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  • FIRST POST
    • azz007
    • By azz007 16th Nov 17, 6:39 PM
    • 66Posts
    • 5Thanks
    azz007
    Minster baywatch pcn
    • #1
    • 16th Nov 17, 6:39 PM
    Minster baywatch pcn 16th Nov 17 at 6:39 PM
    2 postal PCN from Minster Baywatch as being parked on a Mecca Bingo Car park on two occasions 24th Oct and 02 Nov 2017.

    these are monitored now with ANPR cameras .

    Now as keeper have 2 PCN and wrote a Without Prejudice Letter to hoefuly work to bring the matter to a close if they accecpt. as keeper will sent a letter via post with a cheque.


    This is what i have so far, i think maybe i should remove point 2, as ive read this no longer works??
    any thoughts , ammendants or things to add will be appreciated. see below

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    17/11/2017
    Without Prejudice

    Dear Sirs,

    I write further to your recent correspondences as the Keeper relating to the Parking Charges issued by yourselves. (See attached).
    Parking Charge Number 1: 12345
    Parking Charge Number 2: 12345

    I am challenging your parking charge dated 24/10/2017 & 02/11/2017) on the following grounds:
    1.

    2. The large sum demanded amounts to a penalty and/or is not an accurate reflection of any loss suffered so it is not a reasonable charge. Your monetary claim is disproportionate, punitive and unjustifiable in total. It may also be an unfair term and therefore in breach of Schedule 2 of the Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.
    Please provide a breakdown of how your demanded charge is calculated so that I can consider further whether it amounts to a penalty as the charge that you are levying is punitive and therefore void against me. The charge of £100 is arbitrary and in no way proportionate to any alleged breach of contract. Nor does it even equate to local council charges.
    3. You were using an ANPR camera system but this has evidently not been advertised on the signage with prominence and not seen by the driver.
    4. Having examined your PCN I believe it is non-compliant demand for payment. Your notice in the text refers to being a PCN. This term is attributed to a penalty charge notice issued by a local authority. It is therefore easily confused with a statutory penalty charge notice. The BPA is clear in its rules that such abbreviations and terms are not permissible.

    As a gesture of goodwill and to bring the matter to a swift and amicable conclusion, I am offering you on a without prejudice basis only, the sum of £10.00 for both alleged breaches in full and final settlement of all claims you have against the Keeper. This should enable you to cover the costs of obtaining the vehicle details and your alleged loss of income you may have suffered arising from the alleged contract. I should point out that if you bank or negotiate this cheque this will be taken as your acceptance of the offer which cannot be retracted under any circumstance.

    If you choose to reject my offer to settle this matter and wish to pursue this matter through the courts then I shall bring to the Court’s attention this letter.

    Yours Faithfully,

    PRINT NAME

    any feedback appreciated, i dont really want to ignore this one as ive already ignored another one i got from ECP in August and at the 2nd DRP+ LETTER stage.
    Last edited by azz007; 17-11-2017 at 11:02 AM.
Page 3
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 29th Nov 17, 11:41 AM
    • 15,886 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    I thought it was first submitting the appeal , then POPLA and the PPC do the stuff behind the scene/review and then i get the decision/response from POPLA about if it was successful or unsuccessful

    if unsuccessful - i get it with their evidence pack.etc and take it from there,
    Originally posted by azz007
    Nope. Read my advice.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 29th Nov 17, 11:45 AM
    • 1,144 Posts
    • 1,173 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    No, you get a chance to rebut before the decision. As it states in the newbies thread
    • azz007
    • By azz007 29th Nov 17, 11:52 AM
    • 66 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    azz007
    Nope. Read my advice.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    So going back to my OP, as keeper received 2 PCNS , and one of the appeals on MINSTER website wasn't working for the one issued 24/10/17 (said i had 29 days to respond starting from 2 working days after issue date). Instead so i emailed them the appeal with the blue template on the 22nd Nov. Got the auto response saying they will review and get back to me 3 working days.

    now yesterday i revived the 2nd letter ,issued 22/11/17 for the one i emailed appeal, demanding £155(additional £55). They have discarded my emailed appeal by looks if it or not noticed it, and i have not received a response yet or any POPLA code for it. Yet thier system has just generated the robotic letter to be sent out.

    What should i do?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 29th Nov 17, 11:55 AM
    • 15,886 Posts
    • 24,632 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    What should i do?
    Complain to the BPA and copy the complaint to the DVLA. Email addresses in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • azz007
    • By azz007 29th Nov 17, 12:12 PM
    • 66 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    azz007
    Complain to the BPA and copy the complaint to the DVLA. Email addresses in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas

    should i email steve direct at steve.c@britishparking.co.uk & CC dvla
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 29th Nov 17, 12:18 PM
    • 15,886 Posts
    • 24,632 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    should i email steve direct at steve.c@britishparking.co.uk & CC dvla
    Originally posted by azz007
    Why not, if that is the address in the sticky?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • azz007
    • By azz007 29th Nov 17, 12:48 PM
    • 66 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    azz007
    Why not, if that is the address in the sticky?
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Hows this

    To:steve.c@britishparking.co.uk
    CC:ccrt@dvla.gsi.gov.uk


    Dear Sirs,

    MINSTER BAYWATCH PCN ######. Issued Date 24/10/207.

