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  • FIRST POST
    • Fearno
    • By Fearno 21st Nov 17, 12:15 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 10Thanks
    Fearno
    court case this Friday
    • #1
    • 21st Nov 17, 12:15 PM
    court case this Friday 21st Nov 17 at 12:15 PM
    Hi All
    I am due at court this Friday to fight UK Car Park Management/ Gladstones for a totally unfair parking ticket. The details are as follows
    - vehicle parked correctly in visitors space, not outside lines or over 24 hours
    - permit obtained from householder and clearly displayed in 13 photos taken by parking enforcement agent)
    - ticket issued
    - appealed to UKCPM
    - appeal rejected stating that the permit was invalid as it was a photocopy and did not have an holographic symbol, letter states that even if the driver did not intentionally breach the conditions it was still an offence.
    - Going to court on Friday to fight this as this is totally unreasonable and implies an almost Police state
    Comments would be appreciated although full details cant be released until after Friday of course.
    Last edited by Fearno; 21-11-2017 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Spelling
Page 1
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 21st Nov 17, 12:21 PM
    • 1,806 Posts
    • 3,186 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #2
    • 21st Nov 17, 12:21 PM
    • #2
    • 21st Nov 17, 12:21 PM
    Have you done your Witness Statement? Have you sent your list of costs. Have you done a Skeleton Argument. Costs and Skelly can be done now.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 21st Nov 17, 12:22 PM
    • 33,473 Posts
    • 17,354 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #3
    • 21st Nov 17, 12:22 PM
    • #3
    • 21st Nov 17, 12:22 PM
    Bit late to come here - presumably your defence/ws etc have all now been submitted?


    Read up on court in #2 of the newbies thread near the top of the forum, to get an understanding of how it will pan out in court - and read up the section on ROA
    • Fearno
    • By Fearno 21st Nov 17, 12:38 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Fearno
    • #4
    • 21st Nov 17, 12:38 PM
    Skeleton Argument
    • #4
    • 21st Nov 17, 12:38 PM
    Hi I have outlined my defence previously to the court as Gladstones wanted a quick decision in writing as they feel that it is an "open and shut case"

    I have read the other forums and intend to argue whether the representative has right of audience, if a conflict of interest is occurring and to argue against legal costs that may be awarded. i have not included my costs.

    I am not by any stretch of the imagination, a solicitor or similar but believe in fair play and intend to fight this as all the facts i feel are in my favour.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 21st Nov 17, 12:56 PM
    • 1,806 Posts
    • 3,186 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #5
    • 21st Nov 17, 12:56 PM
    • #5
    • 21st Nov 17, 12:56 PM
    i have not included my costs.
    As my signature says - get them in.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=73272869&postcount=41
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • Fearno
    • By Fearno 21st Nov 17, 1:50 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Fearno
    • #6
    • 21st Nov 17, 1:50 PM
    costs
    • #6
    • 21st Nov 17, 1:50 PM
    Thanks for that i didn't realise how it mounts up!

    Peter
    • Fearno
    • By Fearno 24th Nov 17, 11:19 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Fearno
    • #7
    • 24th Nov 17, 11:19 AM
    • #7
    • 24th Nov 17, 11:19 AM
    Hi all

    Won the case, of course! Awarded £109.00 in expenses. The whole case revolved around the word "Valid" on the signage. It was proven that it did not say " no photocopied permits" or " must have a holographic symbol". So the driver took every action possible to comply, even though he had a lawful reason for parking there. I am looking forward to see the new signs with pictures of a valid permit to compare to in the future lol

    Thanks for all the advice

    Peter
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 24th Nov 17, 11:22 AM
    • 1,739 Posts
    • 2,837 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    • #8
    • 24th Nov 17, 11:22 AM
    • #8
    • 24th Nov 17, 11:22 AM
    well done! When you've recovered from the glory of your win, would you mind writing a warts and all account for other users? It tends to set minds at rest when people read a blow by blow account of what it was like.
    • Fearno
    • By Fearno 24th Nov 17, 11:29 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Fearno
    • #9
    • 24th Nov 17, 11:29 AM
    • #9
    • 24th Nov 17, 11:29 AM
    Hi all

    I will give a full account as soon as I can for the benefit of others

    Peter
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 24th Nov 17, 11:37 AM
    • 1,739 Posts
    • 2,837 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    Please include name of judge and court if you can as well, enjoy your moment of glory, I hope you're going out for Friday lunch!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 24th Nov 17, 11:39 AM
    • 15,841 Posts
    • 24,567 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Hi all

    I will give a full account as soon as I can for the benefit of others

    Peter
    Originally posted by Fearno
    Well done Peter.

    A court report would be excellent, reading about court successes does really help to offset the tedium of the constant repetition of answers we are giving, ad nauseam, day after day.

