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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Karl
    • By MSE Karl 31st Oct 17, 5:13 PM
    • 35Posts
    • 9Thanks
    MSE Karl
    Smart Meters
    • #1
    • 31st Oct 17, 5:13 PM
    Smart Meters 31st Oct 17 at 5:13 PM
    Hi!

    This is the discussion thread for the


    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.
    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 09-11-2017 at 2:25 PM.
Page 5
    • sparrowhawk123
    • By sparrowhawk123 2nd Dec 17, 6:23 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    sparrowhawk123
    Everyone has their own opinion, if the public get the chance to look into the evidence for and against the use of smart meters, they could then make their own informed decision on whether its right for them and the environment . At the moment I don't think people are getting the option.
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 2nd Dec 17, 7:14 PM
    • 745 Posts
    • 636 Thanks
    House Martin
    Had a smart meter fitted earlier this year and stupidly did not look into the consequences fully enough. Am now looking to switch and have already discovered that the SM I have will lose its functionality if I switch to the companies I am considering. This doesn't really concern me, as I am used to reading my meter manually and the in home display unit I have doesn't work anyway and sits at the back of a cupboard. Of more concern is the notice attached to the smart meter, 'property of (my current supplier)'. Are they going to charge me for removing the meter if I switch away from them, lmeaning another charge from map new company? I suppose I could ask them but every time I have a query I enter into long and inclonclusive correspondence with customer service assistants who can't or won't, understand my query.
    Originally posted by carolbristol
    They could well charge you. I have seen some advice where Ovo, who was one of the first to fit smart prepayment meters, put up barriers to customers who want to change suppliers, say, back to British Gas. BG cannot use the Liberty Secure meters in prepay mode which Ovo and now others also use. Ovo try to bill customers for the meter exchange which is required or put barriers up to block the switch.
    I personally will be refusing Eon to fit Liberty Secure meters at my property if they want to book me a time to fit them.
    They are welcome to fit the Landis Gyr smart meters they used to install.
    Just because they have changed to the cheapjack awful Liberty Secure meters, because they are cheaper to buy, I don`t have to go along with it.
    I will be switching from Eon in 11 months time anyway so I most probably won`t have that problem. All meter fitters for Eon work at a snails pace , it will be decades before they get the job done.
    • Robisere
    • By Robisere 2nd Dec 17, 8:19 PM
    • 1,926 Posts
    • 2,684 Thanks
    Robisere
    another load of rubbish from another conspiricy theorist
    Originally posted by matelodave
    And a response from someone who cannot spell 'conspiracy'.

    -Although, admittedly, the organisation does appear to be full of 'facts' that are mostly donkey doo-doo. The only reference I can find in the hysterical 'warnings' that has some truth, is that there have been fires, caused by improper fitting, by untrained fitters.
    There may be more than one way to skin a cat.
    But the result is always inedible.

    • AndyCF
    • By AndyCF 2nd Dec 17, 9:55 PM
    • 192 Posts
    • 503 Thanks
    AndyCF
    The only reference I can find in the hysterical 'warnings' that has some truth, is that there have been fires, caused by improper fitting, by untrained fitters.
    Originally posted by Robisere
    Assuming its not something like overheating relay contacts inside which seems unlikely somehow, I can only guess the cause of this is either the 'tails' not being secured enough and heating up due to resistance or the terminal block (or whatever it would be called in these) not being up to scratch, but that seems unlikely somehow.

    If there's another 'likely cause' them I'm all ears.

    Going to say I am actually reasonably happy with my (electric supply) Smart despite my very long 'saga' with it all.
    • sparrowhawk123
    • By sparrowhawk123 6th Dec 17, 4:33 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    sparrowhawk123
    Hi
    Could you give an example of a "fact" that you consider to be donkey doo-doo.
    And do you have any thoughts on the EMF Radiation that will be emitted from a smart meter.
    Thanks
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 6th Dec 17, 5:43 PM
    • 4,663 Posts
    • 2,830 Thanks
    Hengus
    Hi
    Could you give an example of a "fact" that you consider to be donkey doo-doo.
    And do you have any thoughts on the EMF Radiation that will be emitted from a smart meter.
    Thanks
    Originally posted by sparrowhawk123
    We live in a connected World and unless you walk around in a Faraday Cage, I doubt that there is any way that people worried about RF radiation from smart meters can protect themselves. Should we be concerned, various cancer support sites think not?

    Quote: Smart meters are typically installed outside the home, either in place of or as part of existing meters. How much RF energy that people are exposed to from the smart meter depends on how far they are from the smart meter antenna and how the smart meter sends its signal. The frequency and power of the RF waves given off by a smart meter are similar to that of a typical cell phone, cordless phone, or residential Wi-Fi router. Smart meters typically send and receive short messages about 1% of the time.

