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    • abrin2017
    • By abrin2017 20th Nov 17, 5:39 PM
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    abrin2017
    Redundancy vs Settlement Agreement
    • #1
    • 20th Nov 17, 5:39 PM
    Redundancy vs Settlement Agreement 20th Nov 17 at 5:39 PM
    Brief history:


    I was signed off work with stress at work, asked if it was possible for me to return to work prior to the end of fit note. Employer agreed to hold a return to work interview. On visiting the office I noticed that my desk had largely been cleared which set alarm bells ringing. During interview I was told that my position had been transferred to another office in a different location and my duties would not be returning to me. I asked if redundancy was on the table to be told yes it possibly is, we'll be in touch. Went into work for a second meeting where I was offered 2days a week doing menial tasks as a temporary "see how it goes" situation. Alternatively I could opt for redundancy. After some thought I advised the employer that I would accept redundancy.


    Nothing had been put into writing at this point, everything was verbal.


    On the 23rd September I attended the office again to be presented with a settlement agreement, unsure of what one was I took it away for perusal and sought legal advice. Solicitor informed me that the agreement offered was completely unacceptable, there was no mention of monies owing etc etc.


    A revised settlement agreement was received which I still did not find acceptable, then a third one was received which again I do not find acceptable - number of reasons, monies owing not calculated correctly being the main.


    I informed the employer that I would not be signing and asked where we go from here.


    They are adamant that a settlement agreement is part of redundancy but in my view the two are separate issues.


    Settlement agreement is a clean break, giving up rights to any future action
    Redundancy gives the financial benefit but retains rights


    Speaking with ACAS they advised that a settlement agreement is usually more financially favourable than redundancy as it offers the employer peace of mind that no future action will follow.


    When I mention this to my employer, they told me that that would be seen as bribery and would play no part.


    Tonight, I have again asked my employer where we go should I refuse to sign the settlement agreement. His answer was that the settlement agreement is part of the redundancy process.


    I know I am under no obligation to sign the agreement and at present it only offers the same as redundancy would, but I would be signing away my rights.


    I have been employed for 23 years


    Any advice appreciated
Page 1
    • marlot
    • By marlot 20th Nov 17, 6:30 PM
    • 3,134 Posts
    • 2,275 Thanks
    marlot
    • #2
    • 20th Nov 17, 6:30 PM
    • #2
    • 20th Nov 17, 6:30 PM
    Unless the offer is higher than statutory redundancy, you shouldn't sign.

    The whole point of a settlement agreement is that they are buying out your rights.

    You're right in your position. Are you still being paid?
    • abrin2017
    • By abrin2017 20th Nov 17, 6:53 PM
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    abrin2017
    • #3
    • 20th Nov 17, 6:53 PM
    • #3
    • 20th Nov 17, 6:53 PM
    Yes, I am still being paid and have been since August when all of this started


    One other thing, they have dated the settlement agreement 23rd September - is this correct as I haven't yet agreed to terms (and this will have an effect on my 12weeks notice period) ?
    • Masomnia
    • By Masomnia 20th Nov 17, 7:52 PM
    • 17,118 Posts
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    Masomnia
    • #4
    • 20th Nov 17, 7:52 PM
    • #4
    • 20th Nov 17, 7:52 PM
    They're clueless.

    Why would you sign away your rights for no gain?!
    “I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled.” - P.G. Wodehouse
    • IanSt
    • By IanSt 21st Nov 17, 9:31 AM
    • 149 Posts
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    IanSt
    • #5
    • 21st Nov 17, 9:31 AM
    • #5
    • 21st Nov 17, 9:31 AM
    Definitely do not sign any Settlement Agreement unless you get some additional compensation for it and they put on a date that you are happy with.

    I don't know where your employer gets their information, but they are wrong. It might be a part of their normal preferred route, but you do not have to sign it.

    It might be an idea to print out some of the information from the web and show them e.g. http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4395 which says that it is voluntary.
    • abrin2017
    • By abrin2017 21st Nov 17, 1:16 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    abrin2017
    • #6
    • 21st Nov 17, 1:16 PM
    • #6
    • 21st Nov 17, 1:16 PM
    I have given them information, advised that I have spoke with my union, ACAS and citizens advice.


    Because one of the people dealing with this (financial controller) used to work in a solicitors office he seems to think this qualifies him. The other one (MD) is basing his knowledge on his own redundancy from a former employer a number of years ago.


    Both have only been in their current roles for a few months
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 21st Nov 17, 1:44 PM
    • 30,773 Posts
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    getmore4less
    • #7
    • 21st Nov 17, 1:44 PM
    • #7
    • 21st Nov 17, 1:44 PM
    when is your next birthday?
    if 42 or more you clock another 1/2 weeks statutory redundancy(unless already 62)

    if close enough(with the full 12 weeks notice) might be worth dragging it out a bit.

    Is the redundancy offer statutory or more(taking the cap into account)
    • abrin2017
    • By abrin2017 21st Nov 17, 2:44 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    abrin2017
    • #8
    • 21st Nov 17, 2:44 PM
    • #8
    • 21st Nov 17, 2:44 PM
    I'm 40 so I doubt I'll be able to drag it out that long, however, I have 23 years of service which would become 24 on 12th December.


    If it drags on to that point would I be entitled to that extra years redundancy ?
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 21st Nov 17, 5:29 PM
    • 30,773 Posts
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    getmore4less
    • #9
    • 21st Nov 17, 5:29 PM
    • #9
    • 21st Nov 17, 5:29 PM
    20 years working backwards, I think one is only 1/2 year so clock upto 1 at birthday

    Worth checking.
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 6th Dec 17, 11:40 AM
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    gadgetmind
    As part of a settlement agreement you *must* have independent legal advice and your employer *must* pay for it. It's not valid unless you have advice so do what your lawyer says is best. Do not sign until told by lawyer that it's the right thing to do.
    I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.

    Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
    • Ozzuk
    • By Ozzuk 6th Dec 17, 3:05 PM
    • 1,176 Posts
    • 1,723 Thanks
    Ozzuk
    As part of a settlement agreement you *must* have independent legal advice and your employer *must* pay for it. It's not valid unless you have advice so do what your lawyer says is best. Do not sign until told by lawyer that it's the right thing to do.
    Originally posted by gadgetmind
    *must* is very strong - can you back that claim up?

    My experience is an employer should contribute towards the costs. They do not have to pay all the costs - for instance, if you didn't want just basic advice and wanted to take it further, the employer doesn't have to pay for it all.

    For a settlement agreement to be binding then the employee has to have taken legal advice, so you're right on that point. I just don't want the OP thinking they can rack up huge legal bills which will all be covered.

    To add, one company I know of caps it at £250.
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 6th Dec 17, 3:08 PM
    • 10,652 Posts
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    gadgetmind
    OK, I retract the second "must" but stick by the first, apologies.
    I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.

    Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 6th Dec 17, 3:19 PM
    • 30,773 Posts
    • 18,381 Thanks
    getmore4less
    NO need for a second thread....

    what's the problem with the holidays?
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