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  • FIRST POST
    • worn out
    • By worn out 27th Oct 17, 9:58 AM
    • 84Posts
    • 10Thanks
    worn out
    parking in London
    • #1
    • 27th Oct 17, 9:58 AM
    parking in London 27th Oct 17 at 9:58 AM
    Has anyone come across LCP Parking services Ltd ? They have 5 car parks in London and are chasing me for £100 after I lost at POPLA.

    I made a mistake venturing into a shopping area car park thinking it had a free period - it didn't, my mistake.

    Since then I've read both the Beavis case(free parking period) and the Cargius case (paid for parking)..The latter case basically said Cargius had paid £4 for 4 hours and thus the parking charge wasn't the sole source of income for parking Eye, and the charge was a penalty.

    In my case LCP charge £8 for 4hours, have the 5 car parks (which are unmanned) and a central admin office.My thinking is the bulk of LCP income is from parking fees or contract parking and therefor the 'estimate of loss' cannot be £35 perhour for dealing with my contavention (a total cost to them of over £100). I say this because their staff costs and overheads are covered by their main income revenues from the 5 car parks, and they make a healthy profit - last year the directors paid themselves £55,000 in dividends on top of their salary and pension costs.

    The Cargius case seems to support my argument it is a penalty and not a true estimate of cost. (It says on the car park signs £100 for contravention of the T&Cs).

    is this worth defending on this basis do you think ?

    A second argument I have is there doesn't seem to be any planning approval for the signs or ANPR cameras , an FOI to the local council failed to come up with any application. I'm still following this line with the council to double check there aren't exemptions or if having been there for 20 years it's somehow implied approval ? Anyone familiar with planning regs ?

    Thank you for reading.
Page 2
    • worn out
    • By worn out 3rd Jan 18, 6:02 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    worn out
    Nope. We would not say that. A daft, embarrassingly anti-consumer, unreasonable & unfair argument, spouted by desperate PPCs and their Trade Bodies. It's defendable.



    Same as this case then, only this person has a PE PCN:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5761491

    I would not be concerned about defending either case, clearly you need some minutes on arrival and have not agreed to any contract on the threshold of the car park site! And if you are allowed AT LEAST ten minutes to leave, then clearly 11 minutes all told is more than reasonable and indicates the driver cannot have outstayed actual parking time when the 10 minutes 'leaving' grace time is taken off. And never mind the other argument, that the exist camera may not be synched with the entrance timer and/or synched with any separate PDT machine...which would only need to be ONE minute out!
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    As the car park signs state ALL parking time is to be paid for...and the BPA advise operator members NOT to advertise the grace periods - then any person 'nipping in' for a quick 5 or 10 minute shop is paying unnecessarily... it's clearly a money making scam.
    • worn out
    • By worn out 3rd Jan 18, 10:09 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    worn out
    While the PPCs dont' advertise the grace periods drivers have, someone arriving, passing through the ANPR , then parking..reading the signs and maybe having a natter before slipping in an hours worth of cash...check their watch and believe they have an hour to get back. They haven't because in that situation the ANPR's are ticking, and it's those and not the parking meters that determine an overstay. The driver, blissfully unaware until the PCN arrives and they realise then that even with 10 minutes 'grace'....it'll cost £50.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Jan 18, 10:13 PM
    • 52,911 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    Yes we know, that's normal for this worthless industry.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • worn out
    • By worn out 4th Jan 18, 1:52 PM
    • 84 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    worn out
    So is it reasonable to state a driver wasn't 'over-parked' but simply wasn't allowed long enough by the 'grace period'...which he either didn't even know about or didn't know what the limit was because it wasn't mentioned on any of the signs nor on the T&Cs ?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Jan 18, 10:14 PM
    • 52,911 Posts
    • 66,442 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    So is it reasonable to state a driver wasn't 'over-parked' but simply wasn't allowed long enough by the 'grace period'...
    Yes. Stop there.

    which he either didn't even know about or didn't know what the limit was because it wasn't mentioned on any of the signs nor on the T&Cs ?
    No, a grace period doesn't have to be in the signs, so stop with your first phrase - no grace period. Already told you that clearly, in post #20.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • worn out
    • By worn out 5th Jan 18, 10:40 AM
    • 84 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    worn out
    Yes. Stop there.

    No, a grace period doesn't have to be in the signs, so stop with your first phrase - no grace period. Already told you that clearly, in post #20.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I'm just going through it all in my head, I AM taking note of what you're saying... but surely PPCs cannot say that 'any length of stay is payable' on their T&C signs when they know the BPA insist on grace periods being allowed..
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Jan 18, 10:21 PM
    • 52,911 Posts
    • 66,442 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes they can, but in fact they don't have to say anything about grace periods on the signs. And usually they don't.

    As an aside, please contact WHICH? magazine using the easy link from this thread to tell them briefly of your plight. The more people who contact WHICH, the more likely they are to take up this unregulated scam industry as their next cause:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5765579
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 05-01-2018 at 11:31 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • worn out
    • By worn out 12th Jan 18, 10:22 AM
    • 84 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    worn out
    I note there's a private member's bill going through parliament at the moment -

    https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/parkingcodeofpractice.html.

    Do we think this will work to parkers advantage, or not...
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