Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Karl
    • By MSE Karl 31st Oct 17, 5:13 PM
    • 35Posts
    • 9Thanks
    MSE Karl
    Smart Meters
    • #1
    • 31st Oct 17, 5:13 PM
    Smart Meters 31st Oct 17 at 5:13 PM
    Hi!

    This is the discussion thread for the


    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.
    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 09-11-2017 at 2:25 PM.
Page 4
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 18th Nov 17, 8:45 PM
    • 3,377 Posts
    • 6,290 Thanks
    EachPenny
    Will they replace a current SMETS 1 meter or remotely upgrade - some conflicting stories!
    Originally posted by chimpanzee23
    I think it would be a reasonable assumption that by the time the organisers of the programme are anywhere near being capable of upgrading SMETS1 meters the things will be outside their certification and already on their way to landfill.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Michaelw
    • By Michaelw 19th Nov 17, 9:45 PM
    • 75 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Michaelw
    The smart gas meter does appear to default to off shutting the valve closed in the event of battery failure.One comment is a neighbour had to wait several days before being reconnected.Its a concern for anyone with a smart meter.

    http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/smart-meter-battery-failure-leaves-home-without-gas/

    https://forum.ovoenergy.com/pay-monthly-21/battery-in-meter-is-dead-565
    • markbloke
    • By markbloke 21st Nov 17, 3:04 PM
    • 308 Posts
    • 173 Thanks
    markbloke
    Ovo's plan to fix the incomplete commissioning of my gas meter by having an engineer call when he happens to be passing didn't seem to be working after three weeks. I've therefore switched to "Bulb" who have competitive rates, will pay off Ovo's ransom of £60 for leaving and won't fit a smart meter until SMETs2 versions are available. Ovo also refused to pay me compensation for taking time off work for a failed meter installation.
    Reading this signature is a waste of time
    • carolbristol
    • By carolbristol 22nd Nov 17, 8:30 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    carolbristol
    Had a smart meter fitted earlier this year and stupidly did not look into the consequences fully enough. Am now looking to switch and have already discovered that the SM I have will lose its functionality if I switch to the companies I am considering. This doesn't really concern me, as I am used to reading my meter manually and the in home display unit I have doesn't work anyway and sits at the back of a cupboard. Of more concern is the notice attached to the smart meter, 'property of (my current supplier)'. Are they going to charge me for removing the meter if I switch away from them, lmeaning another charge from map new company? I suppose I could ask them but every time I have a query I enter into long and inclonclusive correspondence with customer service assistants who can't or won't, understand my query.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 22nd Nov 17, 8:48 AM
    • 4,664 Posts
    • 2,831 Thanks
    Hengus
    Had a smart meter fitted earlier this year and stupidly did not look into the consequences fully enough. Am now looking to switch and have already discovered that the SM I have will lose its functionality if I switch to the companies I am considering. This doesn't really concern me, as I am used to reading my meter manually and the in home display unit I have doesn't work anyway and sits at the back of a cupboard. Of more concern is the notice attached to the smart meter, 'property of (my current supplier)'. Are they going to charge me for removing the meter if I switch away from them, lmeaning another charge from map new company? I suppose I could ask them but every time I have a query I enter into long and inclonclusive correspondence with customer service assistants who can't or won't, understand my query.
    Originally posted by carolbristol
    The answer to your question is 'no - you will not be charged'. I have a 17 year old meter that 'belongs' to a supplier that no longer exists. The Government has an ongoing consultation to update meters such as yours from mid 2018 onwards which will allow you to switch suppliers. If that is not possible, your meter will be deemed a stranded asset and replaced by 2020.
    • saving-mad
    • By saving-mad 23rd Nov 17, 9:30 PM
    • 412 Posts
    • 223 Thanks
    saving-mad
    I booked an appointment with sse to fit our smart meter, they asked lots of questions before fitting.
    It would appear they forgot a crucial question "do you have a good mobile signal?"
    I waited in all afternoon for the engineer for him to walk in and say theres no phone signal here, no I said at least the meter works on WIFI, I'm sorry he said, they don't work on wifi they need a good vodaphone signal, I can't fit it.
    He then left, I had had to have the day off work for the appointment and nowhere on the literature did it mention this nor was I asked the question.
    I was looking forward to having one.
    Owner of a cute cottage in the North York Moors
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 23rd Nov 17, 9:39 PM
    • 4,664 Posts
    • 2,831 Thanks
    Hengus
    I booked an appointment with sse to fit our smart meter, they asked lots of questions before fitting.
    It would appear they forgot a crucial question "do you have a good mobile signal?"
    I waited in all afternoon for the engineer for him to walk in and say theres no phone signal here, no I said at least the meter works on WIFI, I'm sorry he said, they don't work on wifi they need a good vodaphone signal, I can't fit it.
    He then left, I had had to have the day off work for the appointment and nowhere on the literature did it mention this nor was I asked the question.
    I was looking forward to having one.
    Originally posted by saving-mad
    Wait until later next year/2019 when all smart meters will be to the new SMETS2 Standard. These meters use a Wide Area Network which don’t require a point to point mobile signal. A meter without a mobile signal will connect to adjacent meters until a mobile signal is found that connects with The Data Communications Company. Clearly, if you live in a remote croft with no adjacent properties then this clever plan will not work.
    • brewerdave
    • By brewerdave 24th Nov 17, 8:29 AM
    • 4,602 Posts
    • 1,912 Thanks
    brewerdave
    Wait until later next year/2019 when all smart meters will be to the new SMETS2 Standard. These meters use a Wide Area Network which don’t require a point to point mobile signal. A meter without a mobile signal will connect to adjacent meters until a mobile signal is found that connects with The Data Communications Company. Clearly, if you live in a remote croft with no adjacent properties then this clever plan will not work.
    Originally posted by Hengus

