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    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 30th Oct 17, 5:22 PM
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    edinburgher
    The Edcawber Principle
    • #1
    • 30th Oct 17, 5:22 PM
    The Edcawber Principle 30th Oct 17 at 5:22 PM
    I think I promised a new and improved positive diary earlier on in the summer

    I'll try my best to keep it short and sweet, (unlike my credit card statements). Cutting a long story short, after renovating the house and an accidental car purchase (hey, it could've been a house!) we are probably better candidates for DFW

    We're now left with a much more relaxing house (we just finished our bedroom), a new car and £20,000 in credit card debt

    The new job goes fairly well, all things considered and our budget is starting to balance on a month-to-month basis. Basically I've said yes to everything, which is lovely, but immature. Mrs E realises the lie of the land and is supporting efforts to get back on an even keel. I'm eb@ying, saving cashback and making overpayments every Monday.

    DD and Mrs E are doing fabby, DD is the apple of our eye and remains chatty, affectionate and madcap
Page 11
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 8th Jan 18, 9:08 AM
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    edinburgher
    £347.88 paid off a CC, is it sad that I'm actually starting to like Mondays because that's the day I pay the credit card debt down?

    £100 invested for DD, she will end up rich at this rate

    She has now passed £5k, which is nearly 70% higher than my pessimistic assumption of £100/month for her nest egg. I am not bragging on her behalf, but I am really pleased at what we have achieved as providing for her future is one of our biggest concerns. She is now a hair's breadth (inflation adjusted) away from receiving the sum total of my Post Office savings account at age 16. It's about the only bit of our financial planning that is going to plan.
    Last edited by edinburgher; 08-01-2018 at 11:40 AM.
    • Karmacat
    • By Karmacat 8th Jan 18, 3:06 PM
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    Karmacat
    That's amazing, Ed, well done! It's hard to imagine what public services will be like when she's my age ... at least the bump in the baby boomer population will have ironed out by that stage, hopefully (because there's a secondary one, isn't there, when the baby boomers had children?) so she won't be on the receiving end of any focussed spending horrors.

    I started to write more, and found it quite distracting, so let's just stick to "Congratulations"!
    Retired August 2016
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 8th Jan 18, 4:08 PM
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    edinburgher
    Thanks KC. I feel a renewed sense of urgency to provide her with opportunities when I realise that there is officially no chance of me swanning off into the sunset at 40

    Well... the £2.50/month for the lottery syndicate might pay off
    • AlexLK
    • By AlexLK 8th Jan 18, 7:43 PM
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    AlexLK
    We used to save for our son. At one point my wife and I were in debt with no savings and he had £15,000 when he turned 3. He still has that but we have not added to it. I hope it will fund a restoration through his teenage years to give him a nice classic car (MGB, Triumph Spitfire or something similar) and a project he complete with Mrs. K. and I. I can't say I feel any guilt over not saving more for him, to be honest.

    Will let him earn an income from family investments when he is older but I will want him to put some work in for it. Used to want to tell him he didn't need to work at all and felt terrible I was not the one to have achieved that for him. Now I feel very different. I think he needs to work and learn the value of money. Something I didn't achieve for a very long time (perhaps still do not fully appreciate how difficult it can be for some people). I've thought things were terrible for my wife and I over the years (convinced myself news stories about poverty in Britain = my situation) but started to come to the realisation I'm actually in quite a privileged position and annoyed MSE'ers could see what I couldn't.
    Saved £11,000 in 2015, £9,800 in 2016.
    From a £32,000 debt on 2/9/2013 to debt free on 12/1/2015.
    • ZTD
    • By ZTD 8th Jan 18, 8:36 PM
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    ZTD
    That's amazing, Ed, well done! It's hard to imagine what public services will be like when she's my age ... at least the bump in the baby boomer population will have ironed out by that stage, hopefully (because there's a secondary one, isn't there, when the baby boomers had children?) so she won't be on the receiving end of any focussed spending horrors.
    Originally posted by Karmacat
    A secondary one, and a tertiary one, and I'm not sure if that's a quaternary one at the bottom, or if the little "waist" is because teenagers die at an alarmingly high rate.



