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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Megan F
    • By MSE Megan F 1st Nov 17, 8:45 AM
    • 177Posts
    • 68Thanks
    MSE Megan F
    MSE News: MSE tells MPs of need for urgent reform to ombudsman ‘farce’
    • #1
    • 1st Nov 17, 8:45 AM
    MSE News: MSE tells MPs of need for urgent reform to ombudsman ‘farce’ 1st Nov 17 at 8:45 AM
    MoneySavingExpert.com is calling on the Government to overhaul the 'farcical' ombudsman complaints route in a damning report, which found some consumers feel escalating concerns is a 'complete waste of time'...
    Read the full story:
    'MSE tells MPs of need for urgent reform to ombudsman ‘farce’'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.
    Read the latest MSE News
    Flag up a news story: news@moneysavingexpert.com
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Page 2
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 2nd Nov 17, 3:19 PM
    • 15,635 Posts
    • 11,442 Thanks
    hollydays
    yeah.

    In other news, 75% of people who were defendants in criminal cases thought the judge was clearly biased against them (strangely about 75% are found guilty...), so clearly we need to revamp the criminal justice system!

    MSE has used a poor survey to highlight a valid point.
    Originally posted by martinsurrey
    But the consumers aren’t on trial.
    Why do you say it’s a poor survey?
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 2nd Nov 17, 3:28 PM
    • 15,635 Posts
    • 11,442 Thanks
    hollydays
    I haven't had time to read the whole report but it seems dean Dunham was probably the benchmark for what an ombudsman probably shouldnt be.

    If he has managed to behave the way he did, clearly anyone else could.

    It appears dean Dunham “ resigned”. Some would call that jumping before they are pushed .

    It would have been interesting to see the report on his company if he hadn’t resigned, but everyone’s Being very tight lipped about that
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 2nd Nov 17, 3:34 PM
    • 3,225 Posts
    • 3,927 Thanks
    martinsurrey
    But the consumers aren’t on trial.
    Why do you say it’s a poor survey?
    Originally posted by hollydays
    Do you think people who have complained and have had their complaints dismissed are impartial? its hard to be impartial when you are invested in the result.

    Its like asking a load of used car salesmen if used car salesmen are trustworthy!

    Instead of using a survey they could have highlighted cases when the ombudsman was obviously biased, if 60% of people thought they were (and they are right) there must by a lot of clear cut evidence, must be thousands of them.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 2nd Nov 17, 3:40 PM
    • 15,635 Posts
    • 11,442 Thanks
    hollydays
    Do you think people who have complained and have had their complaints dismissed are impartial? its hard to be impartial when you are invested in the result.

    Its like asking a load of used car salesmen if used car salesmen are trustworthy!

    Instead of using a survey they could have highlighted cases when the ombudsman was obviously biased, if 60% of people thought they were (and they are right) there must by a lot of clear cut evidence, must be thousands of them.
    Originally posted by martinsurrey
    So are you saying all the participants had their complaints dismissed?
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 2nd Nov 17, 5:05 PM
    • 3,225 Posts
    • 3,927 Thanks
    martinsurrey
    So are you saying all the participants had their complaints dismissed?
    Originally posted by hollydays
    No, stop using strawmen.

    I am saying that everyone in the survey was emotionally involved in the process, so an objective assessment of whether the ombudsman is actually biased against consumers is inherently floored.

    but IF 60% of people thought the ombudsman was biased, and they were right (ombudsman biased in 60% of cases), that would equate to about 40,000 biased decisions a year (about 75k cases resolved per year), so surely finding some clear cut examples would be a piece of cake and would provide irrefutable evidence that the system doesn't work.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 2nd Nov 17, 5:47 PM
    • 15,635 Posts
    • 11,442 Thanks
    hollydays
    Bearing in mind everybody surveyed after making a complaint will be emotionally invested.

    Perhaps a large proportion of those surveyed( I think
    I remember mse asking people for their opinions on using ombudsmen ) were using the retail
    Ombudsman who resigned so perhaps they couldn’t include those cases accordingly.
    Last edited by hollydays; 02-11-2017 at 5:51 PM.
    • takman
    • By takman 2nd Nov 17, 9:00 PM
    • 2,900 Posts
    • 2,416 Thanks
    takman
    If the adjudicator had wanted more details he could have asked, part of the code they work with says that if they think they are lacking any information they can request more before making a judgement, he has actually stated in the judgement he did not have enough information but still made a judgement anyway, directly going against the code. If they wanted to be totally fair, should they not have charged me for my usage as a proportion of my contracted minutes/data used over the disputed period?
    Originally posted by boatman
    So where did he state he didn't have enough information?. This is the only bit you have posted related to this:

    I have not been provided with any information regarding any other deals he might have done had his termination request been accepted, or savings that he may have been able to achieve from this.
    Originally posted by boatman
    But that doesn't say he didn't have enough information, that says you didn't provide any information related to this so he has to assume you didn't have this information. If you had moved to another contract or could have got a better deal elsewhere then you should have mentioned this in your original complaint.