    ...or ,IF an early adopter, there are no other SMETS2 meters in the vicinity to establish the WAN!
    • AndyCF
    • By AndyCF 24th Nov 17, 10:50 PM
    • 194 Posts
    • 504 Thanks
    AndyCF
    My only slight concern with a gas 'Smart' is even if its on 'Credit mode' aka not on a pre-pay if the battery should die I half expect it may shut the gas valve down for "safety reasons" the same way the pre-pay one can at least from what I read on here regarding internal battery failures.

    Given in most cases (as I understand it) the meter is the same its merely the mode it is set in. Perhaps I'm wrong on this 'shut off in credit mode' , I hope so.
    • MeterMan
    • By MeterMan 25th Nov 17, 9:54 AM
    • 280 Posts
    • 155 Thanks
    MeterMan
    I don't know why people are banging on about batteries failing which may cause the valve to shut. For the last 15/20 years, prepay gas meters have had batteries in them, they do sometimes fail, they do sometimes shut off the gas and sometimes they don't shut off the gas.

    I have seen over the last 6 years that smart gas meters where the battery has failed has also not closed the valve, causing unregistered gas to pass, but im sure no one is bothered by free gas.
    • AndyCF
    • By AndyCF 25th Nov 17, 11:10 AM
    • 194 Posts
    • 504 Thanks
    AndyCF
    I don't know why people are banging on about batteries failing which may cause the valve to shut. For the last 15/20 years, prepay gas meters have had batteries in them, they do sometimes fail, they do sometimes shut off the gas and sometimes they don't shut off the gas.

    I have seen over the last 6 years that smart gas meters where the battery has failed has also not closed the valve, causing unregistered gas to pass, but im sure no one is bothered by free gas.
    Originally posted by MeterMan
    My ( probably unwarranted ) concern was someone with a "credit" 'regular DD' / 'pay on receipt of bill' etc setup who had a smart meter would be upset if the battery died and it shut their gas off that's all.