    So Ed, is there any reason why you're saving £5K while still having debts? Or is that just a nominal "accountancy" £5K?
    "Follow the money!" - Deepthroat (AKA William Mark Felt Sr - Associate Director of the FBI)
    "We were born and raised in a summer haze." Adele 'Someone like you.'
    "Blowing your mind, 'cause you know what you'll find, when you're looking for things in the sky."
    OMD 'Julia's Song'
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 9th Jan 18, 9:29 AM
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    edinburgher
    We used to save for our son. At one point my wife and I were in debt with no savings and he had £15,000 when he turned 3. He still has that but we have not added to it. I hope it will fund a restoration through his teenage years to give him a nice classic car (MGB, Triumph Spitfire or something similar) and a project he complete with Mrs. K. and I.
    Originally posted by AlexLK
    I suspect that DD will need to use her investments for either education or a house deposit, but it will be hers to do what she pleases with it once she reaches a point in her life where she's reasonably well behaved with money (no plans to tell her this money exists).

    So Ed, is there any reason why you're saving £5K while still having debts? Or is that just a nominal "accountancy" £5K?
    Originally posted by ZTD
    Yes. 1) About a third to half? of the money has been gifts. I've invested every penny she has been gifted since birth. 2) The rest has come from child benefits. Apart from £2k or so in one time costs and intangibles such as moving to a house with more bedrooms (our choice), DD isn't too costly yet I've tracked spending since she was born after reading all those horrific "a child costs £250k!" clickbait articles and she spends about £115/month in baby stuff. Sorry, rambling. In short, I've always been of the opinion that CB was 'her money', as it wouldn't be there if not for her. I'm sure a lot of people probably view that as very twatty and middle class, but that's how I feel

    Our debts arose from both a structural deficit and short-term factors, neither of which were DD's fault.

    The investments are actual and I would consider using them to pay down debts if they would wipe out the debt, but not if they were just another drop in the ocean. One option would be to sell her holdings down to one unit and then repay her over the next 1x years. This would make for far lower monthly payments, but we'd expose ourselves to quite a bit of risk as we would be morally obliged to match the growth of the investments. So if a magical super bull market appears because we crack the secret of limitless free energy or something, we'd be gubbed
    Last edited by edinburgher; 09-01-2018 at 9:33 AM.
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 9th Jan 18, 9:50 AM
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    edinburgher
    £5.60 paid off CC (Mr M's have a cracking offer at the moment where you get £6.25 in points per £50 Am@zon gift card purchased). As we spend something like £1,000/year with them, I tend to stock up and mark the vouchers as grocery spend so that I can save/pay down debt with the nominal saving. Expecting another 5 vouchers or so to spit out when I go back this evening
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 9th Jan 18, 12:01 PM
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    edinburgher
    Just found out that my 'mentor' from my last job died at the weekend, the poor chap only managed to enjoy his (early) retirement for a few short years. These sorts of sad stories certainly strengthen the resolve to not want to be in the office any longer than necessary
    • Karmacat
    • By Karmacat 9th Jan 18, 12:05 PM
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    Karmacat
    Love what you're doing with the gifts and CB.

    I wish I had a Morrison's nearby - I *did*, a closed pub became a local Morrison's for a while, but that closed too. Now its finally a mega expensive convenenience store, right next to the old fashioned convenience store ... nothing bargainous from either.



    ETA - just saw your post about your mentor, Ed, sorry to hear that. Yep, it comes to us all, but I'm going to make it wait as long as I can.
    Retired August 2016
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 9th Jan 18, 12:13 PM
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    edinburgher
    One of the good things about being a few miles away from a major city is the ridiculous amount of supermarkets! I can think of 4 Mr M's within a 15 minute drive off the top of my head...

    I am pretty sure that mentor had a long, fun-filled retirement full of golf, sunshine and church activities planned. Unfortunately he was one of the unlucky ones who developed something quick, nasty and terminal. He was a lovely, patient guy, but a bit of a dreamer who never quite saw his plans come to fruition. It's probably negative, but I think that's why I found it so easy to relate to him? He had a million bright ideas but was all too human when it came to delivering them.

    If I could only acquire his gift for patience I suspect I'd be a happy man!
    • Brodiebobs
    • By Brodiebobs 9th Jan 18, 1:56 PM
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    Brodiebobs
    Mr E, I've just 're-found you' i thought you'd gone AWOL subscribed and will catch up with your adventures
    Addicted to MSE.
    Overpaying mortgage for a better debt free life!
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 9th Jan 18, 2:15 PM
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    edinburgher
    Mr E, I've just 're-found you' i thought you'd gone AWOL subscribed and will catch up with your adventures
    Originally posted by Brodiebobs
    Hi Brodiebobs