    I appealed the above PCN as the Vehicle Keeper directly within 29 days as stated to Minster Baywatch Email address : (appeals@minsterbaywatch.co.uk) and received the automatic response (see at footer of this email) that this would get reviewed in 3 working days. However, I haven’t had any rejection of the appeal nor a POPLA code.

    Instead they have sent out another letter demanding payment of £155(additional £55) to be paid by 06/12/17 or further action will be taken.


    As I understand it, the British Parking Association has a Code of Practice which clearly states:

    the following practices may be considered as Code breaches and must not be continued:
    • Asking the motorist to enter into additional correspondence to obtain a POPLA code
    • Failing to include a correct and/or valid POPLA Code within the Rejection correspondence
    • Issuing a POPLA Code with a date identifier which is significantly different from the date of rejection
    • Appearing to indicate that the issue of a POPLA Code is conditional on driver details being supplied “
    The breach of this code is a breach of the KADOE (Keeper of a Vehicle at the Date of an Event using an Electronic Service) contract.

    This complaint is a complaint about a breach of the KADOE contract, this is in the DVLA’s remit and as such it must be dealt with by DVLA and not by a third party.


    This matter has been escalated to the CCR team because I have no confidence in the data release team to take such a complaint seriously as it's in the public domain that they have dismissed these issues far too many times recently without so much as even supplying a copy of the DVLA complaints procedure leaflet.

    If my complaint is not resolved properly my intention is to involve my MP and to refer the issue to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman.


    To summarise, my complaint is specifically about Minster Baywatch breaching the KADOE contract. I know it is not your responsibility to monitor parking companies and nor am I asking you to do so. Rather, I am informing the DVLA of a breach of the KADOE contract to which the DVLA is a party, and I would like to know what action the DVLA is going take.

    So either this PCN gets cancelled or I am to be issued with a POPLA code.


    Yours faithfully
    Last edited by azz007; 29-11-2017 at 12:51 PM.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 29th Nov 17, 1:09 PM
    • 15,886 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    I appealed the above PCN as the Vehicle Keeper directly within 29 days as stated to Minster Baywatch Email address :
    Does it state 29 days in their NtK? It’s normally 28. Check it carefully, otherwise the BPA might argue you’ve appealed outside the time limit - don’t expose yourself to being a hostage to fortune.

    Otherwise it all looks ok.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • azz007
    • By azz007 29th Nov 17, 2:00 PM
    • 66 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    azz007
    Does it state 29 days in their NtK? It’s normally 28. Check it carefully, otherwise the BPA might argue you’ve appealed outside the time limit - don’t expose yourself to being a hostage to fortune.

    Otherwise it all looks ok.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas

    it does say on the letter i have 29 days to respond or pay in full

    see letter here . i dont have the back side of letter to hand,

    hxxps://www.dropbox.com/sh/0vgcayxy572un3q/AAAhq1nOh5dYpp7tgT0OJ5pqa?dl=0


    but i suspect you maybe right about appealing within 28 days starting from issue date 24/10. So i might have missed the window by 1 day.

    Il jsut take the 29 days part out of the email and send it. would that be ok and see what happens?
    Last edited by azz007; 29-11-2017 at 2:14 PM.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 29th Nov 17, 3:39 PM
    • 15,886 Posts
    • 24,632 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Il jsut take the 29 days part out of the email and send it. would that be ok and see what happens?
    If it’s ok with you, then go with it and just see what happens.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • azz007
    • By azz007 29th Nov 17, 4:35 PM
    • 66 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    azz007
    If it’s ok with you, then go with it and just see what happens.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Sent the email. got a reply in 5 minutes directly from Steve Clark, Head of Business operations that one of his managers will look into this for me .

    i dont think his direct email in in the NEWBIES thread, maybe worth adding
    steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

    Just a waiting game now,
    Last edited by azz007; 29-11-2017 at 4:44 PM.
    • azz007
    • By azz007 5th Dec 17, 9:39 AM
    • 66 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    azz007
    So Minster have got back to me and rejected the appeal and have given a POPLA code, so looks like im straight onto POPLA.

    am i ok using the EXACT same POPLA appeal as my 1st one? It shouldnt matter should it. they both were issued at the same location.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 5th Dec 17, 11:13 AM
    • 16,895 Posts
    • 20,996 Thanks
    Redx
    definitely

    adapt it where necessary , but if it covers all the point required then use it as your own template, if you had another 10 then use it ten times more too

    there is no reason to be starting again, that would be foolish and unnecessary
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
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