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  • FIRST POST
    • Zither
    • By Zither 11th Nov 17, 2:34 PM
    • 291Posts
    • 38Thanks
    Zither
    Why is my house cold?
    • #1
    • 11th Nov 17, 2:34 PM
    Why is my house cold? 11th Nov 17 at 2:34 PM
    Hi All,

    I'm sure this topic has been covered once or twice on MSE before but didn't want to drag up old threads

    So yeah... my house is cold. I live in a north facing house so I wouldn't expect it to be roasting but it's still a little bit cold for my liking.

    The house has:
    -Double glazing
    -Cavity Wall Insulation
    -Loft insulation
    -Gas Central Heating
    -A living flame gas fire (switched off, and I've temporarily bocked
    the little hole up the flue ).

    I've recently:
    re-gasketed the front/back doors to reduce drafts coming in and the windows are pretty well sealed too.

    The house isn't draft proof but there are no obvious holes/drafts. The hallway/stairs area is the coldest part of the house.

    So my question is -

    How do I find out why my house is still cold? What should I look for next and how do I identify it?

    Thanks very much,

    Z
Page 6
    • DaftyDuck
    • By DaftyDuck 18th Nov 17, 10:30 AM
    • 3,864 Posts
    • 7,871 Thanks
    DaftyDuck
    Dave, at least in another thread the poster you quote is honest enough to admit he owns a company that.... You can guess the rest
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 18th Nov 17, 10:41 AM
    • 23,677 Posts
    • 89,633 Thanks
    Davesnave
    Dave, at least in another thread the poster you quote is honest enough to admit he owns a company that.... You can guess the rest
    Originally posted by DaftyDuck
    Shhhhh! I was being very polite and acting all innocent-like.
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • Archergirl
    • By Archergirl 18th Nov 17, 11:05 AM
    • 1,088 Posts
    • 588 Thanks
    Archergirl
    Brr... I am a bit chilly this morning, I think I will put the heating on boost for a couple of hours as it's not due on till 3pm,(ok when I am out but it's Saturday, I am cold so on it goes) That's what I do
    • Archergirl
    • By Archergirl 18th Nov 17, 1:55 PM
    • 1,088 Posts
    • 588 Thanks
    Archergirl
    Warm enough now (2.pm) so will put it back onto schedule and it will go off and come back on at 3 pm.
    • Shroppey
    • By Shroppey 18th Nov 17, 7:24 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Shroppey
    Have you a link to a reputable source for this info? i.e. one that isn't from an organisation standing to benefit from promulgating the idea?

    I could understand the concept if the CWI had become saturated with water, but then the OP would surely have an indication of that and be worrying about damp rather than a lack of warmth.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    Will the BRE (Building Research Establishment) do as reputable source?

    Unfortunately, I can't post a link but Googling BRE "The Importance of Thermal Bridging" should produce the required information.

    Although you would expect mould, this is not always the case.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 19th Nov 17, 12:44 AM
    • 23,677 Posts
    • 89,633 Thanks
    Davesnave
    Will the BRE (Building Research Establishment) do as reputable source?

    Unfortunately, I can't post a link but Googling BRE "The Importance of Thermal Bridging" should produce the required information.

    Although you would expect mould, this is not always the case.
    Originally posted by Shroppey
    I looked at the short article, but saw nothing specifically mentioning CWI.

    The CWI in my property, which I would never have chosen myself in this location, is rather hit and miss in its distribution. However, I'm not suffering the same problem as the OP.

    I do agree that if I had a problem with rapid heat loss, thermal imaging would be the way to go.
    'A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they'll never sit in.'
    • Zither
    • By Zither 28th Nov 17, 10:08 PM
    • 291 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    Zither
    Hello again all. Thanks v much for all replies

    So after living with the cold for a while I just think my radiators either arent putting enough heat out or my boiler isn’t powerful enough.

    To be honest I think my boiler is powerful enough (and a handyman who used to service boilers agreed) but all the radiators aren’t putting out as much heat as they could (eg they’re not all boiling to touch). I’ve tried rebalancing the radiators where I can and I’ve done a pretty good job but some keep just going cold.