    I went AWOL for a while, but now it's largely me vs. the credit cards.
    • ZTD
    • By ZTD 9th Jan 18, 7:47 PM
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    ZTD
    Yes. 1) About a third to half? of the money has been gifts. I've invested every penny she has been gifted since birth. 2) The rest has come from child benefits. Apart from £2k or so in one time costs and intangibles such as moving to a house with more bedrooms (our choice), DD isn't too costly yet I've tracked spending since she was born after reading all those horrific "a child costs £250k!" clickbait articles and she spends about £115/month in baby stuff. Sorry, rambling. In short, I've always been of the opinion that CB was 'her money', as it wouldn't be there if not for her. I'm sure a lot of people probably view that as very twatty and middle class, but that's how I feel
    Originally posted by edinburgher
    If you're counting every penny, then your attitude is different to when you're not. It's horses for courses, and both attitudes are correct.

    Our debts arose from both a structural deficit and short-term factors, neither of which were DD's fault.

    The investments are actual and I would consider using them to pay down debts if they would wipe out the debt, but not if they were just another drop in the ocean. One option would be to sell her holdings down to one unit and then repay her over the next 1x years. This would make for far lower monthly payments, but we'd expose ourselves to quite a bit of risk as we would be morally obliged to match the growth of the investments.
    Originally posted by edinburgher
    Would you also feel yourself morally obliged to match losses?

    So if a magical super bull market appears because we crack the secret of limitless free energy or something, we'd be gubbed
    Originally posted by edinburgher
    Magical super bull markets also appear for other (more common) reasons.

    Would you see no value in offering her a good (better than savings) but risk-free interest rate?
    "Follow the money!" - Deepthroat (AKA William Mark Felt Sr - Associate Director of the FBI)
    "We were born and raised in a summer haze." Adele 'Someone like you.'
    "Blowing your mind, 'cause you know what you'll find, when you're looking for things in the sky."
    OMD 'Julia's Song'
    • wishingthemortgaheaway
    • By wishingthemortgaheaway 9th Jan 18, 8:45 PM
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    wishingthemortgaheaway
    I too account for little one's cb separately in ynab.
    £30 a month goes into his savings account,
    £50 a month (well every 4 weeks) gets spent on things for the heat and now, swimming lessons, and shoes mostly. Some toys. At the moments I'm nearly 'a month ahead' having not spent very much over the Christmas period. I would love to save more for him, but if I did he wouldn't be able to do the things he does now.
    The 100 payment countdown (each payment = £400) 2018 Starts at 13/100 o/s £34,750.
    Term Mortgage free date: October 2029 Current mortgage free date: April 2025 March 2025
    MFW 2018 Challenge Member #162 0/£2,500
    • Brodiebobs
    • By Brodiebobs 9th Jan 18, 10:02 PM
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    • 3,219 Thanks
    Brodiebobs
    Hi Brodiebobs

    I went AWOL for a while, but now it's largely me vs. the credit cards.
    Originally posted by edinburgher
    Just caught up, lovely to hear about your little one, and she appears to be much older than I remember and looks like you're making light work of the credit cards already.

    In regards to savings, we too save our CB but split it 50:50 between our two. Unless the markets go wild in the next few years, it will probably only be enough for a small car, driving lessons or a couple of terms at uni, but more than both of us got
    Addicted to MSE.
    Overpaying mortgage for a better debt free life!
    • AlexLK
    • By AlexLK 9th Jan 18, 10:20 PM
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    AlexLK
    Sorry to hear about your colleague, Ed. Sounds like he is gone far too soon.

    To be honest, I'm not sure retirement is all it's imagined to be. I've spent a lot of time not "working" in the sense most of us are talking about and have plenty of time consuming hobbies which I spend my free time doing. Really quite pleased to be working in the sense we're talking about at the moment. The work is interesting, challenging and gives the routine I needed in my life. Not finding it is impacting on dealing with the other work or my interests, though will likely find I have less time for cars in the summer. My parents retired well after the state retirement age and have no financial barriers to doing whatever they fancy but will help me out as and when. They hate being left out of the loop and still have interest.

    Do you not have a fixed age in mind for releasing the money to your daughter, Ed? Whenever the conversation about children's finances comes up on MSE it does make me think. At the moment, I plan to buy a house for my son to live in whilst at university. He will have to pay the money back but I'm not so keen to tell him to borrow money from a bank and pay interest. What he does with the property will be up to him. This likely seems ridiculous to everyone on here but from a personal point of view paying interest to the bank is a better choice than having to listen to lectures from my parents. However, paying interest still irks me so I don't want it for my son when he is older.
    Saved £11,000 in 2015, £9,800 in 2016.
    From a £32,000 debt on 2/9/2013 to debt free on 12/1/2015.
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 9th Jan 18, 10:29 PM
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    edinburgher
    Would you also feel yourself morally obliged to match losses?

