3:54 PM
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    • 1,003 Thanks
    Comms69
    I've been asked by Ex to agree a temporary payment until the mediation process is complete.

    She has asked for £1,010 (out of my £1,800 net salary), which I find quite excessive.
    • This is based on £385 towards the mortgage (50%) plus a small contribution towards insurance, and any essential repairs.
    • Plus £375 child maintenance which she says is 20% of my gross monthly salary. (I think I've worked it out as £288 actually
    • And (!!) £250 per month towards childcare
    )

    I've researched legal advice, and they have all said they will need to see the full financial disclosure before they can even begin to advise. Which I'm not sure it's wise to do for just a temporary agreement?

    I'm tempted to respond with the following offer

    I pay 75% of the mortgage. (Our total combined earnings meaning I contribute 75% of them) = £516.

    I then pay my 20% child maintenance out of my remaining salary £1,284 (1,800 net minus 516) = £256

    Total = £772

    While I'm the homeowner, I would also be happy to contribute 75% towards essential repairs and insurance.

    How would this sound?
    Originally posted by trojan10_om
    Say you'll happily pay 50% of the mortgage and you'll be moving back in tomorrow. See what the response is then.
    • triple choc chip
    • By triple choc chip 29th Nov 17, 3:54 PM
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    triple choc chip
    Hiya
    I think you are very generous. Now that your position means you can only ever hope to get a maximum share of 50% of the house and in reality your share of the split may be less, there's no reason on earth to contribute more than 50%. Remember that you will shortly be paying rent or another mortgage which could equal this mortgage payment so don't commit now to something you will struggle with in a couple of months.

    I'm glad you put the !! after 'And', because there is no child care (or new clothes or school trips) on top of child maintenance, it's one agreed amount which as you already know is a defined percentage of your income after essentials.

    Good luck
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    • gonzo127
    • By gonzo127 29th Nov 17, 4:09 PM
    • 4,403 Posts
    • 5,635 Thanks
    gonzo127
    Hiya
    I think you are very generous. Now that your position means you can only ever hope to get a maximum share of 50% of the house and in reality your share of the split may be less, there's no reason on earth to contribute more than 50%. Remember that you will shortly be paying rent or another mortgage which could equal this mortgage payment so don't commit now to something you will struggle with in a couple of months.

    I'm glad you put the !! after 'And', because there is no child care (or new clothes or school trips) on top of child maintenance, it's one agreed amount which as you already know is a defined percentage of your income after essentials.

    Good luck
    Originally posted by triple choc chip
    actually child maintenance is a legal amount of the income BEFORE essentials, the ONLY deduction made to the wage before child maintenance is calculated in the pension contribution.

    with that in mind, you NEED to calculate the LEGAL amount of child support/maintenance you need to pay, and make sure you pay this, do it via bank transfer and label this as child maintenance, do not, and i mean this, do not EVER mix this payment in with any other payments, as you need to be clear when/if this goes to court that you have always paid the correct amount of child maintenance.

    all other payments need to be calculated after this, and never used to reduce the child maintenance or mixed with it.

    and personally i think you are being extremely generous with what you are considering offering, i would ask though is if you paid her over half of your wages, can you afford to rent somewhere yourself? as well as pay the bills and buy food etc,

    if you can not afford to live yourself, then you are offering too much,

    how long will your friends really want to keep on helping you by letting you sleep on their sofa, and denying them there own space and privacy? how fair is it on your friends to impose yourself on their life like you are doing???
    Drop a brand challenge
    on a £100 shop you might on average get 70 items save
    10p per product = £7 a week ~ £28 a month
    20p per product = £14 a week ~ £56 a month
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    • SunnyCyprus
    • By SunnyCyprus 29th Nov 17, 4:12 PM
    • 60 Posts
    • 151 Thanks
    SunnyCyprus
    Start with this..
    https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-child-maintenance
    It will tell you exactly what you should pay as child maintenance.
    Then contact mortgage provider and inform them about separation.

    What I would do is move back into family home, into spare room and put the house up for sale. Live there until itís sold, split whatever you have left after the sale and go your seperate ways.

    If your wife wants to keep the house, then lovely...she can buy you out of the mortgage.
    If you want to do something, you will find a way.
    If you don't, then you will find an excuse...
    • trojan10_om
    • By trojan10_om 29th Nov 17, 4:20 PM
    • 48 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    trojan10_om
    actually child maintenance is a legal amount of the income BEFORE essentials, the ONLY deduction made to the wage before child maintenance is calculated in the pension contribution.

    with that in mind, you NEED to calculate the LEGAL amount of child support/maintenance you need to pay, and make sure you pay this, do it via bank transfer and label this as child maintenance, do not, and i mean this, do not EVER mix this payment in with any other payments, as you need to be clear when/if this goes to court that you have always paid the correct amount of child maintenance.

    all other payments need to be calculated after this, and never used to reduce the child maintenance or mixed with it.

    and personally i think you are being extremely generous with what you are considering offering, i would ask though is if you paid her over half of your wages, can you afford to rent somewhere yourself? as well as pay the bills and buy food etc,

    if you can not afford to live yourself, then you are offering too much,

    how long will your friends really want to keep on helping you by letting you sleep on their sofa, and denying them there own space and privacy? how fair is it on your friends to impose yourself on their life like you are doing???
    Originally posted by gonzo127
    Thanks for the advice, very useful.