    So I’m wondering if I should just get a new boiler (it’s about 15 years old) and whether Or whether I should see if a flush/magnaclean would work first? Eg is gunk floating around stopping some boilers heating up?

    15 years old for a boiler feels quite old but has boiler tech really advanced that much since 2002-ish in terms of heat output and efficiency??
    Last edited by Zither; 28-11-2017 at 10:15 PM.
    • onomatopoeia99
    • By onomatopoeia99 28th Nov 17, 11:16 PM
    • 3,605 Posts
    • 7,945 Thanks
    onomatopoeia99
    To be honest I think my boiler is powerful enough (and a handyman who used to service boilers agreed) but all the radiators arenít putting out as much heat as they could (eg theyíre not all boiling to touch). Iíve tried rebalancing the radiators where I can and Iíve done a pretty good job but some keep just going cold.
    Originally posted by Zither
    Do they go cold half an hour after the boiler goes off? If so, that's what happens. Stuff cools to ambient temperature. As I type this my heating has been off for an hour after being on for 6 (thermostatically controlled so it is "on" to keep the house at 19C, not the boiler running for 6h). My radiators are now cold.

    I read all through this thread and basically you need to run the heating longer. That's the fundamental problem with your house, you don't turn the heating on for long enough. If you don't like to run the heating because it costs money, you then need to decide if you want to spend money or be cold.

    Spending several years worth of heating costs on a new boiler to save a few quid a month on the gas bill doesn't seem the most money saving idea every though.
    INTP, nerd, libertarian and scifi geek.
    Home is where my books are.
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 28th Nov 17, 11:33 PM
    • 726 Posts
    • 587 Thanks
    Carrot007
    I normally go to work to stay warm! 😂
    Originally posted by Zither
    I was in work today rather than working from home. When I got in my smart meter told me I had used 93 pence so far that day.

    When I am working from home it would have been nearing £4.

    It costs me around £8 in petrol to go to work and back.

    Working from home makes more sense!

    Just a thought! Don't save pennies to waste pounds.
    • Loanranger
    • By Loanranger 29th Nov 17, 12:02 AM
    • 2,000 Posts
    • 5,196 Thanks
    Loanranger
    Zither, go down to the local charity shops and get yourself kitted out with some woolly socks and jumpers and maybe some scarves and gloves.
    Or, put your heating on for longer.
    Either way you will feel warmer.
    As a last resort, wear a woolly hat round the house.
    • Zither
    • By Zither 29th Nov 17, 6:47 AM
    • 291 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    Zither
    Do they go cold half an hour after the boiler goes off? If so, that's what happens. Stuff cools to ambient temperature. As I type this my heating has been off for an hour after being on for 6 (thermostatically controlled so it is "on" to keep the house at 19C, not the boiler running for 6h). My radiators are now cold.

    I read all through this thread and basically you need to run the heating longer. That's the fundamental problem with your house, you don't turn the heating on for long enough. If you don't like to run the heating because it costs money, you then need to decide if you want to spend money or be cold.

    Spending several years worth of heating costs on a new boiler to save a few quid a month on the gas bill doesn't seem the most money saving idea every though.
    Originally posted by onomatopoeia99
    Hiya,

    Thanks for taking the time to read - see your point. Yes the rads do cool down..but put it this way - had heating on for 3h last night. Temperature in Kitchen increased from 12c is to around 14c ish. I get that if I left the heating on for a long time the walls would radiate the heat back... but surely it would increase more than 2c over 3h??