    Magical super bull markets also appear for other (more common) reasons.

    Would you see no value in offering her a good (better than savings) but risk-free interest rate?
    Originally posted by ZTD
    1. As in provide a floor for her investments? Definitely not, because a) !!!! happens and b) I don't see how I'd even calculate that - never let the amount fall below its maximum value?

    2. I meant a magical super bull market on top of the one we're already experiencing! I think this bull has legs for now.

    3. I think that would be unfair to her as there are no guarantees in life bar the love of your parents, death and taxes. I fully expect to see multiple recessions before she comes of age, it's part of life in our economic system. I am confident that investing is the right route.

    I too account for little one's cb separately in ynab.
    £30 a month goes into his savings account,
    £50 a month (well every 4 weeks) gets spent on things for the heat and now, swimming lessons, and shoes mostly. Some toys. At the moments I'm nearly 'a month ahead' having not spent very much over the Christmas period. I would love to save more for him, but if I did he wouldn't be able to do the things he does now.
    Originally posted by wishingthemortgaheaway
    You are putting something by for his future and that is more than most people manage, my little sister has a very similar approach, splitting money between savings and activities. Mrs E and I are very privileged and lucky to be able to afford to invest all of the CB (current credit card debt aside, which was down to our own impatience when moving house and renovating).

    Just caught up, lovely to hear about your little one, and she appears to be much older than I remember and looks like you're making light work of the credit cards already.

    In regards to savings, we too save our CB but split it 50:50 between our two. Unless the markets go wild in the next few years, it will probably only be enough for a small car, driving lessons or a couple of terms at uni, but more than both of us got
    Thanks Brodiebobs - DD is a star

    I would do the same if we had 2. My little sister has had the dilemma of what to do for the younger of her children, as big brother has a head start on his pot. How did you address that, or do you have twins/children very close in age?

    To be honest, I'm not sure retirement is all it's imagined to be. I've spent a lot of time not "working" in the sense most of us are talking about and have plenty of time consuming hobbies which I spend my free time doing. Really quite pleased to be working in the sense we're talking about at the moment. The work is interesting, challenging and gives the routine I needed in my life. Not finding it is impacting on dealing with the other work or my interests, though will likely find I have less time for cars in the summer. My parents retired well after the state retirement age and have no financial barriers to doing whatever they fancy but will help me out as and when. They hate being left out of the loop and still have interest.

    Do you not have a fixed age in mind for releasing the money to your daughter, Ed? Whenever the conversation about children's finances comes up on MSE it does make me think. At the moment, I plan to buy a house for my son to live in whilst at university. He will have to pay the money back but I'm not so keen to tell him to borrow money from a bank and pay interest. What he does with the property will be up to him. This likely seems ridiculous to everyone on here but from a personal point of view paying interest to the bank is a better choice than having to listen to lectures from my parents. However, paying interest still irks me so I don't want it for my son when he is older.
    Thanks Alex, he will be sorely missed.

    What exactly do you do these days? I'm a little confused! Are you managing properties for your parents. I ask as when I dip into your diary, you're normally pottering about on a project, planning something fun for your son and generally not talking about 'work' in the sense that most of us think of it.

    If you buy a house for your son, do you not worry that you risk perpetuating the sort of relationship that your parents have with you and that you have worked so hard to break away from? I know one person whose parent bought a house for their child to rent. At every visit, the parent makes snide comments about their 'investment' and generally casts aspersions about the ability of the person's spouse to provide for their family. You could say that this is all down to the individual, but I can't see how 'buying someone a house' is a thing if they have to pay it back. Also, the way you describe it, it sounds like you'd be choosing the house. So you choose a house that you like, force him to buy it off you and expect him to be grateful?

    I'm playing devil's advocate here Alex, but a gift with reservation is not a gift.

    No fixed age for DD to get her nest egg. Various factors such as reaching the age of majority/choosing a career or education/wanting or not wanting a house/relationship status will be considered. Choosing differently to what we might like will at no point preclude her from getting the money, we just want to see what direction her life is taking before throwing her a pile of money.
    Last edited by edinburgher; 09-01-2018 at 10:43 PM.
    • AlexLK
    • By AlexLK 9th Jan 18, 11:12 PM
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    AlexLK
    Well, you've likely gathered the teaching was an absolute disaster so got out of that and around the same time Mrs. K. asked if I'd be able to help out someone she has worked with in the past which resulted in him offering me a full time position working mainly with historic / listed / old buildings which need remedial works / are being put to other uses etc. So, I actually have a "proper job" for the first time since before my son was born. Also managing our rental properties and bought another property which we're converting into two.