    The name of the Judge, his/her court location and who repped for Gs/PPC and how he/she performed, would be great information.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 24th Nov 17, 11:45 AM
    • 1,135 Posts
    • 1,159 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Well done!
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 24th Nov 17, 12:11 PM
    • 6,442 Posts
    • 8,242 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Hi all

    Won the case, of course! Awarded £109.00 in expenses. The whole case revolved around the word "Valid" on the signage. It was proven that it did not say " no photocopied permits" or " must have a holographic symbol". So the driver took every action possible to comply, even though he had a lawful reason for parking there. I am looking forward to see the new signs with pictures of a valid permit to compare to in the future lol

    Thanks for all the advice

    Peter
    Originally posted by Fearno
    Well done Peter, don't forget to tell the Parking Prankster

    UK Car Park Management got Gladstoned

    Makes you wonder why UKCPM keep using the
    incompetent Gladstones

    The courts must be sick to death with the
    Gladstones rubbish
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 24th Nov 17, 12:43 PM
    • 7,409 Posts
    • 6,455 Thanks
    The Deep
    Tell all the other residents, if there is an AGM ask that the PPC be dismissed.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 24th Nov 17, 4:25 PM
    • 1,806 Posts
    • 3,186 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    I will give a full account as soon as I can for the benefit of others
    Would you like to use some of your costs for a transcript of the judgment taking particular enjoyment that UKCPM are paying for it. Should cost around £50 so still plenty for a meal out for two.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 24th Nov 17, 4:45 PM
    • 1,193 Posts
    • 2,360 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Fantastic, well done.

    Looking forward to your court report.

    And, +1 with IamEmanresu
    • Fearno
    • By Fearno 6th Dec 17, 8:26 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Fearno
    Good morning all, apologies for the delay but I have been away bathing in my glorious victory, well not quite but I did receive a cheque from Gladstones this morning, ah!!!

    Quick update, I have since learned that UKPCM have another victim at the same site. 17 year old lad with a valid permit on his passenger seat , not on dashboard. He was parked lawfully, important point that, he appealed and of course they have rejected the appeal. I have spoken to his mother but he is in the middle of his A levels so will probably pay the £60.00 as he will worry too much. Yet again these bullies are picking on the innocent. His mother is writing to the management company with a strongly worded complaint, might get some result but I doubt it! I will give you all a breakdown of my case separately so people can have some support.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 6th Dec 17, 8:47 AM
    • 6,442 Posts
    • 8,242 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Good morning all, apologies for the delay but I have been away bathing in my glorious victory, well not quite but I did receive a cheque from Gladstones this morning, ah!!!

    Quick update, I have since learned that UKPCM have another victim at the same site. 17 year old lad with a valid permit on his passenger seat , not on dashboard. He was parked lawfully, important point that, he appealed and of course they have rejected the appeal. I have spoken to his mother but he is in the middle of his A levels so will probably pay the £60.00 as he will worry too much. Yet again these bullies are picking on the innocent. His mother is writing to the management company with a strongly worded complaint, might get some result but I doubt it! I will give you all a breakdown of my case separately so people can have some support.
    Originally posted by Fearno
    GREAT ... bank that cheque quickly, you never know.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Fearno
    • By Fearno 6th Dec 17, 8:51 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Fearno
    UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT LTD vs Fearno

    Fearno represented himself
    Gladstone Solicitors represented by a very nervous " solicitor"
    Before DDJ Simpson at Milton Keynes County Court Nov 2017

    Gladstones have supplied defendant with copies of letters and 18 photos supporting the undisputed facts that my van was parked lawfully with a parking permit clearly displayed on dashboard.

    Defendant did not present any evidence as Gladstones/ UKCPM have kindly presented enough to dismiss the case themselves, sorry couldn't resist the irony!

    Judge had in his possession a copy of my defence written on the original court papers outlining several points, i.e. I did not know the the permit was photocopied, it was supplied in good faith by the home owner and that I had tried to resolve the issue with the claimants but they flatly refused to back down as the permit was not valid.

    Judge opened with my facts and asked the " solicitor" to establish the definition of " valid" in relation to the permit. He then stated that the driver had nothing to compare the permit with to ascertain whether it was a valid permit, the signs did not say that photocopies are not allowed or that it must have an holographic symbol. Further to this the claimant did not have a copy of any letters sent to the home owners telling them the same facts.

    He dismissed the claim awarding costs to the defendant

    Important points here

    Do not pay if you are parked lawfully i.e. Not parking to go shopping, to go to station etc.
    Read the signs, if it says you need a permit, get one, much less stressful
    If you feel you can fight it, ignore the threats, it's not a debt it's an invoice, you will not get a CCJ, you only get one if you lose and the court awards the claimant costs and you don't pay within 14 days

    Write to court outlying your defence, look at other forums regarding skeleton defence etc.

    If you are in the right then fight, they a crooks and are only out to make money any way they can

    Thank you

    Peter
    • trisontana
    • By trisontana 6th Dec 17, 8:56 AM
    • 8,948 Posts
    • 13,687 Thanks
    trisontana
    Could I correct one small point? When you use the word "lawfully" you are implying that no law of the land has been broken. In fact, no statute law applies to private parking matters. Just the silly made-up PPC rules.
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
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