    I do understand the economics of not having two different types of 'smart' when one can serve both a credit or prepay setup. To be honest it may be simply lack of thought in the firmware of them in that in credit mode the de-activation should be erm 'de-activated' so ti cannot shut the gas off. This is no different as I see it than a regular older dial/lcd type which did not have an internal shutoff valve, instead relying on the manual one next to it.

    I should point out here my first Electric Smart about 3/4 years ago was a joy compared to the newer one although to be fair once you have figured out what to press*** its fine.

    *** Its interesting there are no detailed instructions usually supplied on the actual smart meter operation only very basic ones if that, compared to what you get for the IHD. I'll be putting that into my feedback next week too. Interestingly the 'first one' the IHD was colour and the newer one is mono but it looks about the same.
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 25th Nov 17, 12:43 PM
    • 745 Posts
    • 637 Thanks
    House Martin
    I don't know why people are banging on about batteries failing which may cause the valve to shut. For the last 15/20 years, prepay gas meters have had batteries in them, they do sometimes fail, they do sometimes shut off the gas and sometimes they don't shut off the gas.

    I have seen over the last 6 years that smart gas meters where the battery has failed has also not closed the valve, causing unregistered gas to pass, but im sure no one is bothered by free gas.
    Originally posted by MeterMan
    Yes it s hit or miss if the valve shuts off.
    Its extremely common to see occupiers with gas prepayment meters (where the battery has failed and the valve has remained open) to keep it quiet once they realise their gas is "free " and do not need to keep feeding the meter with tenners they can t afford.
    it can go on for years and years. And it does, very often
    From what I have seen over the years getting the money repaid, and it could be thousands, is difficult.Tenants move on or change the account holder, rather than accept a repayment debt of up to £16 a week . A new tenant will move in and quickly realise their heating is free so keep quiet and will not call the supplier .The old George Wilson prepay meters carried on recording usage even with a failed battery and these meters at least know how much has been swindled.
    Yanking out the batteries on these sort of meters is a well known fiddle with the occupiers of course pleading ignorance about why the battery is missing
    I can see a huge loss of revenue coming up with smart prepayment revenue s on gas accounts in the future especially when customers move from say BG to some little supplier who do not have enough staff to run a RPU office
    Credit smart gas meter customers will also have problems but at least the supplier is more likely not to lose too much revenue and will accept estimated losses
    Last edited by House Martin; 25-11-2017 at 10:48 PM.
    • Michaelw
    • By Michaelw 25th Nov 17, 9:13 PM
    • 75 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Michaelw
    Theres been a number of reports of failed batteries on smart meters.Although here it relates to mainly the GCHQ involvment there is mention of battery failure it could possibly be a timebomb and if meters' start going down during the main roll out bad publicity could quickly bring an end to that.

    British Gas customer Martin Thompson had a nightmare experience after a smart meter was fitted at his home in Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire.On two occasions – in March last year and January this year – the meter stopped working, turning off the gas on cold days.
    The first failure was blamed on a software fault. The second time, an engineer said the meter’s 3.4 volt lithium battery, which claims a life of 100,000 hours, was flat after just 18,648 hours.

    British Gas insists there is no evidence of a widespread problem with meter batteries.
    But technology expert Nick Hunn, of WiFore Consulting, said: ‘This sort of incident should be ringing alarm bells.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3501918/GCHQ-steps-fear-11bn-smart-meters-installed-millions-homes-hacked-leading-gas-supplies-cut-off.html

    With the prepayment version Southern Gas network informed me it was the frost that kills them when the problem arose after two years.British gas smart display shows nothing related to battery conditon and its impossible to tell if this is relayed back to their systems in the event of a problem beginning to arise.

    It may be that this type of battery simply goes dead,but without any display information its possible to know at first glance.The home owner might not think that the meter is the problem when the supply cuts off and not realise theres a cut off valve involved.Its a here and now problem when this does arise and "free gas" is no argument to no supply.If theres no power to communicate with the gas meter its dead and the supplier cannot release the valve by remote command requiring a prompt callout.As the number of smart meters installed outnumbers old style but similar battery operated prepayment meters suppliers could have a problem with a two year life of the battery.The prepayment version doesn't need a tranceiver connection twenty four hours either.

