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  • FIRST POST
    • Nadsbmw
    • By Nadsbmw 17th Nov 17, 1:04 PM
    • 26Posts
    • 6Thanks
    Nadsbmw
    ACE security NTK
    • #1
    • 17th Nov 17, 1:04 PM
    ACE security NTK 17th Nov 17 at 1:04 PM
    Hi having successfully appealed a previous ticket I know that perseverance and use of templates and is the way to go.
    I'm a bit nervous however about a ticket received form ACE that I'm helping my hubby to appeal.
    They are IPC members and as advised we have waited for the NTK to arrive, the next stage is to use the template on the forum to respond.
    From reading previous threads I am aware that they usually come back refusing to engage with the letter of response because it is clearly from a template and Gladstones / court is the next step.

    The ticket was issued when leaving the car in an estate for literally 4 minutes while running the kids into school. As strictly speaking the car shouldn't have been parked there i.e we are not residents or were not visiting residents I'm struggling to find what the grounds of defence would be.
    Shall we just crack on regardless hoping that Gladstone pull out at the court hearing stage ?
    or are we likely to lose if it goes to court as the car shouldn't have been parked there. Rapidly losing confidence and fail to see how judge will find in our favour.Thanks
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 17th Nov 17, 2:46 PM
    • 16,644 Posts
    • 26,018 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 17th Nov 17, 2:46 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Nov 17, 2:46 PM
    It!!!8217;s impossible to give the answers you want to your questions. Sometimes Gladstones withdraw, sometimes they don!!!8217;t. Sometimes people lose in court, sometimes they don!!!8217;t.

    You have to decide if you want to deal with this - the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 will guide you through the initial stages, then post #2 will take you from the initial Letter Before Claim right through to the court hearing, and there!!!8217;s advice here on preparing your defence and associated paperwork.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 17th Nov 17, 2:54 PM
    • 17,320 Posts
    • 21,707 Thanks
    Redx
    • #3
    • 17th Nov 17, 2:54 PM
    • #3
    • 17th Nov 17, 2:54 PM
    defence points are likely to include the following

    NO LANDOWNER CONTRACT
    NO CONTRACT TO PARK (so its trespassing)
    FORBIDDING SIGNAGE (so its trespassing)
    only the landowner can issue a trespass notice
    GRACE PERIODS (typically 5 to 10 minutes to comply or leave)
    any IPC CoP failures (including signage , grace periods etc)
    POFA2012 failures
    any NTK errors
    not proving the keeper was the driver

    just read other recent 2017 defences to see what is used
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Nadsbmw
    • By Nadsbmw 19th Nov 17, 3:25 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Nadsbmw
    • #4
    • 19th Nov 17, 3:25 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Nov 17, 3:25 PM
    Thanks Redx very helpful as wanted to know if there were other / standard points of defence.
    • Nadsbmw
    • By Nadsbmw 29th Nov 17, 11:32 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Nadsbmw
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 11:32 AM
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 11:32 AM
    Have had a reply from Ace re the ticket and would like some help with my further defence.
    The main things are their reference to using a template should it matter whether it was a template or not ? secondly they mention that the "warden" was sitting in the car and watching people come and go.. i believe i read somewhere that this isn't allowed.

    I copied the response below , please help me to respond

    Thank you for your letter that we believe you have obtained as a template from the internet. After reading the contents of your letter it is clear that you are not appealing this Charge Notice. In regards to your request for information please see below;



    1. As you are not a resident you are not entitled to any information regarding the landowner or our contract unless this matter reaches court.

    2. The driver was in breach of the contract for parking because the vehicle was not displaying a valid permit prominently.

    3. All photographs taken of the vehicle are available at www.acepay.co.uk. You will need to enter the Charge Notice number and Vehicle Registration.

    4. In regards to point 6, the vehicle was not given an observation time because our driver witnessed the driver collect their child from a school on the estate and therefore the driver had absolutely no right to be on site, and therefore did not require to be given any form of time frame. They were there to purposely park against the terms and conditions for parking, which is not permitted.


    Please note that as you are refusing to identify the driver of the vehicle under Schedule 4 Section 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 as the Registered Keeper you will remain liable for this Charge Notice.

