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  • FIRST POST
    • jez9999
    • By jez9999 21st Nov 17, 6:48 PM
    • 9Posts
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    jez9999
    Am I entitled to a replacement?
    • #1
    • 21st Nov 17, 6:48 PM
    Am I entitled to a replacement? 21st Nov 17 at 6:48 PM
    I ordered a Windsor 105 White Vanity Basin Unit online from BetterBathrooms (I can't link the product page because I'm a new user) on the 9th October and it was dispatched on the 14th. I paid by credit card (Barclaycard). I did sign for receipt of delivery I believe. My builder has just gotten round to installing the vanity unit and opened the packaging, and the basin is cracked. As far as I know it was like this when I received it (the packaging has been on since delivery).

    I contacted BetterBathrooms about this and told them, sending a photo of the cracked basin. They've replied and said that since I didn't tell them in the first 7 days, they "would not look at replacing this free of charge".

    I've been reading the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and I believe it entitles me to a replacement of the basin. The only bit that I found very vague was this:

    (14)For the purposes of subsections (3)(b) and (c) and (4), goods which do not conform to the contract at any time within the period of six months beginning with the day on which the goods were delivered to the consumer must be taken not to have conformed to it on that day.

    (15)Subsection (14) does not apply if—

    (a)it is established that the goods did conform to the contract on that day, or

    (b)its application is incompatible with the nature of the goods or with how they fail to conform to the contract.
    Could anyone advise how it is "established that the goods did conform to the contract on that day"? If you signed a receipt of delivery does that establish that the goods confirmed to the contract? Hardly anyone examines goods thoroughly when they sign those. Am I entitled to a replacement without charge? How should I proceed to get one?
    Last edited by jez9999; 21-11-2017 at 6:52 PM.
Page 1
    • societys child
    • By societys child 21st Nov 17, 8:54 PM
    • 4,891 Posts
    • 5,331 Thanks
    societys child
    • #2
    • 21st Nov 17, 8:54 PM
    • #2
    • 21st Nov 17, 8:54 PM
    Hardly anyone examines goods thoroughly when they sign those.
    Maybe not, but I always open the package immediately afterwards, to check for damage and avoid the position you now find yourself in.

    • jez9999
    • By jez9999 22nd Nov 17, 9:02 AM
    • 9 Posts
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    jez9999
    • #3
    • 22nd Nov 17, 9:02 AM
    • #3
    • 22nd Nov 17, 9:02 AM
    But is the Consumer Rights Act rendered useless just because you didn't open every package? Seems a bit much.
    • jez9999
    • By jez9999 29th Nov 17, 10:30 PM
    • 9 Posts
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    jez9999
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 17, 10:30 PM
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 17, 10:30 PM
    Why has my question got so few replies? Most posts here have over 10 and I have virtually none. Seems a bit unfair.
    • comeandgo
    • By comeandgo 29th Nov 17, 10:34 PM
    • 1,876 Posts
    • 2,517 Thanks
    comeandgo
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 10:34 PM
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 10:34 PM
    youve left it too long to get a free replacement. You should have checked the items delivered for any sort of damage.
    • London50
    • By London50 29th Nov 17, 10:45 PM
    • 1,532 Posts
    • 1,446 Thanks
    London50
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 10:45 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 10:45 PM
    Why has my question got so few replies? Most posts here have over 10 and I have virtually none. Seems a bit unfair.
    Originally posted by jez9999
    Perhaps because you have the replies that are correct therefore no need for others to state the same, unless you are waiting for the one that says you should get a replacement {somehow I do not think that will happen }
    • jez9999
    • By jez9999 30th Nov 17, 11:52 AM
    • 9 Posts
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    jez9999
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:52 AM
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:52 AM
    Why will it not happen? Why is this not covered under the Consumer Rights Act 2015? That gives you 6 months!!!
    • LABMAN
    • By LABMAN 30th Nov 17, 11:58 AM
    • 698 Posts
    • 1,159 Thanks
    LABMAN
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:58 AM
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:58 AM
    Why will it not happen? Why is this not covered under the Consumer Rights Act 2015? That gives you 6 months!!!
    Originally posted by jez9999
    Gives you six months for what? It doesn't give you six months to open a package and check it.
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 30th Nov 17, 11:59 AM
    • 3,126 Posts
    • 7,290 Thanks
    gettingtheresometime
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:59 AM
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 17, 11:59 AM
    On the basis you're throwing your toys out of the pram because a) you're not getting the answer you wanted and b) you've been given the answer so there's no point in any one else adding anything .....I'm out
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott / Argos Card cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


    Next on the list - JD Williams
    • jez9999
    • By jez9999 30th Nov 17, 12:14 PM
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    jez9999
    Gives you six months for what? It doesn't give you six months to open a package and check it.
    Originally posted by LABMAN
    Actually, from my reading of the law, that's precisely what it does:

    (3)If the goods do not conform to the contract because of a breach of any of the terms described in sections 9, 10, 11, 13 and 14, or if they do not conform to the contract under section 16, the consumer's rights (and the provisions about them and when they are available) are—

    (a)the short-term right to reject (sections 20 and 22);

    (b)the right to repair or replacement (section 23); and

    (c)the right to a price reduction or the final right to reject (sections 20 and 24).
    ...
    (14)For the purposes of subsections (3)(b) and (c) and (4), goods which do not conform to the contract at any time within the period of six months beginning with the day on which the goods were delivered to the consumer must be taken not to have conformed to it on that day.
    In other words, if the goods are not of satisfactory quality (damaged) within the first six months, it should be assumed that they were not of satisfactory quality on the day they were delivered. This applies for (3)(b) which is the right to repair or replacement.
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 30th Nov 17, 12:16 PM
    • 1,388 Posts
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    Oakdene
    What did it say on the delivery receipt that you signed?
    Hiraeth
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 30th Nov 17, 12:19 PM
    • 1,388 Posts
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    Oakdene
    On their website it says

    Please ensure you report any damages to our Customer Services Department within 7 days of delivery.