    If he specifically requested information of any better deals available then people will simply go looking for this even if they hadn't considered it before so it would give them an unfair advantage.
    • boatman
    • By boatman 3rd Nov 17, 12:58 PM
    • 3,550 Posts
    • 2,495 Thanks
    boatman
    But that doesn't say he didn't have enough information, that says you didn't provide any information related to this so he has to assume you didn't have this information. If you had moved to another contract or could have got a better deal elsewhere then you should have mentioned this in your original complaint.
    If he specifically requested information of any better deals available then people will simply go looking for this even if they hadn't considered it before so it would give them an unfair advantage.
    Originally posted by takman
    To be honest I wasn't aware I would have to provide an alternative to compare contracts, I was simply not aware that that would be a requirement on deciding if EE/TMobile did or did not abide by the contract, which is what I focused on. There were a few cases before mine that had been refunded, so as far as I was concerned, provided I won, like the others, I would be repaid the money I had been forced to pay. As I said before, we were all on the same contract and leaving for the same reason, so I don't think it unreasonable to expect the same outcome from CISAS.
    Last edited by boatman; 03-11-2017 at 1:03 PM. Reason: ii
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 3rd Nov 17, 1:09 PM
    • 7,721 Posts
    • 5,584 Thanks
    pmduk
    I suspect most of the problems with ombudsmen services are caused by Governments creating useless regulators. eg Ofcom.
    • Dakota
    • By Dakota 8th Nov 17, 4:56 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Dakota
    Report findings accurate
    My own experience energy ombudsman biased, slow, and as much use as a chocolate fire guard. Will check if I can sue via money claim on line, much less hassle and unlikely to be biased'
    • Dakota
    • By Dakota 8th Nov 17, 5:00 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Dakota
    Yup, absolutely useless I won't waste my time with any ombudsman.
    • holdon
    • By holdon 2nd Dec 17, 10:47 AM
    • 44 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    holdon
    I have read with much interest what the 'consumers' have said regarding the legislation which was passed in order to protect them, the term 'protect' is only available when evidence suggests that the 'consumer' in question should be protected against a 'product or service' that has so far been found to be lacking in one aspect or another.


    I have produced evidence of many sorts over some 40 years, I have also acted as voluntary Advocate for 20 years, following my acquired disability. In consequence I have seen the 'maladministration' and malpractice of Ombudsmen and 'regulators' in many forms and have either addressed issues or at least attempted to address these issues before.


    My complaint was/is against BT who acted in a manner that put them in breach of contract and evidence to support this allegation was placed before the Ombudsman Service Communications(OSC), the evidence included details of my contract with BT. Following substantial conversations with the OSC the OSC dishonoured agreements made during the conversations and it became very clear that I was going to have problems with the OSC and their refusal to honour their own Terms of Reference(TOR) and simply comply with what they say they will comply with. At this stage I applied to Ofcom, as Competent Authority(CA) to intervene and 'regulate' what was becoming clear maladministration by the OSC, the best that Ofcom could offer was "we don't get involved with individual complaints", this statement has since come back to Ofcom as 'inadequate'. It is important here to mention that the ADR Legislation, in my opinion, places a duty on the CA to regulate at the earliest opportunity so that breaches in the regulations do not occur, this Ofcom have failed to do.


    My complaint with the OSC was reviewed, I am told, many times by an Ombudsman yet each and every Ombudsman continued to breach the terms laid out in their own TOR as published on the OSC website, my case was then referred to the Independent Assessor who found in my favour on a number of issues and the case was later again returned to an OSC ombudsman, 3 months later I received the review only to find that the ombudsman had ignored the Independent Assessors report and merely supported the maladministration and decisions made prior to the Independent Assessors report, this is in itself questionable practice and is currently being reviewed.


    During all of this my case was referred to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman(PHSO) who were trying to deal with my complaint under the Communications Act when in reality it was the ADR Legislation that should have applied and can be viewed in the following link http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/542/pdfs/uksi_20150542_en.pdf, unfortunately I found the PHSO less than helpful and in fact only served to waste valuable time


    I know that there are many complainants who have similar experiences when trying to deal with the OSC and who have followed the same route as myself, only by joining together can changes be made. I have the strongest possible complaint registered with Ofcom in that the OSC are 'passing off' a service that is simply not available simply because those employed by the OSC either not 'suitably qualified or experience' or are too apathetic to deal with the more complicated complaints, this must be put right now not later, in fact it should have been in place when Ofcom approved the OSC.


    This will be far from the end of my complaint and I will publish updates as and when they are available but it is clear Ofcom's enquiries will have to be far reaching and comprehensive to address matters complained of.
    • codger
    • By codger 2nd Dec 17, 11:55 AM
    • 1,451 Posts
    • 2,240 Thanks
    codger
    This will be far from the end of my complaint and I will publish updates as and when they are available but it is clear Ofcom's enquiries will have to be far reaching and comprehensive to address matters complained of.
    Originally posted by holdon
    It'll be interesting to hear of the outcome, as and when. A further hilarious verdict on your partiality by the schoolboy judge on this thread will no doubt be handed down, but take no notice: your position is anything but, er, floored.
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