    People can be left with no heating hot water or cooking gas even worse at a holiday period.


    Last edited by Michaelw; 25-11-2017 at 9:23 PM.
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 25th Nov 17, 9:53 PM
    • 745 Posts
    • 637 Thanks
    House Martin
    I can vouch its pretty rare to find a dud gas smart meter battery. I ve been visiting them for many years now since they were first installed and I ve not seen many "blank screens " which is the indication the battery has died. When this happens if it is smart, the supplier is aware and gets a new battery quickly on its way , if its become dumb then 24 hrs later a new battery can be quickly installed as soon as the occupier contacts the supplier. BG work this efficiently.
    I don`t think that suppliers such as Iresa, Bulb , Green Energy etc will move very quickly somehow. You would be lucky for Iresa s small squad in the call centre to answer the phone.
    As Meterman has commented, batteries in gas prepayment meters have been around for many years, (approx 15 at least), failing sometimes,and leaving customers without heating before smart meters gas meter came on the scene
    When a battery fails its supposed to shut the gas off completely, which is good . It is the lesser of the two evils.
    Electric heating is available for emergency heating, no one can rely on gas central heating boilers to function 100% of the time and they certainly don`t
    .I see very elderly or disabled and infirm customers all the time with prepayment gas meters .I usually recommend them to get the meters exchanged to credit meters so they do not have to rely on someone to go to the paypoints to top up on their behalf.
    Maybe suppliers should think twice in installing these meters at all for these sort of vulnerable customers.They are not suitable
    Last edited by House Martin; 26-11-2017 at 8:39 AM.
    • Michaelw
    • By Michaelw 26th Nov 17, 5:56 PM
    • 75 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Michaelw
    I would be very concered,The previous link to the OVO mentiones that the engineer was not answering the phone was that because of having to attend meters with similar problems already? With these types of meters service is all important and moving outside the big six suppliers I would be worried about these being attended to promply if they fail.The only alternative is a second cell but theres no guarantee that won/t be dead also when required or the best answer the valve will remain open in the event of failure.If attended quickly the loss of free gas would be minimal.

    Batteries are a problem although not the only reason and cause the inconvenience of waiting in for an engineer to attend.In the event of failure the customer should be given the priority not be denied supply
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 26th Nov 17, 8:29 PM
    • 1,071 Posts
    • 1,139 Thanks
    badmemory
    I wonder why it is that the more info I read regarding smart meters & their effectiveness, the more I am thinking no way Jose.

    Why on earth would I exchange reading my meters monthy (what I do now) for a meter that I am unlikely to be able to read & could leave me with no heating when I need it (365 days a year)
    • AndyCF
    • By AndyCF 26th Nov 17, 9:49 PM
    • 194 Posts
    • 504 Thanks
    AndyCF
    The only alternative is a second cell but theres no guarantee that won/t be dead also when required or the best answer the valve will remain open in the event of failure.If attended quickly the loss of free gas would be minimal.

    Batteries are a problem although not the only reason and cause the inconvenience of waiting in for an engineer to attend.In the event of failure the customer should be given the priority not be denied supply
    Originally posted by Michaelw
    That may spur them to be a bit quicker to fix it possibly. Or they may simply know its failed from a certain day/time and just do an estimate use until its repaired, the same way they would I guess do an "estimate use" if for instance it was an older dial or similar and it decided it had wanted to go to the great meter recycler in the sky...

    I wonder why it is that the more info I read regarding smart meters & their effectiveness, the more I am thinking no way Jose.

    Why on earth would I exchange reading my meters monthy (what I do now) for a meter that I am unlikely to be able to read & could leave me with no heating when I need it (365 days a year)
    Originally posted by badmemory
    To be fair they are not too difficult to read, I think 80% of the issue is the lack of information (so it seems) on figuring out how to get a reading. Suppliers are keen to give you a nice book or pdf on the 'IHD' but not a lot on the meter itself it seems.