    In response to your reference to Section 10 of the Data Protection Act, you have stated you wish us to stop processing your data. However, in order for this request to be properly considered you must state why it is causing you substantial damage or distress, as well as what you require in order for us to stop this from happening. At present it is necessary for us to process your data because it is used in relation to a contract, meaning you have no right to object.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 29th Nov 17, 12:15 PM
    • 16,644 Posts
    • 26,018 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 12:15 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 12:15 PM
    2. The driver was in breach of the contract for parking because the vehicle was not displaying a valid permit prominently.
    If you were not allowed to park there, then there is no !!!8216;contract for parking!!!8217;!

    4. In regards to point 6, the vehicle was not given an observation time because our driver witnessed the driver collect their child from a school on the estate and therefore the driver had absolutely no right to be on site, and therefore did not require to be given any form of time frame. They were there to purposely park against the terms and conditions for parking, which is not permitted.
    A clear-cut act of !!!8216;trespass!!!8217; for which only the landowner can pursue and !!!8216;damages!!!8217; are limited to any actual damage caused by the act of trespass.

    Please note that as you are refusing to identify the driver of the vehicle under Schedule 4 Section 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 as the Registered Keeper you will remain liable for this Charge Notice.
    Only possible if they have issued a fully compliant (with PoFA) NtK. Have they?

    Responding to them is futile; they will not cancel this. My comments above are intended more as reminders to you should a LBC or court papers be issued.

    You are not !!!8216;defending!!!8217; this unless or until court papers are served. The forum can help if you receive any.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Nadsbmw
    • By Nadsbmw 30th Jan 18, 1:39 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Nadsbmw
    • #7
    • 30th Jan 18, 1:39 PM
    • #7
    • 30th Jan 18, 1:39 PM
    I am now in receipt of letter before claim from Gladstones.
    My intention is to use the template which makes reference to the recent changes to pre action protocol October 2017.
    Gladstones seem to be upping their game as one of the recent changes was the information and reply sheet and their letter makes reference to this being available on their website.

    As I was parked incorrectly and have no defence in terms of permits / residence etc I am considering if this is a lost cause. If they call my bluff and takes this to court I don't really have a defence accept that no grace period was given the car was parked for approximately 6 minutes.
    I was hoping to rely on mistakes that Gladstones have made in issuing paperwork etc !

    Is it game up ?
    • abeltasman
    • By abeltasman 30th Jan 18, 1:58 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    abeltasman
    • #8
    • 30th Jan 18, 1:58 PM
    • #8
    • 30th Jan 18, 1:58 PM
    I think you should fight this.

    Ace Security Services have a big problem with their signs in that they do not offer any contract, particularly as they only (or mostly) handle residential estates. You had no means of obtaining a valid permit to park and therefore could not comply with the terms that are described.

    Pace V Lengyel is helpful. Check out the Parking Prankster's case law page for the full transcript.

    You should also take a look at their signage on the site in question and whether it fully complies with the IPC Code of Practice (Schedule E), since it's unlikely that it does.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 30th Jan 18, 11:47 PM
    • 53,964 Posts
    • 67,647 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 30th Jan 18, 11:47 PM
    • #9
    • 30th Jan 18, 11:47 PM
    Gladstones seem to be upping their game
    Not that we'e noticed, but yes they are having to pay lip service to the PAP.

    have no defence in terms of permits / residence etc I am considering if this is a lost cause. If they call my bluff and takes this to court I don't really have a defence accept that no grace period was given the car was parked for approximately 6 minutes.
    That's a huge point of defence - no grace period was allowed to read the signs, you'd literally just arrived. That's 'predatory ticketing' and 'no grace period' = two breaches of the IPC CoP.

    And Gladstones have a habit of mucking up their cases!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 30th Jan 18, 11:51 PM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,278 Thanks
    pappa golf
    I am now in receipt of letter before claim from Gladstones.
    My intention is to use the template which makes reference to the recent changes to pre action protocol October 2017.
    Gladstones seem to be upping their game as one of the recent changes was the information and reply sheet and their letter makes reference to this being available on their website.

    As I was parked incorrectly and have no defence in terms of permits / residence etc I am considering if this is a lost cause. If they call my bluff and takes this to court I don't really have a defence accept that no grace period was given the car was parked for approximately 6 minutes.
    I was hoping to rely on mistakes that Gladstones have made in issuing paperwork etc !

    Is it game up ?
    Originally posted by Nadsbmw
    that is NOT acceptable it should have been POSTED to you
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
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