    Get your point on boiler. I think I have a Baxi 105HE. ‘Apparently’ it’s 87% efficient (which I guess isn’t bad) but like you and the rest of the thread are encouraging me to put heating on for longer I wonder if I might as well just ‘get it sorted’ and enjoy a boiler that might heat up sooner, do it 5-10% more efficiently and probably be attractive to any subsequent buyer? Or disagree? Just asking the question really.
    Last edited by Zither; 29-11-2017 at 6:52 AM.
    • Zither
    • By Zither 29th Nov 17, 6:49 AM
    • 291 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    Zither
    Zither, go down to the local charity shops and get yourself kitted out with some woolly socks and jumpers and maybe some scarves and gloves.
    Or, put your heating on for longer.
    Either way you will feel warmer.
    As a last resort, wear a woolly hat round the house.
    Originally posted by Loanranger
    Haha yes. I might already do the scarf/woolly hat around the house
    • Zither
    • By Zither 29th Nov 17, 6:50 AM
    • 291 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    Zither
    I was in work today rather than working from home. When I got in my smart meter told me I had used 93 pence so far that day.

    When I am working from home it would have been nearing £4.

    It costs me around £8 in petrol to go to work and back.

    Working from home makes more sense!

    Just a thought! Don't save pennies to waste pounds.
    Originally posted by Carrot007
    Good point! 😉
    • onomatopoeia99
    • By onomatopoeia99 29th Nov 17, 8:25 AM
    • 3,605 Posts
    • 7,945 Thanks
    onomatopoeia99
    How fast the termperature rises in a given room depends on a lot of factors. Is the radiator the right size for the room, for example? If it's too small, then the room will take a long time to get hot. Is the boiler itself set to heat the water in the CH circuit as hot as it can be? Mine, which is a Vaillant has dial on the front to set the temperature of he water in the CH loop, turning that up from 60C to 70C makes a big difference. You have said there is insulation - 300mm in the loft is a good depth for the fibre roll stuff, do you have that much? My home is a bungalow so this is quite a big deal for me in keeping it warm, there is a lot of ceiling area.
    INTP, nerd, libertarian and scifi geek.
    Home is where my books are.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 29th Nov 17, 10:42 AM
    • 30,737 Posts
    • 18,367 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Boiler will be fine. if it is working.

    https://www.baxi.co.uk/-/media/websites/baxiuk/files/discontinued-products/combi-boilers/baxi-combi/baxi_combi_he_105_user_guide.pdf?la=en

    Start with the boiler temp and the indicator lights what temp is the water getting to when the heating is on?

    any fault lights on

    Once started check the pump is running.how long before the radiators start warming up?
    • Zither
    • By Zither 29th Nov 17, 6:38 PM
    • 291 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    Zither
    Boiler will be fine. if it is working.

    https://www.baxi.co.uk/-/media/websites/baxiuk/files/discontinued-products/combi-boilers/baxi-combi/baxi_combi_he_105_user_guide.pdf?la=en

    Start with the boiler temp and the indicator lights what temp is the water getting to when the heating is on?

    any fault lights on

    Once started check the pump is running.how long before the radiators start warming up?
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Thanks - yes boiler works... it just takes an age - 20+ mins - to heat all the rads up to a starter temp - like 2-3 cycles - and then a bit longer to get properly hot - hence why I wonder if the pipes are full of gunk? And even then some rads donít get truly hot.

    Iíve actually turned the heat dial on the boiler up to max now (80c)(snowing up north!) and the heating just doesnít really seem to make a dent...unless I leave it on for hours. No fault lights etc as far as I can see..
    • shortcrust
    • By shortcrust 29th Nov 17, 6:51 PM
    • 1,452 Posts
    • 1,909 Thanks
    shortcrust
    Thanks - yes boiler works... it just takes an age - 20+ mins - to heat all the rads up to a starter temp - like 2-3 cycles - and then a bit longer to get properly hot - hence why I wonder if the pipes are full of gunk? And even then some rads don’t get truly hot.

    I’ve actually turned the heat dial on the boiler up to max now (80c)(snowing up north!) and the heating just doesn’t really seem to make a dent...unless I leave it on for hours. No fault lights etc as far as I can see..
    Originally posted by Zither
    I also have a Baxi combi boiler turned to 80. My radiators are too hot to touch 10 mins after the heating comes on. I’ve got seven radiators over three floors.

