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  • FIRST POST
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 22nd Nov 17, 3:04 PM
    • 3,126Posts
    • 4,158Thanks
    Nick_C
    0 WOW
    Air Passenger Duty
    • #1
    • 22nd Nov 17, 3:04 PM
    0 WOW
    Air Passenger Duty 22nd Nov 17 at 3:04 PM
    Very disappointed with the news on APD in today's budget.

    On a commercial flight, there are two rates of APD.

    Long haul, this is currently £75 in Economy or £150 in Premium Economy.

    From April 2018, this increases to £78 and £156.

    From April 2019, Economy stays at £78 but Premium Economy goes up to £174. So that's an extra £96 tax if you want a comfortable seat.

    Airlines are cramming more and more seats into their planes. Seat pitch has generally reduced from 34" to 31". Seats have got narrower as planes are being fitted with 10 seats across instead of 9 (B777) or 9 seats across instead of the planned 8 (B787 "Dreamliner")

    Long haul economy has become unbearable for many of us, and Premium Economy should offer a reasonable amount of comfort for a reasonable supplement. Unfortunately, to get a Premium Economy seat, we will now have to pay an extra £96 tax, and that's got to be factored into the price the airline charges.

    With PE typically costing an extra £200 each way, the tax on Premium Economy currently adds around 60% to the cost of a one way upgrade. The increase from 2019 will add about 75% to the cost of an upgrade.

    Bizarrely, APD is the same whether you are in Premium Economy, Business, or First. A badly structured and unfair tax.

    People wanting to fly PE or Business should consider flying to Dublin and starting their journey there.
Page 1
    • Ganga
    • By Ganga 22nd Nov 17, 3:32 PM
    • 862 Posts
    • 422 Thanks
    Ganga
    • #2
    • 22nd Nov 17, 3:32 PM
    • #2
    • 22nd Nov 17, 3:32 PM
    Very disappointed with the news on APD in today's budget.

    On a commercial flight, there are two rates of APD.

    Long haul, this is currently £75 in Economy or £150 in Premium Economy.

    From April 2018, this increases to £78 and £156.

    From April 2019, Economy stays at £78 but Premium Economy goes up to £174. So that's an extra £96 tax if you want a comfortable seat.

    Airlines are cramming more and more seats into their planes. Seat pitch has generally reduced from 34" to 31". Seats have got narrower as planes are being fitted with 10 seats across instead of 9 (B777) or 9 seats across instead of the planned 8 (B787 "Dreamliner")

    Long haul economy has become unbearable for many of us, and Premium Economy should offer a reasonable amount of comfort for a reasonable supplement. Unfortunately, to get a Premium Economy seat, we will now have to pay an extra £96 tax, and that's got to be factored into the price the airline charges.

    With PE typically costing an extra £200 each way, the tax on Premium Economy currently adds around 60% to the cost of a one way upgrade. The increase from 2019 will add about 75% to the cost of an upgrade.

    Bizarrely, APD is the same whether you are in Premium Economy, Business, or First. A badly structured and unfair tax.

    People wanting to fly PE or Business should consider flying to Dublin and starting their journey there.
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    Surely the increase is only £48 ie £24 each way.
    ITS NOT EASY TO GET EVERYTHING WRONG ,I HAVE TO WORK HARD TO DO IT!
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 22nd Nov 17, 3:40 PM
    • 3,126 Posts
    • 4,158 Thanks
    Nick_C
    • #3
    • 22nd Nov 17, 3:40 PM
    • #3
    • 22nd Nov 17, 3:40 PM
    APD in PE in 2019 will be £24 more than it is today.

    And it only applies on flights from the UK. You don't pay it on the return flight.

    But the extra tax you will have to pay to travel PE instead of economy will increase from £75 to £94.

    I think the APD for PE is already unfair. This increase makes it even worse than it is currently. A percentage of the basic fare would be proportionate and a fair system. This would correlate to distance flown and space occupied and would make it a greener tax.
    Last edited by Nick_C; 22-11-2017 at 3:43 PM.
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 22nd Nov 17, 3:56 PM
    • 1,822 Posts
    • 3,795 Thanks
    IAmWales
    • #4
    • 22nd Nov 17, 3:56 PM
    • #4
    • 22nd Nov 17, 3:56 PM
    Long haul economy has become unbearable for many of us,
    Then you need to get over yourself. Economy is what you make of it, it's rarely going to be comfortable but to suggest it is unbearable is ridiculous.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 22nd Nov 17, 4:12 PM
    • 3,126 Posts
    • 4,158 Thanks
    Nick_C
    • #5
    • 22nd Nov 17, 4:12 PM
    • #5
    • 22nd Nov 17, 4:12 PM
    Then you need to get over yourself. Economy is what you make of it, it's rarely going to be comfortable but to suggest it is unbearable is ridiculous.
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    No thanks. I don't need to "get over myself".

    Economy should be comfortable. Why should you expect to be uncomfortable for 11 hours?

    Many airlines now give you 82% of the space you had 15 years ago.

    How tightly are you going to let them pack you in in order to get a cheap ticket?