    If I was to offer standard child maintenance as a percentage of my gross salary it would be £400. If I included a separate payment of 50% towards the mortgage (£385) the total I would offer would be very similar £785.

    I guess it could be seen as generous as I'm paying for 50% for something I'm not living in. But I'm really not sure I can offer less than 50%?
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 29th Nov 17, 4:24 PM
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    Comms69
    Thanks for the advice, very useful.

    If I was to offer standard child maintenance as a percentage of my gross salary it would be £400. If I included a separate payment of 50% towards the mortgage (£385) the total I would offer would be very similar £785.

    I guess it could be seen as generous as I'm paying for 50% for something I'm not living in. But I'm really not sure I can offer less than 50%?
    Originally posted by trojan10_om
    Why are you offering anything at all?
    • trojan10_om
    • By trojan10_om 29th Nov 17, 4:27 PM
    • 48 Posts
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    trojan10_om
    Why are you offering anything at all?
    Originally posted by Comms69
    Towards the mortgage? Because I own the house, I signed up to a 5 year fixed deal, I don't want to default on payment.

    Anything I pay for the next 6 months, I will more or less get back when I sell my equity?
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 29th Nov 17, 4:31 PM
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    Comms69
    Towards the mortgage? Because I own the house, I signed up to a 5 year fixed deal, I don't want to default on payment.
    Originally posted by trojan10_om
    But so did she. Why is it your problem?


    Im not trying to be difficult, you can do as you wish. But sometimes asking the awkward questions can help people realise
    • gonzo127
    • By gonzo127 29th Nov 17, 4:32 PM
    • 4,403 Posts
    • 5,635 Thanks
    gonzo127
    Thanks for the advice, very useful.

    If I was to offer standard child maintenance as a percentage of my gross salary it would be £400. If I included a separate payment of 50% towards the mortgage (£385) the total I would offer would be very similar £785.

    I guess it could be seen as generous as I'm paying for 50% for something I'm not living in. But I'm really not sure I can offer less than 50%?
    Originally posted by trojan10_om
    if/when it goes to court, they will look at each persons 'needs' your needs will include the ability to house yourself, including bills, food, clothes etc etc, so you need to work out what YOU need to live, before you go offering her any more than the child maintenance.

    so work out the child maintenance you need to provide.

    then work out how much you need to live, without sofa surfing at friends houses, so actually renting your own place, paying council tax, gas/elec/phone/broadband/tv, buying food and clothes, travelling to and from work etc etc, honestly you should be creating your own statement of affairs (look on the debt free wannbe part of the forums for links to good SOA's) so that you can see just how much money you need to live a normal life.

    once you know how much you need to pay for child maintenance, and to live your own life, then you can consider putting any spare money towards the upkeep of the house and your ex wife's life style.

    do not do it before you know what you need, as then you are only setting yourself up to fail or struggle or annoying your friends to the point that they just kick you out.
    Drop a brand challenge
    on a £100 shop you might on average get 70 items save
    10p per product = £7 a week ~ £28 a month
    20p per product = £14 a week ~ £56 a month
    30p per product = £21 a week ~ £84 a month (or in other words one weeks shoping at the new price)
    • Katapolt
    • By Katapolt 29th Nov 17, 4:43 PM
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    Katapolt
    I just want to add to this - please don't try and wrangle paying less child maintenance. It will only mess up 2 little people in that house.

    Your kids might be young, but they need support.
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    • Happier Me
    • By Happier Me 29th Nov 17, 5:30 PM
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    Happier Me
    I just want to add to this - please don't try and wrangle paying less child maintenance. It will only mess up 2 little people in that house.

    Your kids might be young, but they need support.
    I think the OP has every intention of paying the child maintenance due. The question is whether he should pay more given that this will leave him unable to house himself adequately when his wife should be able to access benefits.

    OP I'm on the fence with regard to you paying 50% of the mortgage. I would do as advised and work out the money needed to house, feed and clothe yourself etc! Include child maintenance. Completing an SOA might help. Then see what's left! But I see an argument for contributing towards a loan that you are legally obliged to pay on an asset that belongs to you. But your wife is also living there.

    If you can afford to pay 50% then do so if you want to. If not then at least you can provide a counter offer knowing you've done the sums.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 29th Nov 17, 5:34 PM
    • 28,630 Posts
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    Mojisola
    OP I'm on the fence with regard to you paying 50% of the mortgage. I would do as advised and work out the money needed to house, feed and clothe yourself etc! Include child maintenance. Completing an SOA might help. Then see what's left! But I see an argument for contributing towards a loan that you are legally obliged to pay on an asset that belongs to you. But your wife is also living there.
    Originally posted by Happier Me
    And recognise that the household won't be short of money because everything you give will be on top of the benefits that your ex is entitled to claim.

    If she chooses not to claim, don't feel pressurised to making up for her decision by paying her more.
    • triple choc chip
    • By triple choc chip 29th Nov 17, 6:03 PM
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    triple choc chip
    actually child maintenance is a legal amount of the income BEFORE essentials, the ONLY deduction made to the wage before child maintenance is calculated in the pension contribution.
    Originally posted by gonzo127
    Thanks for the correction gonzo127
    Life's greatest satisfactions: Getting the last laugh, having the last word and paying the last instalment.
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