    Because the smart meter antenna usually is located outside the home, people are much farther away from the source of RF waves than some other possible sources of exposure to RF radiation, such as personal cell phones and cordless phones. In addition, walls between the person and the smart meter’s antenna further reduce the amount of RF energy exposure. This means that the amount of RF radiation that someone would be exposed to from a smart meter is probably much lower than the amount that they would be exposed to from other sources.

    Can smart meters cause cancer?

    Smart meters give off RF radiation. RF radiation is low-energy radiation. RF radiation doesn’t have enough energy to remove charged particles such as electrons (ionize), and so is called non-ionizing radiation. Non-ionizing radiation has enough energy to move atoms in a molecule around or cause them to vibrate, which can lead to heat but it can’t damage DNA directly.

    RF radiation is classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), as “possibly carcinogenic to humans.” This is based on the finding of a possible link in at least one study between cell phone use and a specific type of brain tumor. Because RF radiation is a possible carcinogen, and smart meters give off RF radiation, it is possible that smart meters could increase cancer risk. Still, it isn’t clear what risk, if any there might be from living in a home with a smart meter.

    It would be nearly impossible to conduct a study to prove or disprove a link between living in a house with smart meters and cancer because people have so many sources of exposure to RF and the level of exposure from this source is so small. Because, the amount of RF radiation you could be exposed to from a smart meter is much less than what you could be exposed to from a cell phone, it is very unlikely that living in a house with a smart meter increases risk of cancer. The World Health Organization has promised to conduct a formal assessment of the risks from RF exposure but this report is not yet available. Unquote

    Source: American Cancer Society
    • Michaelw
    • By Michaelw 6th Dec 17, 9:11 PM
    • 75 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Michaelw
    Everyone has their own opinion, if the public get the chance to look into the evidence for and against the use of smart meters, they could then make their own informed decision on whether its right for them and the environment . At the moment I don't think people are getting the option.
    Originally posted by sparrowhawk123
    We just don't know what if any long term effects are regarding signals/radiation from smart meters these can travel well over 50 meters plus in the right conditions to a inhome display and the wall out the front may well be the best place for them from a standard point of view.

    The gas meter readings on British Gases smart meter is approximately half an hour behind real time.This means a reading of say 6p or zero an hour is not at current usage similarly when the heating is switched on this can jump to 26p an hour around half an later the booklet does explain this when read closely also I have noted the electicity price sometimes jumps 10p turning to the next day on occasion.

    They do offer some benefits in prepay without having to know what is the credit on meters outside and offer more ways to pay but they do offer the supplier much more convience in the long run and immediate and total control of supply and usage.Also the display on their (British Gas) E470 Electricity meter is of poor use there is no immediate backlight,no todays amount usage and is not at first glance friendly I found in prepayment mode.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 7th Dec 17, 8:28 PM
    • 4,663 Posts
    • 2,830 Thanks
    Hengus
    This guy should be seriously worried about the effects of radiation on his brain:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-42271150
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 7th Dec 17, 8:37 PM
    • 745 Posts
    • 636 Thanks
    House Martin
    We just don't know what if any long term effects are regarding signals/radiation from smart meters these can travel well over 50 meters plus in the right conditions to a inhome display and the wall out the front may well be the best place for them from a standard point of view.

    The gas meter readings on British Gases smart meter is approximately half an hour behind real time.This means a reading of say 6p or zero an hour is not at current usage similarly when the heating is switched on this can jump to 26p an hour around half an later the booklet does explain this when read closely also I have noted the electicity price sometimes jumps 10p turning to the next day on occasion.