    I would hazard a guess it says something similar on the delivery receipt that you signed.

    https://www.betterbathrooms.com/delivery
    Hiraeth
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 30th Nov 17, 12:21 PM
    • 2,689 Posts
    • 1,934 Thanks
    BoGoF
    Actually, from my reading of the law, that's precisely what it does:
    Originally posted by jez9999

    Oh well, everybody else must be wrong then. So do you seriously think if you open a parcel 5 months and 30 days after receipt and it is broken that it is reasonable to argue it was like that when you received it?
    • jez9999
    • By jez9999 30th Nov 17, 12:23 PM
    • 9 Posts
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    jez9999
    Oh well, everybody else must be wrong then. So do you seriously think if you open a parcel 5 months and 30 days after receipt and it is broken that it is reasonable to argue it was like that when you received it?
    Originally posted by BoGoF
    So why did they put "six months" in the Consumer Rights Act then? Did they just put it in for no reason or is there some other scenario where the 6 months would apply?
    • jez9999
    • By jez9999 30th Nov 17, 12:26 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    jez9999
    On their website it says

    Please ensure you report any damages to our Customer Services Department within 7 days of delivery.


    I would hazard a guess it says something similar on the delivery receipt that you signed.
    Originally posted by Oakdene
    Even if it did, the Consumer Rights Act says that any terms of a contract that reduce the retailer's liability are null and void, so how is this relevant?
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 30th Nov 17, 12:30 PM
    • 2,689 Posts
    • 1,934 Thanks
    BoGoF
    You are reading that bit of legislation in isolation. The law expects you to inspect goods delivered within a 'reasonable' period. Reasonable is not defined but the 7 days your supplier states would likely be deemed reasonable by a court. If you want to argue a month is reasonable then good luck to you.


    I'm out as well
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 30th Nov 17, 12:32 PM
    • 3,565 Posts
    • 3,613 Thanks
    DoaM
    6 months came from the Sale of Goods Act, whereupon the burden of responsibility switches from seller to consumer after 6 months. (It's the same basic meaning in the CRA).

    You do have a case. However this is how it will go:

    1) Consumer reports issue after a few months
    2) Seller reviews the claim, finds the POD that the consumer has signed and says "It was OK on delivery therefore you must have damaged it". (Assuming the damage is by impact and not the sort of fault that could have developed)
    3) Consumer now has to prove the fault was there from the outset.

    Realistically you'll need to go the court route. Sending them a Letter Before Action first is probably the best step to take now ... this may spur them into providing a suitable resolution rather than risk court. If still no joy then you could raise an MCOL claim ... again they may decide discretion is the better part of valour and settle the claim rather than risk the costs of defending.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 30th Nov 17, 12:43 PM
    • 4,659 Posts
    • 6,110 Thanks
    spadoosh
    So why did they put "six months" in the Consumer Rights Act then? Did they just put it in for no reason or is there some other scenario where the 6 months would apply?
    Originally posted by jez9999
    Could anyone advise how it is "established that the goods did conform to the contract on that day"?

    Theyll have evidence that they sent it out in an unbroken state (quality control). Beyond that the only evidence youve got is its broken when you decided to open it. There is a large scope for liability in that time.

    Its all well and good you saying you (or the fitter or the postie or your OH or a space man) havent dropped it but i highly doubt you can prove that? If you can prove that they sent you a faulty product youre on to a winner. Opening the box 6 weeks after receiving is not conclusive evidence that they sent it faulty.

    Your best bet would be to initiate a complaint explaining your disappointment and appeal to their compassionate side. Dont start going on about rights and what they have to do, look at a route to mitigate your losses (ie a half price replacement) If your a valuable customer your complaint should carry more weight. Im fairly confident you will be reliant on their goodwill as opposed to your statutory rights.

    Im more than happy to believe you did receive it faulty and its is their fault (probably the couriers if were honest) but you have to be able to prove it. Can you do that?
    Don't be angry!
    • jez9999
    • By jez9999 30th Nov 17, 12:50 PM
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    jez9999
    Im more than happy to believe you did receive it faulty and its is their fault (probably the couriers if were honest) but you have to be able to prove it. Can you do that?
    Originally posted by spadoosh
    Nope. But as you said they can't prove that it wasn't damaged in delivery either so why should the onus fall on me to prove I didn't damage it?
    • Oakdene
    • By Oakdene 30th Nov 17, 12:51 PM
    • 1,388 Posts
    • 4,153 Thanks
    Oakdene
    Nope. But as you said they can't prove that it wasn't damaged in delivery either so why should the onus fall on me to prove I didn't damage it?
    Originally posted by jez9999
    Because they will have a document saying something along the lines of 'I the buyer (or person receipting these goods) confirm they are in satisfactory quality'.
    Hiraeth
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