    Long haul economy has become unbearable for many of us. Clearly not for you.
    • dj1471
    • By dj1471 22nd Nov 17, 10:24 PM
    • 952 Posts
    • 635 Thanks
    dj1471
    • #6
    • 22nd Nov 17, 10:24 PM
    • #6
    • 22nd Nov 17, 10:24 PM
    Then you need to get over yourself. Economy is what you make of it, it's rarely going to be comfortable but to suggest it is unbearable is ridiculous.
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    That really depends on the airline and the aircraft, you can't make a blanket statement either way. I've suffered through unbearable long-haul economy flights and I've had some very nice ones.

    Premium seats are hugely overpriced, especially premium economy. If you're paying £2,000 per ticket you can afford another £24.

    It's also possible that airlines will take the hit on their profit margins rather than raise ticket prices, especially on the more competitive routes.
    • jpsartre
    • By jpsartre 23rd Nov 17, 7:53 AM
    • 2,772 Posts
    • 1,843 Thanks
    jpsartre
    • #7
    • 23rd Nov 17, 7:53 AM
    • #7
    • 23rd Nov 17, 7:53 AM
    Economy is what you make of it, it's rarely going to be comfortable but to suggest it is unbearable is ridiculous.
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    Surely that's a subjective matter?
    • richardw
    • By richardw 23rd Nov 17, 8:03 AM
    • 18,341 Posts
    • 7,589 Thanks
    richardw
    • #8
    • 23rd Nov 17, 8:03 AM
    • #8
    • 23rd Nov 17, 8:03 AM
    ....Economy is what you make of it, it's rarely going to be comfortable but to suggest it is unbearable is ridiculous.
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    Have you been long haul in Economy on a B787 Dreamliner with 3-3-3, 31" pitch seating?
    Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.
    • budgetflyer
    • By budgetflyer 23rd Nov 17, 6:42 PM
    • 5,653 Posts
    • 3,617 Thanks
    budgetflyer
    • #9
    • 23rd Nov 17, 6:42 PM
    • #9
    • 23rd Nov 17, 6:42 PM
    What a plonk. He could have cut benefit payments to the poor, single parents, disabled and old folk. Instead he puts up APD!!!.
    Its hardly worth being rich anymore :-(
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 23rd Nov 17, 6:59 PM
    • 3,126 Posts
    • 4,158 Thanks
    Nick_C
    What a plonk. He could have cut benefit payments to the poor, single parents, disabled and old folk. Instead he puts up APD!!!.
    Its hardly worth being rich anymore :-(
    Originally posted by budgetflyer
    I'm certainly not rich. And I think the Government should be raising taxes. It's frightening that 7½ years on we are still running a budget deficit and will be doing so for at least a further 5 years. If individuals behaved this way they would be heading for the bankruptcy courts.

    But taxes should be fair. Making someone pay almost £100 additional tax for an economy seat with a reasonable amount of space does not seem fair to me. The same tax that people in First or Business class pay. A percentage tax would be fairer IMO.

    What's your opinion on this issue budgetflyer? Or can you only offer sarcasm?
    • malkie76
    • By malkie76 24th Nov 17, 9:42 AM
    • 5,424 Posts
    • 6,197 Thanks
    malkie76
    This is just yet again another unfair, indefensible progressive tax.

    Why should anyone pay additional tax because they wish to pay more for a better service ? Why should HMRC be rewarded for that?
    Legal team on standby
    • Ganga
    • By Ganga 24th Nov 17, 10:35 AM
    • 862 Posts
    • 422 Thanks
    Ganga
    This is just yet again another unfair, indefensible progressive tax.

    Why should anyone pay additional tax because they wish to pay more for a better service ? Why should HMRC be rewarded for that?
    Originally posted by malkie76
    I suppose it is a bit like Robin Hood, where is the profit in robbing the poor,more money made by targeting the rich
    ITS NOT EASY TO GET EVERYTHING WRONG ,I HAVE TO WORK HARD TO DO IT!
    • Westin
    • By Westin 24th Nov 17, 11:57 AM
    • 1,203 Posts
    • 886 Thanks
    Westin
    I do think that they should look at the divide as to when the double APD kicks in.

    I personally think Premium Economy should have APD levied at the same rate as Economy. The divide for the higher APD should only apply for Business Class, First Class or private flights overseas in business jets.

    Someone who is travelling say one a year on a TUI or Thomas Cook flight to Orlando in their Premium cabin should not (at least in my opinion) be charged the same tax as a business traveller who flys regularly in Club World or First Class to Miami.
    • JaneB*
    • By JaneB* 29th Nov 17, 11:11 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    JaneB*
    Airlines are writing their own cheques. Flights to the Caribbean for some wintersun £1000plus but on top of that you are only allowed one case and have to pay £65 for an extra bag. Flights to Africa and India way cheaper but they are allowed two bags concession. BA and Virgin you need to be fair.
    • leylandsunaddict
    • By leylandsunaddict 30th Nov 17, 11:08 AM
    • 1,536 Posts
    • 1,045 Thanks
    leylandsunaddict
    Airlines are writing their own cheques. Flights to the Caribbean for some wintersun £1000plus but on top of that you are only allowed one case and have to pay £65 for an extra bag. Flights to Africa and India way cheaper but they are allowed two bags concession. BA and Virgin you need to be fair.
    Originally posted by JaneB*
    Surely the price depends on route and date and of course prices will be higher this winter if booking now, because there will be less availability and the cheaper fare buckets will be empty. 23kg checked luggage is plenty for me for a 2/3 week holiday.
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