    They do offer some benefits in prepay without having to know what is the credit on meters outside and offer more ways to pay but they do offer the supplier much more convience in the long run and immediate and total control of supply and usage.Also the display on their (British Gas) E470 Electricity meter is of poor use there is no immediate backlight,no todays amount usage and is not at first glance friendly I found in prepayment mode.
    Originally posted by Michaelw
    Smart prepayment meters are one of the answers to the wholesale meter fiddling going off in our streets in huge numbers .This link below surprised hard bitten BG RPU men who went into 20 houses nearby the gas explosion with the help of the Police and were shocked at the extent of the theft of energy in just one terraced street in Tinsley , Sheffield
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25718447
    In this example the 7 out 20 meters caught fiddling in Dundas Rd Sheffield were all prepayment meters.
    I would say that 9 out of 10 occupants thieving energy are using the easy to fiddle prepayment meters.
    Smart prepayment meters will level up the playing field giving the suppliers knowledge of what exactly is happening inside properties.
    We are all paying in the long run for stolen energy exactly the same as we pay for the smart meter roll out
    Last edited by House Martin; 08-12-2017 at 2:49 PM.
    • jasee
    • By jasee 8th Dec 17, 11:24 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    jasee
    Smart Meters: the problem
    The main problem to me (as I have just had a new smart meter fitted) is the smart meter is energy supplier specific, so if I change energy supplier, the meter will no longer send my meter reading in (of course). It sends only to the one supplier that fitted it. So one big benefit is lost.
    Also the remote display (which doesn't anyway give you a meter reading directly , so you still have to look at the meter!) won't give you the correct rates (so the costs are wrong) after a supplier change!
    And, fitting a smart meter is not just a question of fitting a meter to an existing system, the whole original meter has to be replaced with a new meter! So it must be expensive to do.
    So, every time you change electricity suppliers, a new smart meter will have to be fitted if you want all the benefits of having a smart meter. What a ridiculous situation!
    • brewerdave
    • By brewerdave 8th Dec 17, 11:57 AM
    • 4,602 Posts
    • 1,912 Thanks
    brewerdave
    The main problem to me (as I have just had a new smart meter fitted) is the smart meter is energy supplier specific, so if I change energy supplier, the meter will no longer send my meter reading in (of course). It sends only to the one supplier that fitted it. So one big benefit is lost.
    Also the remote display (which doesn't anyway give you a meter reading directly , so you still have to look at the meter!) won't give you the correct rates (so the costs are wrong) after a supplier change!
    And, fitting a smart meter is not just a question of fitting a meter to an existing system, the whole original meter has to be replaced with a new meter! So it must be expensive to do.
    So, every time you change electricity suppliers, a new smart meter will have to be fitted if you want all the benefits of having a smart meter. What a ridiculous situation!
    Originally posted by jasee
    SHOULD be resolved by SMETS2 compliant meters which will feed data back to a Data collector for onward distribution to your supplier - HOWEVER, this system is only in its infancy and is unproven on any sort of larger scale.
    At the same time, the Govt. have decreed that the older SMETS1 meters will be adopted into the system in the fullness of time - personally I believe the chances of this happening in an orderly fashion, to be between zero and nought!!
    • jasee
    • By jasee 8th Dec 17, 1:45 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    jasee
    SHOULD be resolved by SMETS2 compliant meters which will feed data back to a Data collector for onward distribution to your supplier - HOWEVER, this system is only in its infancy and is unproven on any sort of larger scale.
    At the same time, the Govt. have decreed that the older SMETS1 meters will be adopted into the system in the fullness of time - personally I believe the chances of this happening in an orderly fashion, to be between zero and nought!!
    Originally posted by brewerdave
    Meanwhile the SMETS1 meters are being pushed out as fast a possible order to fulfill the government requirements that the energy suppliers have a certain percentage of customers with meters by 2018!
    And customers are supposed to be shopping around for electricity suppliers.
    Can the SMETS1 meters be 'adopted into the system' anyway?
    PS Some energy suppliers say that Smart Meters are incompatible with Solar Panels, others say they are OK. Unless your meter is already running backwards then I see no reason why not
    • sparrowhawk123
    • By sparrowhawk123 8th Dec 17, 3:35 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    sparrowhawk123
    THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANISATION/IARC CLASSIFIES RADIOFREQUENCY ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS AS POSSIBLY CARCINOGENIC TO HUMANS.
    Not counting the many other possible risks/concerns from having a smart meter on, or in your home, that first sentence alone would make me look into the matter further.
    Yes, we live in a connected world and certain technological advances have improved the world we live in, but there seems to be a growing amount of evidence that is pointing toward the harm that some types of technology is causing. My point again is that people are not aware of some of these concerns and seem to be directed to issues such as, whether their smart meter is working, is the display clear or is it compatible with your new energy company. These are valid points (but are they the most important) but because people are not being informed, there are other concerns that are not being discussed.
    Is makes no sense to me to want to increase the proliferation of EMF radiation in the world, with growing studies showing the harm that it potentially can cause (all for the sake of not having to take our own meter readings).
    Again I am not allowed to copy & paste website addresses etc so if interested start with the following website and get informed before you make your decision.
    Merry Christmas

    stopsmartmeters.org.uk/faq/
























































































































    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 8th Dec 17, 4:25 PM
    • 1,068 Posts
    • 1,134 Thanks
    badmemory
    personally I believe the chances of this happening in an orderly fashion, to be between zero and nought!!
    Originally posted by brewerdave
    I was going for a cat in h e l l s chance, whilst waiting for generation 3.

