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    • Darrenm325
    • By Darrenm325 28th Oct 17, 10:41 AM
    • 32Posts
    • 6Thanks
    Darrenm325
    Or wants money from family please help
    • #1
    • 28th Oct 17, 10:41 AM
    Or wants money from family please help 28th Oct 17 at 10:41 AM
    Could any one help please
    I was declared bankrucpt in Aug this year
    Last year sept 2016 I paid my dad Money that I owed him of 5 grad for money he let me over the years with my divorce and back street loan lenders who I was in real trouble with,
    When I filled the forms out and when I had my interview with the OR I did state this and the OR said my dad would have to write to conferm this was true to the OR
    Any way my dad has received a letter from Clark and Wilmot solisters asking him to pay them the money
    As you can imagine my dad has gone mental at me we have had a big fall out as he no longer has the money and says if they want the money then I will have to find it
    Some one please HELP
Page 1
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 28th Oct 17, 10:55 AM
    • 11,539 Posts
    • 8,674 Thanks
    fatbelly
    • #2
    • 28th Oct 17, 10:55 AM
    • #2
    • 28th Oct 17, 10:55 AM
    You're not going to be able to 'find' money while you're in a bankruptcy.

    Your Dad has had a demand for 5k - if he cannot pay it then he needs to take advice about his own situation - he could try National Debtline or CAB for starters.

    The OR is following their internal guidelines - in their eyes you made a preferential payment to one creditor and they are seeking to get it back to distribute to all your creditors, after their fees.

    As this happened 11 months before your bankruptcy there is an argument that you did not know you were insolvent, had no intention of going bankrupt and your decision to repay this money was not an intention to 'prefer' your dad.

    However, 'Where the person who benefitted from the preference is a connected party or an associate, then it is presumed (unless the contrary can be shown) that the debtor was influenced by a desire to prefer '

    So this really depends on your Dad's own situation now as to how far the OR is going to push it - he needs advice.
    • Darrenm325
    • By Darrenm325 28th Oct 17, 11:02 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Darrenm325
    • #3
    • 28th Oct 17, 11:02 AM
    • #3
    • 28th Oct 17, 11:02 AM
    If needs be I have to go to back street lender or do something My Dad has gone mental
    He has not got all the money to give them and he is worried that now his credit file is affected and he going to be take. To court
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 28th Oct 17, 11:14 AM
    • 11,539 Posts
    • 8,674 Thanks
    fatbelly
    • #4
    • 28th Oct 17, 11:14 AM
    • #4
    • 28th Oct 17, 11:14 AM
    If needs be I have to go to back street lender or do something My Dad has gone mental
    He has not got all the money to give them and he is worried that now his credit file is affected and he going to be take. To court
    Originally posted by Darrenm325
    Darren - can I ask you not to do anything in haste.

    You've come to the right place. There are people who post here who have more experience than me with bankruptcy.

    Although I am a debt adviser with the CAB, I work in an area where not many people have debts over 20k so I don't do that many bankruptcies. But if your Dad genuinely cannot pay then that is what I think he must tell them.

    See what others say over the weekend.
    • Darrenm325
    • By Darrenm325 28th Oct 17, 11:20 AM
    • 32 Posts
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    Darrenm325
    • #5
    • 28th Oct 17, 11:20 AM
    • #5
    • 28th Oct 17, 11:20 AM
    Thanks for your advice fatbelly
    I don’t think I be invited for my roast dinner tomorrow put it that way
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 28th Oct 17, 3:06 PM
    • 36,059 Posts
    • 152,307 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #6
    • 28th Oct 17, 3:06 PM
    • #6
    • 28th Oct 17, 3:06 PM
    As this happened 11 months before your bankruptcy there is an argument that you did not know you were insolvent, had no intention of going bankrupt and your decision to repay this money was not an intention to 'prefer' your dad.
    This is the argument you must make with the Official Receiver. Gather your evidence. How likely was it 11 months before bankruptcy that you would need to actually go bankrupt?
    • debt doctor
    • By debt doctor 28th Oct 17, 4:35 PM
    • 4,170 Posts
    • 5,834 Thanks
    debt doctor
    • #7
    • 28th Oct 17, 4:35 PM
    • #7
    • 28th Oct 17, 4:35 PM
    Hi,


    The first letter is a fishing exercise. Clarke Wilmot send out a letter asking for the money back - and if they get it - they says thanks very much.
    If they receive a reply that says I haven't got the money any more then the IS have to weigh up whether it is worth paying CW to pursue the case. Actually £5K was previously the threshold below which it was not considered viable to take the case forward past the original demand letter, but since CW got the recovery contract back from Moon Beever, they do recoveries on a no win no fee basis.
    This means that the risk of being out of pocket has shifted from the IS to CW, so now CW have to weigh up the likely hood of recovering the money and getting their fee paid.