    And I think your boiler is 30kw. Mine is 28.
    Last edited by shortcrust; 29-11-2017 at 6:55 PM.
    • Zither
    • By Zither 29th Nov 17, 7:02 PM
    • 291 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    Zither
    How fast the termperature rises in a given room depends on a lot of factors. Is the radiator the right size for the room, for example? If it's too small, then the room will take a long time to get hot. Is the boiler itself set to heat the water in the CH circuit as hot as it can be? Mine, which is a Vaillant has dial on the front to set the temperature of he water in the CH loop, turning that up from 60C to 70C makes a big difference. You have said there is insulation - 300mm in the loft is a good depth for the fibre roll stuff, do you have that much? My home is a bungalow so this is quite a big deal for me in keeping it warm, there is a lot of ceiling area.
    Originally posted by onomatopoeia99
    Honestly not sure on the insulation - I think it will be up to an older standard - like 150ml or so. The loft is also boarded out so has plywood on top of the insulation.


    Heating currently on 80 which is the max. Most the rads are single panels so I guess that means that they donít circulate the heat that Well as double panel rads with fins? The Kitchen rad is definitely too small but the rest stack up size wise.

    Haha it just feels like I should have quite a nice cozy house... but for some reason it isnít!
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 29th Nov 17, 8:48 PM
    • 30,737 Posts
    • 18,367 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Have a feel of the pipes in and out of the boiler

    is the return pipe warming up

    Check the pump, some have multiple speeds.

    20 mins to just start getting warm is too long
    • Heedtheadvice
    • By Heedtheadvice 30th Nov 17, 10:59 AM
    • 636 Posts
    • 316 Thanks
    Heedtheadvice
    I think at last you are getting down to the cause!!

    As already posted your rads should be hot in ten to fifteen minutes after switch on. Without that there is no significant heat being output to your rooms.

    So you now need to find the cause. Not unlimited to the following but a few simple steps of diagnosis may help pinpoint:

    Before starting check that you have a small header tank and that it has water in it and that the ball float valve is working (depress slightly and water should enter)....set the programmer to on, temperature control on boiler to high and turn up any thermostat (s). If separate controls select heat only and not hot water for now.

    1 boiler giving sufficient output. Seems ok by design (earlier post) so check the temperature of the output pipe. Should be too hot to touch so if you do not have a temperature meter feel how soon it rises to a too hot to touch temperature. That will be about 50 -60 degrees Celsius and should be there within a few minutes.
    2 circulation. Can you hear the pump running? (Assuming is pumped?). If you can get access to pipework further round the system the temperature should rise there too, a bit slower and maybe not quite as high (depending upon if heat is being dissipated but as you are not getting much heat output it should rise quite quickly and nearly as hot as the output from the boiler). That should confirm at least some circulation. If the pump feeds a hot water cylinder too and the water in it is cold then that will take some heat and slow things down. For house heating try to run it without hot water heating at the same time -note initial comment on control settings).
    3 if all that is working but a bit slow (say over five minutes take note of a previous post and if possible you can turn up the pump speed, for now.
    4 Do any rads get hot? If non it could be the heating valve that is a problem(not opening) or the electrical control to it. Presumption, you have one fitted!
    If previous steps are positive then it suggests that the rest of the system (boiler, circulation, water level) is fine. There is often a bypass route for the circulated hot water. The latter might be through a single radiator.
    5 for each radiator, check that the valve is open and that the flow control (often a screwdriver adjustable valve or possibly a settable temperature valve) is also fully open.
    6 if rad still cold entirely or in part try bleeding one to let out gasses that should be replaced by hot water. Use a cloth to catch drips and partially open the bleed valve with a bleeding key sufficient to let the 'air' out but do not fully unscrew! Close as soon as water appears. If air comes out then that will be replaced by hot water and the rad should heat. Repeat for all rads.

    Rads cold or cooler at the top indicate a gas build up, cooler at the bottom indicate a build up of gunge!

    If all goes well you ought to have heat. If not then further investigation will be necessary.
    Last edited by Heedtheadvice; 30-11-2017 at 11:11 AM. Reason: many a typo....
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