    I think they are a good idea - but only if they actually work. Just think we should be able to swap suppliers in less than 10 minutes, provided you can confirm you are who you say you are, of course. Well that could be a reason why it never gets fixed! Cynical - me - never! I call it being realistic!
    • Raxiel
    • By Raxiel 8th Dec 17, 5:22 PM
    • 487 Posts
    • 253 Thanks
    Raxiel
    THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANISATION/IARC CLASSIFIES RADIOFREQUENCY ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS AS POSSIBLY CARCINOGENIC TO HUMANS.
    Not counting the many other possible risks/concerns from having a smart meter on, or in your home, that first sentence alone would make me look into the matter further.
    Yes, we live in a connected world and certain technological advances have improved the world we live in, but there seems to be a growing amount of evidence that is pointing toward the harm that some types of technology is causing. My point again is that people are not aware of some of these concerns and seem to be directed to issues such as, whether their smart meter is working, is the display clear or is it compatible with your new energy company. These are valid points (but are they the most important) but because people are not being informed, there are other concerns that are not being discussed.
    Is makes no sense to me to want to increase the proliferation of EMF radiation in the world, with growing studies showing the harm that it potentially can cause (all for the sake of not having to take our own meter readings).
    Again I am not allowed to copy & paste website addresses etc so if interested start with the following website and get informed before you make your decision.
    Merry Christmas

    stopsmartmeters.org.uk/faq/
    Originally posted by sparrowhawk123
    It's OK, if you believe it's a problem, someone believes they've found a solution : https://store.planet-tachyon.com/tachyon-g-smart-gas-meter-emf-radiation-protection-kit/
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 8th Dec 17, 5:28 PM
    • 3,147 Posts
    • 4,181 Thanks
    Nick_C
    The main problem to me (as I have just had a new smart meter fitted) is the smart meter is energy supplier specific, so if I change energy supplier, the meter will no longer send my meter reading in (of course). It sends only to the one supplier that fitted it. So one big benefit is lost.
    Also the remote display (which doesn't anyway give you a meter reading directly , so you still have to look at the meter!) won't give you the correct rates (so the costs are wrong) after a supplier change!
    And, fitting a smart meter is not just a question of fitting a meter to an existing system, the whole original meter has to be replaced with a new meter! So it must be expensive to do.
    So, every time you change electricity suppliers, a new smart meter will have to be fitted if you want all the benefits of having a smart meter. What a ridiculous situation!
    Originally posted by jasee
    Well that's not always the case. Ovo, E.on, First Utility, and Utilita all use the same meters, and switching between these suppliers means you meter stays smart.
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 8th Dec 17, 5:42 PM
    • 745 Posts
    • 636 Thanks
    House Martin
    Well that's not always the case. Ovo, E.on, First Utility, and Utilita all use the same meters, and switching between these suppliers means you meter stays smart.
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    They will not work smart even if they use the same meter. The only supplier i know who can manage that are British Gas and Sainsburys Energy .Maybe SSE and Marks and Spencers can also play that trick
    • jasee
    • By jasee 8th Dec 17, 5:47 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    jasee
    Well that's not always the case. Ovo, E.on, First Utility, and Utilita all use the same meters, and switching between these suppliers means you meter stays smart.
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    They may use the same type of smart meters but does it mean they can be reprogrammed to send their reading to different energy suppliers?
    And receive data from different suppliers?
    In which case, it's probably useful to find out which suppliers use which meters.
    AFAICT the meter will still run and you can take reading from it in the traditional way (by reading it directly) but none? of the smartmeter functions will work.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 8th Dec 17, 10:53 PM
    • 3,147 Posts
    • 4,181 Thanks
    Nick_C
    They may use the same type of smart meters but does it mean they can be reprogrammed to send their reading to different energy suppliers?
    And receive data from different suppliers?
    In which case, it's probably useful to find out which suppliers use which meters.
    AFAICT the meter will still run and you can take reading from it in the traditional way (by reading it directly) but none? of the smartmeter functions will work.
    Originally posted by jasee
    https://www.ovoenergy.com/ovo-answers/topics/all-about-switching/the-switching-process/will-my-smart-products-still-work-if-i-switch-provider.html

    At OVO we use Secure smart meters. The only other suppliers currently using the same kind of Secure smart meters are E.ON, First Utility and Utilita. So if you decide to move to one of those suppliers, they’ll be able to communicate with your OVO smart meter. And, of course, if you want to switch away from E.ON, First Utility or Utilita and join us at OVO, your smart meter should still work with us. However, it might not work if you’ve had a smart meter for a long time, and your supplier was using a different meter model or manufacturer at that stage. If you move between OVO and any provider that isn’t mentioned above, your meter will become a traditional meter – but this could be only temporary – see below.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 9th Dec 17, 12:52 AM
    • 1,068 Posts
    • 1,134 Thanks
    badmemory
    Until suppliers think it a good idea for their meters to be compatable with other company's meters, which they quite obviously don't for quite obvious reasons, we are all stuck with this pathetic system. Anyone who thinks that because suppliers may be using the same make/model of meter means that they can change supplier & retain the access is being naive.
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