    First response needs to be from dad saying that he doesn't have the money - or only has some of it. Repaying say, £1500 could well make the difference between recovery action or not, but in the first instance a letter stating that he doesn't have the money.


    I don't know dad's circumstances - does he own a house? Does he have a high income?


    Any letter should say that the money was lent and repaid in good faith, (possibly that bankruptcy was not being considered at the time) and that the money has been spent on normal household expenses.


    If dad does not have much in the way of spare income it needs to be stated. In particular if dad claims any means tested benefits this should be stated.


    The IS via CW will always hold the "we may take action through the court" above you (just like IPA's) but it always has to be viable.


    Things not to do are to borrow money from people who charge a fortune and assault you if you don't pay. Does you dad really want you to do this?


    Your dads credit rating cannot be affected by this unless it becomes the subject of a court judgement.


    DD.
    Debt Doctor, Debt caseworker, Citizens' Advice Bureau .
    Impartial debt advice services: Citizens Advice Bureau Find your local CAB *** National Debtline - Tel: 0808 808 4000*** BSC No. 100 ***
    • Debtor80
    • By Debtor80 28th Oct 17, 8:01 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Debtor80
    • #8
    • 28th Oct 17, 8:01 PM
    • #8
    • 28th Oct 17, 8:01 PM
    Surely these Solitors are just trying it on, the father must just advise them "Without Prejidice" that the money was used to settle a loan shark debt, the OR was advised of same as a courtesy and full disclosure, but at the time the debtor had no idea they were going to be insolvent.

    Would they not have to take Court action to get any liability of debt to the father?
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 28th Oct 17, 8:19 PM
    • 11,539 Posts
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    fatbelly
    • #9
    • 28th Oct 17, 8:19 PM
    • #9
    • 28th Oct 17, 8:19 PM

    Would they not have to take Court action to get any liability of debt to the father?
    Originally posted by Debtor80
    Yes, so they need lots of reasons why that would not work.
    • Darrenm325
    • By Darrenm325 29th Oct 17, 8:44 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Darrenm325
    So is there any thing I can do or do I just have to leave it up to my dad to write the letters and sort it
    I was honest with the or I never planned to go bankrucpt nearly a year ago and seems unfair that the money I owed my dad witch I have paid back to him he now has to pay to Clark an wilmot
    My dad has made clear that any money he has to pay I will have to repay and tbh I donít blame him
    • Darrenm325
    • By Darrenm325 30th Oct 17, 9:40 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Darrenm325
    Is there any thing I can do to help Dad at all
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 30th Oct 17, 9:52 AM
    • 2,571 Posts
    • 1,809 Thanks
    BoGoF
    Where did the money come from to pay your dad?
    • Darrenm325
    • By Darrenm325 30th Oct 17, 10:08 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Darrenm325
    I sold a property had a small amount of equity so I payed my dad and I payed a back street lender
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 30th Oct 17, 10:14 AM
    • 12,471 Posts
    • 11,863 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Is there any thing I can do to help Dad at all
    Originally posted by Darrenm325
    Follow the advice given by Debt Doctor above.

    These things can always be challenged.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 30th Oct 17, 10:56 AM
    • 36,059 Posts
    • 152,307 Thanks
    silvercar
    Is there any thing I can do to help Dad at all
    Originally posted by Darrenm325
    You can advise him on what to reply to the enquiries.

    It is important that he doesn't agree and return the money and that he doesn't ignore the letters. If necessary draft a letter for him to send.