    I suppose buying him a house was the wrong way to phrase it rather I should have said lending him the money to buy himself a house but at that age I'm fairly sure my wife and I would be involved to some extent or another. I'd be happy for him to choose so long as it was structurally sound. No desire to berate a future daughter-in-law based upon her family's financial situation either. No desire to give him a large sum of money (meant for setting up in life / house purchase) as I know how badly that can end as at that age I couldn't be sensible and I'm not going to gamble he will be. No desire to fund rent for property as would need to happen if nowhere was bought.

    Sounds the right thing to do re. your daughter. I say that as someone who received £250,000 when I went to university. Parents didn't disclose what I was to spend the money on but weren't happy it was gone in 5 years and were bailing me out of over £60,000 of debt 2 years after that. It was meant to set me up in life, enjoy uni without having to worry and buy a decent house at the end which it would have back then. Would rather not disclose what it was spent on. Only learnt how to live to a budget after paying my own debts off. Not that I think your daughter or my son would be that stupid.
    Saved £11,000 in 2015, £9,800 in 2016.
    From a £32,000 debt on 2/9/2013 to debt free on 12/1/2015.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 10th Jan 18, 1:50 AM
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    • 1,323 Thanks
    badmemory
    Not that I think your daughter or my son would be that stupid.
    Originally posted by AlexLK
    The reason they wouldn't is because their parents (as in both sets of) taught them the value of money, it's uses & what could go wrong. Would either of you, knowing what you know, give an 18 yr old unrestricted/undifined access to £250k? I certainly wouldn't. At least not unless I could provide that every year ad infinitum. Any parent should know this is just asking for trouble.
    • edinburgher
    • By edinburgher 10th Jan 18, 8:28 AM
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    • 57,002 Thanks
    edinburgher
    Well, you've likely gathered the teaching was an absolute disaster so got out of that and around the same time Mrs. K. asked if I'd be able to help out someone she has worked with in the past which resulted in him offering me a full time position working mainly with historic / listed / old buildings which need remedial works / are being put to other uses etc. So, I actually have a "proper job" for the first time since before my son was born. Also managing our rental properties and bought another property which we're converting into two.

    I suppose buying him a house was the wrong way to phrase it rather I should have said lending him the money to buy himself a house but at that age I'm fairly sure my wife and I would be involved to some extent or another. I'd be happy for him to choose so long as it was structurally sound. No desire to berate a future daughter-in-law based upon her family's financial situation either. No desire to give him a large sum of money (meant for setting up in life / house purchase) as I know how badly that can end as at that age I couldn't be sensible and I'm not going to gamble he will be. No desire to fund rent for property as would need to happen if nowhere was bought.

    Sounds the right thing to do re. your daughter. I say that as someone who received £250,000 when I went to university. Parents didn't disclose what I was to spend the money on but weren't happy it was gone in 5 years and were bailing me out of over £60,000 of debt 2 years after that. It was meant to set me up in life, enjoy uni without having to worry and buy a decent house at the end which it would have back then. Would rather not disclose what it was spent on. Only learnt how to live to a budget after paying my own debts off. Not that I think your daughter or my son would be that stupid.
    Originally posted by AlexLK
    The job sounds great Alex - you're working with something that you are obviously passionate about - there is no shame that teaching wasn't for you. I think you have taken the best bits of your parents' obvious desire to create a human legacy and combined that with the obvious importance that you attach to our historical 'legacy' to pick up a career that you could be very happy with Do you think that teaching was perhaps something you felt that you 'had' to do in an attempt to 'give something back'? Because everyone contributes differently

    Ps. Buying a house might avoid paying interest to a bank, but there's an opportunity cost to tying up a large sum of capital in the property that could potentially be invested more profitably elsewhere. So unless you find a property that is a great investment (for example, one that you renovate with sweat equity), you may just be trading one cost for another

    The reason they wouldn't is because their parents (as in both sets of) taught them the value of money, it's uses & what could go wrong. Would either of you, knowing what you know, give an 18 yr old unrestricted/undifined access to £250k? I certainly wouldn't. At least not unless I could provide that every year ad infinitum. Any parent should know this is just asking for trouble.
    Originally posted by badmemory
    I wouldn't! It's also worth remembering (sorry Alex), that this was quite a while ago, it would probably be a lot more than £250k now
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