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  • FIRST POST
    • RustyRascal
    • By RustyRascal 10th Nov 17, 1:58 PM
    • 58Posts
    • 65Thanks
    RustyRascal
    Civil Enforcement Limited - Lying about dates
    • #1
    • 10th Nov 17, 1:58 PM
    Civil Enforcement Limited - Lying about dates 10th Nov 17 at 1:58 PM
    Good afternoon all,

    I have started fighting a case against CEL which feels to be in a good place, so I wanted to share something I found out this morning that could help put some nails in the coffins of the open cases of the unscrupulous bs-trds.

    Having read through a number of posts on this and other forums around, I have noticed there is a common theme whereby CEL are sending out bulk particulars of claim, poorly mail merged, and in a large number of cases, not bothering to file an N215 (certificate of claim) which advises the court that they have sent their PoC! (If you are unsure whether or not the court has received your N215, call them (03001231056) with your claim number and just ask the question!)

    To add insult to injury, they have the audacity to BACKDATE the Particulars of Claim documents (a lot of them were apparently sent on the 11th October!) so it implies to the court they stuck to the rules! (CPR 7.4)

    This has NOT gone unnoticed, and following my conversation with helpdesk manager Amanda, there are a few complaints that have already been raised with the Customer Insight Team who are going to start official talks with CEL which will no doubt help defendants with their open cases. What she has requested is that I send through my case for her attention and she will forward it on.

    If you have received a backdated PoC, still have your envelope, or can prove otherwise that the forms were received outside of the 14 days they are allowed then the court wants to hear from you so they can share this information with the Customer Insight Team who are building a file for CEL.

    Where we may require some assistance is in forming a statement to send to Amanda for her to forward on. I was hoping that someone here could give us all a bit of template text that could help deliver a nice, powerful punch?

    Thanks upfront,

    RR
    Last edited by RustyRascal; 10-11-2017 at 2:06 PM.
Page 5
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 29th Nov 17, 1:32 PM
    • 1,135 Posts
    • 1,159 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    You can only rely on service via email if you have their agreement
    • RustyRascal
    • By RustyRascal 29th Nov 17, 1:37 PM
    • 58 Posts
    • 65 Thanks
    RustyRascal
    You can only rely on service via email if you have their agreement
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Thats what i understood, but did it anyway. To cover myself I included in the body of my email to CCBC that I have also posted a hard copy to their address.

    That way there is no chance of them playing games
    • logician
    • By logician 29th Nov 17, 1:38 PM
    • 88 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    logician
    Morning logican,

    Thanks for your response, really useful! I have written my cover letter, scanned it all into 1 PDF and ready to email over to CCBC!

    I need to also serve a copy to CEL, so would you advise doing this in paper form, or will copying them in to the email to the courtl suffice?

    Thanks

    RR
    Originally posted by RustyRascal
    I understand from logician that they do, but not knowing the process, I can only assume. I will give them a call this afternoon and confirm 100%!

    Thanks

    RR
    Originally posted by RustyRascal
    You can email to the court the DQ but CEL AFAIK do not have a dedicated email for legal documents. Appeals can be sent to CEL via email - appeals@ce-service.co.uk

    I would recommend that you use snail mail to CEL (address on claim form) and use first class post - get a free certificate of posting. Do not post these via a signed for service. CEL has a mail forwarding system.
    TAKE PITY ON THOSE BLIND BADGERS

    FOR EVERYONE ELSE - THERE IS SPECSAVERS*

    * NB OTHER REPUTABLE OPTICIANS ARE AVAILABLE
    THE POSTER DOES NOT ENDORSE ANY ONE OPTICIAN
    • RustyRascal
    • By RustyRascal 29th Nov 17, 1:41 PM
    • 58 Posts
    • 65 Thanks
    RustyRascal
    You can email to the court the DQ but CEL AFAIK do not have a dedicated email for legal documents. Appeals can be sent to CEL via email - appeals@ce-service.co.uk

    I would recommend that you use snail mail to CEL (address on claim form) and use first class post - get a free certificate of posting. Do not post these via a signed for service. CEL has a mail forwarding system.
    Originally posted by logician
    Did exactly that.

    Civil Enforcement Limited
    Legal Department
    Horton House
    Exchange Flags
    Liverpool
    L2 3PF

    Thank you!
    • bobhope
    • By bobhope 29th Nov 17, 2:36 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    bobhope
    Same for me Poc dated 11th Oct . envelope stamped 25th Oct unfortunately i have already submitted my DQ and notice of transfer to my local court . would it still be worth following up ?
    • RustyRascal
    • By RustyRascal 29th Nov 17, 2:47 PM
    • 58 Posts
    • 65 Thanks
    RustyRascal
    Have you already sent CEL an official complaint and requested justification for them backdating the POC?

    Also, have they submitted an N215 (certificate of service) with the court for your case?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 29th Nov 17, 2:59 PM
    • 1,135 Posts
    • 1,159 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Yes, of coruse it is worth doing. You wil have read from every thread that the point is the CUMULATIVE effect of showing CEL to be the scum they are.
    • bobhope
    • By bobhope 29th Nov 17, 4:05 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    bobhope
    Have you already sent CEL an official complaint and requested justification for them backdating the POC?