    My dad has made clear that any money he has to pay I will have to repay and tbh I donít blame him
    You won't be in a position to do that for a while and even if you were, it is against the bankrutpcy terms that you make him a preferential creditor. You need to get him to understand that you paid him back in good faith and that he needs to fight this with your support. United you win, divided you fall etc.
    • Darrenm325
    • By Darrenm325 30th Oct 17, 10:57 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Darrenm325
    Follow the advice given by Debt Doctor above.

    These things can always be challenged.
    Originally posted by sourcrates
    Thank you I have just rang c&w and the or office they wonít discuss with me so I will try to call my dad and get him to give them a bell
    • Darrenm325
    • By Darrenm325 30th Oct 17, 11:05 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Darrenm325
    You can advise him on what to reply to the enquiries.

    It is important that he doesn't agree and return the money and that he doesn't ignore the letters. If necessary draft a letter for him to send.



    You won't be in a position to do that for a while and even if you were, it is against the bankrutpcy terms that you make him a preferential creditor. You need to get him to understand that you paid him back in good faith and that he needs to fight this with your support. United you win, divided you fall etc.
    Originally posted by silvercar
    Not really talking to me ATM
    I will try to call again later as I think your right we need to work together
    • Darrenm325
    • By Darrenm325 31st Oct 17, 12:07 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Darrenm325
    Need more help anyone
    Hi,


    The first letter is a fishing exercise. Clarke Wilmot send out a letter asking for the money back - and if they get it - they says thanks very much.
    If they receive a reply that says I haven't got the money any more then the IS have to weigh up whether it is worth paying CW to pursue the case. Actually £5K was previously the threshold below which it was not considered viable to take the case forward past the original demand letter, but since CW got the recovery contract back from Moon Beever, they do recoveries on a no win no fee basis.
    This means that the risk of being out of pocket has shifted from the IS to CW, so now CW have to weigh up the likely hood of recovering the money and getting their fee paid.


    First response needs to be from dad saying that he doesn't have the money - or only has some of it. Repaying say, £1500 could well make the difference between recovery action or not, but in the first instance a letter stating that he doesn't have the money.


    I don't know dad's circumstances - does he own a house? Does he have a high income?


    Any letter should say that the money was lent and repaid in good faith, (possibly that bankruptcy was not being considered at the time) and that the money has been spent on normal household expenses.


    If dad does not have much in the way of spare income it needs to be stated. In particular if dad claims any means tested benefits this should be stated.


    The IS via CW will always hold the "we may take action through the court" above you (just like IPA's) but it always has to be viable.


    Things not to do are to borrow money from people who charge a fortune and assault you if you don't pay. Does you dad really want you to do this?


    Your dads credit rating cannot be affected by this unless it becomes the subject of a court judgement.


    DD.
    Originally posted by debt doctor
    A update my dad has rang and spoke to Clark and wilmot today they are saying that he has to pay the full amount
    So my morning has been a very stressful one to say the least
    Is it worth me or my dad ringing the OR to try and sort this
    It has come to the point now where things are getting a little nasty between me and my dad
    I need some ones help elce things are going to get a lot worse
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 31st Oct 17, 1:51 PM
    • 11,539 Posts
    • 8,674 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Hi - me again

    That was always going to be the response from them to a phone call. And if you ring the OR they will just say to talk to CW.

    What he needs to do is send a letter, not saying he won't pay but that he can't pay, or at least can't pay all of it.

    It may be helpful if he can send a financial statement with it. As DD said they will be having to weigh up whether it is worth getting a court order against him. He may be able to get help from CAB or if you want we can have a look at the letter. PM one of us if there's identifiable detail in it.
    • Darrenm325
    • By Darrenm325 31st Oct 17, 3:09 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Darrenm325
    Hi - me again

    That was always going to be the response from them to a phone call. And if you ring the OR they will just say to talk to CW.

    What he needs to do is send a letter, not saying he won't pay but that he can't pay, or at least can't pay all of it.

    It may be helpful if he can send a financial statement with it. As DD said they will be having to weigh up whether it is worth getting a court order against him. He may be able to get help from CAB or if you want we can have a look at the letter. PM one of us if there's identifiable detail in it.
    Originally posted by fatbelly
    [QUOTE=fatbelly;73340929]Hi - me again

    It a court order is made I deffo wonít get my invite for xmas (joking aside) I think he may offer to pay £1500 witch I will have to repay him once my bankrucpty has ended
    This is becoming very stress full
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