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  • FIRST POST
    • milliem21
    • By milliem21 16th Nov 17, 10:42 AM
    • 4Posts
    • 0Thanks
    milliem21
    Pcn ias appeal draft - advice needed
    • #1
    • 16th Nov 17, 10:42 AM
    Pcn ias appeal draft - advice needed 16th Nov 17 at 10:42 AM
    I have 2 PCNS From ES Parking Enforcement LTD.
    Both for the ticket being the wrong way up on the dashboard. I am writing an appeal to the IAS. I have started a draft and would be really appreciative if anyone could give me their advice/opinion on what else I should include? I have already stupidly admitted I was the driver in a panic when I first got the PCNS.
    I know some say it is not worth appealing to IAS but I figured it was worth to give it a go and my parents are really pushing me to appeal it. I am not a expert at all and have very little knowledge on appealing/parking tickets so please understand this with my draft...

    To whom it may concern:

    I am the registered keeper of vehicle YG60 YVM.

    I have responded to the PCN from ES Parking LTD in which it was 'declined' on the 30/10/2017. I was informed to further contact the IAS.

    I would like to appeal this notice on the following points:
    1) Valid pay and display ticket purchased
    2) No genuine pre-estimate of loss

    Enclosed is a copy of the pay and display ticket that I purchased and displayed for inspection. It can clearly be seen that I paid the appropriate fee and that my ticket was valid when the officer inspected my vehicle.

    On the photos that you have provided on the website it can clearly be seen that the back of my pay and display ticket shows a serial number - XXXXXX. If you check this number against the copy of the pay and display ticket enclosed you will see that it clearly matches. This is conclusive proof that my ticket was on display and valid at the time of inspection.

    2) No genuine pre-estimate of loss

    The DfT Guidance and the BPA Code of Practice require that a parking charge for an alleged breach must be an estimate of losses flowing from the incident. ES Parking Enforcement LTD cannot change this requirement so they have no option but to provide their genuine pre-estimate of loss for this charge (GEPOL), not a subsequently penned 'commercial justification' statement they may have devised afterwards (since this would not be a pre-estimate):

    The British Parking Association Code of Practice uses the word 'MUST' in outlining genuine pre-estimate of loss:

    "19.5 If the parking charge that the driver is being asked to pay is for a breach of contract or act of trespass, this charge must be based on the GEPOL that you suffer.''

    ES Parking Enforcement LTD state that the charge is for not complying with the conditions set out, so the operator must prove that the charge is a GEPOL. The landowner/occupier (not their agent) can only pursue liquidated damages directly flowing from the parking event. However, as a full day ticket was purchased and this is addressed in point 1 it is clear that no profit loss has been made to the company.

    Therefore I request that the appeal is accepted



    Also unsure whether to include a point around the flimsy ticket?? something like ..
    The tickets which were provided provide difficulty in meeting the conditions set out due to the flimsy nature and lack of adhesive to ensure the ticket is kept upright. Therefore providing a issue with the company and not the driver.
Page 1
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 16th Nov 17, 11:00 AM
    • 1,185 Posts
    • 1,221 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #2
    • 16th Nov 17, 11:00 AM
    • #2
    • 16th Nov 17, 11:00 AM
    EVERYONE says to not appeal to the IAS. It is a complete sham of an appeal. Newbies section if you really wish to put together an appeal to the IAS, but you will come out with a rejection and may just make them think you'll roll over.
    • milliem21
    • By milliem21 1st Dec 17, 11:12 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    milliem21
    • #3
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:12 AM
    • #3
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:12 AM
    Thanks but I sent the draft in which can be seen on my original thread and the appeal was allowed so I don't think everyone should be advised against!
    • alanjuk
    • By alanjuk 1st Dec 17, 11:27 AM
    • 341 Posts
    • 127 Thanks
    alanjuk
    • #4
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:27 AM
    • #4
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:27 AM
    If that is your real reg number in your post, you'd be advised to edit your post to remove it
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 1st Dec 17, 11:34 AM
    • 747 Posts
    • 1,388 Thanks
    Johnersh
    • #5
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:34 AM
    • #5
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:34 AM
    IAS appeal successful for both tickets?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 1st Dec 17, 12:57 PM
    • 4,774 Posts
    • 3,127 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #6
    • 1st Dec 17, 12:57 PM
    • #6
    • 1st Dec 17, 12:57 PM
    Thanks but I sent the draft in which can be seen on my original thread and the appeal was allowed so I don't think everyone should be advised against!
    Originally posted by milliem21
    Why did you post the draft here?
    It clearly wasn't for advice/opinion as you stated.

    Eighteen minutes after posting your draft here you got a response suggesting to appeal was futile.

    You totally ignored that opinion, without even an acknowledgement, and sent your appeal.

    What a waste of effort.

    Please post up your appeal response.
    Seeing a successful IAS appeal response is a rarity.
    .
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 1st Dec 17, 1:25 PM
    • 3,588 Posts
    • 3,634 Thanks
    DoaM
    • #7
    • 1st Dec 17, 1:25 PM
    • #7
    • 1st Dec 17, 1:25 PM
    OP's previous thread.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5738138
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 1st Dec 17, 5:04 PM
    • 15,945 Posts
    • 24,737 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #8
    • 1st Dec 17, 5:04 PM
    • #8
    • 1st Dec 17, 5:04 PM
    Thanks but I sent the draft in which can be seen on my original thread and the appeal was allowed so I don't think everyone should be advised against!
    Originally posted by milliem21
    I’m struggling to find this credible, but as always, happy to be proved wrong.

    A few things don’t add up.

    1. A two-point appeal with little ‘weight’.

    2. Appeal point #2:
    2) No genuine pre-estimate of loss
    Has been a ‘dead in the water’ appeal point since Beavis two years ago, and even before Beavis, the IAS always dismissed it. Never seen one won on no GPEOL.

    3. Quoting from the BPA Code of Practice, which has no relevance or regulatory imperative on ESPEL as IPC members, to support the appeal.
    The DfT Guidance and the BPA Code of Practice require that a parking charge for an alleged breach must be an estimate of losses flowing from the incident. ES Parking Enforcement LTD cannot change this requirement so they have no option but to provide their genuine pre-estimate of loss for this charge (GEPOL), not a subsequently penned 'commercial justification' statement they may have devised afterwards (since this would not be a pre-estimate):

    The British Parking Association Code of Practice uses the word 'MUST' in outlining genuine pre-estimate of loss:

    "19.5 If the parking charge that the driver is being asked to pay is for a breach of contract or act of trespass, this charge must be based on the GEPOL that you suffer.''
    @OP - please amaze me and show us the appeal you submitted to the IAS as well as a transcript of the IAS assessor’s determination.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • milliem21
    • By milliem21 2nd Dec 17, 10:52 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    milliem21
    • #9
    • 2nd Dec 17, 10:52 AM
    • #9
    • 2nd Dec 17, 10:52 AM
    Iím sorry but why was it a bad decision to send it in if my appeals have been allowed? Struggling to see why Iíve received bad such negative response rather unessecary 🙄
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 2nd Dec 17, 11:40 AM
    • 15,945 Posts
    • 24,737 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Iím sorry but why was it a bad decision to send it in if my appeals have been allowed? Struggling to see why Iíve received bad such negative response rather unessecary 🙄
    Originally posted by milliem21
    Letís see the appeal and the decision please. You seem to be a bit shy in showing it.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
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