    Also, have they submitted an N215 (certificate of service) with the court for your case?
    Originally posted by RustyRascal
    only found out today from reading this post about CELl back dating , received notice of transfer of proceedings on Monday this week to my local court .
    • bobhope
    • By bobhope 29th Nov 17, 4:08 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    bobhope
    Yes, of coruse it is worth doing. You wil have read from every thread that the point is the CUMULATIVE effect of showing CEL to be the scum they are.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Great will do . will follow advice from posts above & use draft . would i send a to my local court as well or just CEL ?
    Last edited by bobhope; 29-11-2017 at 4:10 PM.
    • RustyRascal
    • By RustyRascal 29th Nov 17, 4:11 PM
    • 58 Posts
    • 65 Thanks
    RustyRascal
    only found out today from reading this post about CELl back dating , received notice of transfer of proceedings on Monday this week to my local court .
    Originally posted by bobhope
    Do you still have the envelope from the letter CEL sent the POC in by any chance? Also do you have any dates for the court hearing yet?

    Either way, take the template letters that LoadsOfChildren123 has helped create, personalise it with your case details and shoot it off to CEL requesting justification for their backdating. Send an official complaint letter to the court that this has happened as well. Doesn't matter that they are ignoring them, the more they receive the more likely they will start to pay attention and definitely denting CEL's reputation!
    • bobhope
    • By bobhope 29th Nov 17, 4:23 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    bobhope
    Do you still have the envelope from the letter CEL sent the POC in by any chance? Also do you have any dates for the court hearing yet?

    Either way, take the template letters that LoadsOfChildren123 has helped create, personalise it with your case details and shoot it off to CEL requesting justification for their backdating. Send an official complaint letter to the court that this has happened as well. Doesn't matter that they are ignoring them, the more they receive the more likely they will start to pay attention and definitely denting CEL's reputation!
    Originally posted by RustyRascal
    Thanks, yes i have the envelope CEL sent the POC in .
    • ruffneck247
    • By ruffneck247 29th Nov 17, 4:37 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    ruffneck247
    OK have also sent by mail.
    • RustyRascal
    • By RustyRascal 29th Nov 17, 4:40 PM
    • 58 Posts
    • 65 Thanks
    RustyRascal
    OK have also sent by mail.
    Originally posted by ruffneck247
    Did you get a receipt from the post office to prove delivery date?
    • ruffneck247
    • By ruffneck247 30th Nov 17, 4:36 PM
    • 47 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    ruffneck247
    Did you get a receipt from the post office to prove delivery date?
    Originally posted by RustyRascal
    Yep, got receipt
    • RustyRascal
    • By RustyRascal 4th Dec 17, 11:09 AM
    • 58 Posts
    • 65 Thanks
    RustyRascal
    I got an update today on my MCOL portal advising me "Your claim was transferred to XXXXXXX on 02/12/2017"

    This was my court of choice on the DQ, so does that mean that CEL are progressing this claim, or is this just a normal part of the process? If the former, what is the best next step for me?

    Thanks!

    RR
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Dec 17, 11:23 AM
    • 15,841 Posts
    • 24,567 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    You must surely know that CEL will go all the way to the wire until they decide what they finally do.

    To date, where the motorist has jumped through every possible hoop to prevent CEL obtaining a default judgment, they have discontinued late on in the process.

    You must work on the basis that this is going all the way to court and meet every requirement and deadline in order to pressurise CEL into a discontinuance. You’re very much in their hands at the moment.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • RustyRascal
    • By RustyRascal 4th Dec 17, 11:33 AM
    • 58 Posts
    • 65 Thanks
    RustyRascal
    You must surely know that CEL will go all the way to the wire until they decide what they finally do.

    To date, where the motorist has jumped through every possible hoop to prevent CEL obtaining a default judgment, they have discontinued late on in the process.

    You must work on the basis that this is going all the way to court and meet every requirement and deadline in order to pressurise CEL into a discontinuance. You’re very much in their hands at the moment.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    OK, makes sense. I have started drafting my witness statement ready for the next stages and will upload it once i am happy it is in a good "first draft" state to be refined.

    Cheers
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 4th Dec 17, 11:45 AM
    • 1,135 Posts
    • 1,159 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Yep, you know the next steps, and the key dateto look out for - the document exchange date in the hearing letter
    CEL seem to discontinue most often AFTER the D files their bundle. At this point they know a hearing will cost them, EVEN IF they win, and will cost more than simply discontinuing now.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 4th Dec 17, 1:17 PM
    • 1,739 Posts
    • 2,837 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    I got an update today on my MCOL portal advising me "Your claim was transferred to XXXXXXX on 02/12/2017"

    This was my court of choice on the DQ, so does that mean that CEL are progressing this claim, or is this just a normal part of the process? If the former, what is the best next step for me?

    Thanks!

    RR
    Originally posted by RustyRascal
    Quite normal.
    A judge will look at it now, confirm that allocation to small claims and issue a timetable for WSs, documents and the trial date. There will be a date given by when CEL must pay the hearing fee. Sometimes they cave when this becomes payable, sometimes before, sometimes later. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to it.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • RustyRascal
    • By RustyRascal 4th Dec 17, 1:20 PM
    • 58 Posts
    • 65 Thanks
    RustyRascal
    Quite normal.
    A judge will look at it now, confirm that allocation to small claims and issue a timetable for WSs, documents and the trial date. There will be a date given by when CEL must pay the hearing fee. Sometimes they cave when this becomes payable, sometimes before, sometimes later. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to it.
    Originally posted by Loadsofchildren123
    Thanks LOC,

    As mentioned above, i have started to draft my WS based on a template you have supported on elsewhere and will upload for scrutinisation shortly.

    Can't thank you all enough for the time and energy you have given to me (and everyone else you help tirelessly)...I genuinely wouldn't have been able to get to this point without you all!

    Looking forward to this concluding, regardless of the outcome

    RR
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