    The other issue I have noted really is it is not obvious what is being displayed on some of the smart meters and the speed at which it will loop through each section is far far too fast for some, that I can understand.

    Its not actually completely clear on mine what it is actually telling me on some screens, and I'd consider myself reasonably intelligent enough to read the icons and the preceding text. Mind you mine has other issues anyway so that's not too relevant here.

    I can vouch its pretty rare to find a dud gas smart meter battery. I ve been visiting them for many years now since they were first installed and I ve not seen many "blank screens " which is the indication the battery has died. When this happens if it is smart, the supplier is aware and gets a new battery quickly on its way , if its become dumb then 24 hrs later a new battery can be quickly installed as soon as the occupier contacts the supplier.
    Originally posted by House Martin
    It is re-assuring in a way to read that as you're quite likely to know the 'real world situation' as I suspect (similar to reviews in general online) you tend to see more negative than positive simply as if people are happy not that many tend to write this, whereas if there are issues you get more response.
    • brijanhub
    • By brijanhub 29th Nov 17, 10:36 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    brijanhub
    Great reading all the discussions on Smart Meters so let me add my comment. I have had many disagreements with Energy Suppliers over the so-called FIXED Direct Debits as if, like me, you send in meter readings and if your contract starts in the Autumn your account will suddenly be in debit, because you use more energy in the winter. The Energy Companies immediately put up your Direct Debit in spite of the fact that you have budgeted for the whole year and as Spring and Summer come your consumption goes down and you end up all square. Their argument is that FIXED does not mean the monthly payment is FIXED only the Tariff! Smart Meters allow them even more latitude as you have no control over the meter readings. Other comments are quite correct, Smart Meters are not cheap and we all pay for them either by increasing the cost of the first x number of units or by a daily charge. The only people who really benefit from Smart Meters are the Energy Companies but they charge the consumer for the meter on the pretext that it benefits the consumer.
    • sparrowhawk123
    • By sparrowhawk123 29th Nov 17, 7:05 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    sparrowhawk123
    Hi

    What I wanted to do was to bring some of the serious concerns around the installation of Smart Meters to the attention of the public, and as a result hopefully encourage you to do a little research before you give consent to having a Smart Meter installed (as in most cases the energy providers/government don't give full disclosure of all the facts).
    There have been many worrying concerns raised by
    residents in countries where smart meters have already been introduced. Concerns have related to them making people sick, being responsible for causing fires in homes, increasing energy bills for customers (contrary to the sales pitch), exposing our homes to cyber-attacks and invading privacy in our homes. There is a growing body of evidence against the use of smart meters that I would like to encourage you to look into before giving your consent to a Smart Meter.
    You can currently choose to say NO to having one installed, but the Government were making provisions for energy suppliers to force customers to keep smart meters once installed - called the “no backward step” policy.
    Many people have not even heard about smart meters and are not aware of their possible dangers - I find it shocking that the UK government would want to take away the ability for people to choose to get rid of a smart meter if their inherent risks become manifest.
    Below I have provided some links to videos/website that give another viewpoint on Smart Meters, so please try and find some time to do little research of your own (get the information from sources other than the energy companies, even martin lewis doesn't seem to want you to know the full story) and then decide for yourselves if you want a Smart Meter, or perhaps get rid of a smart meter, and change back to an Analogue Meter.
    I am not allowed to copy links apparently so try the following:-


    stopsmartmeters.org.uk


    Have a look at an article on smart meters at mercola.com (takebackyourpower film)


    And search on youtube etc.
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 29th Nov 17, 7:28 PM
    • 3,189 Posts
    • 1,907 Thanks
    matelodave
    another load of rubbish from another conspiricy theorist
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

289Posts Today

1,682Users online

Martin's Twitter