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  • FIRST POST
    • Bucko78
    • By Bucko78 19th Oct 17, 8:30 PM
    • 35Posts
    • 9Thanks
    Bucko78
    Court papers SIP/ Gladstone “failure to display”
    • #1
    • 19th Oct 17, 8:30 PM
    Court papers SIP/ Gladstone “failure to display” 19th Oct 17 at 8:30 PM
    Hello all,

    Just wondering if I could ask for some advice?

    Some time back we got a Pcn of SIP, for failure to display. Had the usual letters escalating to action.

    The ticket was purchased and displayed on the plastic cowling on the steering column, however these corrupted ticket inspectors have taken protracted angled photos to substantiate the claim there was no ticket there.

    We have photos which clearly show the ticket from the drivers door being completely visible, and legible.

    We have received the notice ‘Claim form’ today for court.. I’m so angry that I want to go all the way with this.. however just wanted to know if you lose do you automatically get a CCJ?

    What would you do now to formulate a defence, would you go solicitor or do it yourself.

    If anyone can offer further guidance I’d be extremely grateful..


    Thanks
Page 4
    • Bucko78
    • By Bucko78 4th Dec 17, 9:03 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Bucko78
    If they have contacted the dvla and obtained my details in the finding that I have indeed displayed my ticket then they could be seen to have breached my data protection.
    I said all along that the ticket was displayed and they’ve challenged me to prove likewise.

    I take it I cannot add these now..?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Dec 17, 9:15 PM
    • 15,910 Posts
    • 24,670 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    They were always able to obtain the registered keeper’s details under the ‘reasonable cause’ agreement with the DVLA. We don’t need to go there as there has been monumental debate, and no matter what you think - they’re in their right. If you’re going to argue it any further, please do so with your MP - we have nothing more to add here.

    Once it has been made clear and with proof to the PPC that they have no case (or cause) to continue to utilise the personal details to pursue the motorist, that’s when the possibility of a DPA breach could come in. But none of this stuff should be entered into lightly without a thorough understanding of the relevant laws and how they might play out in a court.

    Should a counterclaim be pursued ‘unreasonably’, it exposes the claimant to potential costs beyond the norm for a county court claim - and it’s at the discretion of the judge. Litigation is not without risk - know what you are dealing with before any red mist takes you down an unsuitable road.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 4th Dec 17, 9:27 PM
    • 4,747 Posts
    • 3,090 Thanks
    KeithP
    ...two people in a car travelling to an (unspecified court at the time with reasonable costings)...
    Originally posted by Bucko78
    You've already been advised that the court will be your local court.
    Why two people? There is only one defendant.


    If they have contacted the dvla and obtained my details in the finding that I have indeed displayed my ticket then they could be seen to have breached my data protection.
    Originally posted by Bucko78
    They are entitled to get the registered keeper's details from the DVLA so that they can either ask the RK for the driver's identity or to transfer liability to the keeper.
    .
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 4th Dec 17, 10:01 PM
    • 1,197 Posts
    • 2,373 Thanks
    Lamilad
    I said all along that the ticket was displayed and they’ve challenged me to prove likewise.
    The burden of proof is theirs. You assert that a valid ticket was purchased and displayed correctly and it is up to them to prove otherwise.

    Of course, if you can back yourself up with proof then that's even better
    • Bucko78
    • By Bucko78 4th Dec 17, 10:02 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Bucko78
    Looking from the outside in; it’s different than what you see dealing with this day in day out.
    I’ve never done this before so I’m in an alien environment..reading what was put in front of me, I’ve never seen anything which has suggested I’m going local..


    We got a form saying Northampton... that’s where we perceived it would be..
    We then got court papers.. again no mention of the court..

    It was only when we filed the directions questionaire that it was identified that it would be dealt with by a local court near me.. that was after counting up fuel/parking etc

    Two people because I’m the more outspoken one.. my partner is not that confident with things like this..I would be going as support to her.
    If the claimant is so sure of his defence, and honourably right in this case, then then they would display confidence in taking on: all the risk of these court cost costs falling down upon them should they be wrong.

    I’ve put the additional £25 in to assert myself and challenge these villains..I uphold that thought that the court will see things for what they truly are..& if I’m found to be wrong I’ll pay the bill.. but I ain’t going down that easy..
    • Redx
    • By Redx 4th Dec 17, 10:09 PM
    • 16,902 Posts
    • 21,013 Thanks
    Redx
    nobody on here expects that you have done it before , if you had you wouldnt need to be asking questions, especially basic ones

    if you studied the MCOL and their website more closely , you would know it is a government office based in Northampton , for online claims , similar to the fact that they have one called the DVLA in Swansea , and a pension centre near gateshead

    the BC in CCBC stands for Business Centre , meaning its a centralised business office and as its from Northampton, that is where it is located and staffed by civil service personnel who have no legal training

    they also have one for manual paper based claims in Salford too (not a court either , especially with Manchester on its doorstep)

    if you had read the BARGEPOLE timeline you would know what happens and when , plus the fact that if the initial claim is allowed by the initial judge that sees it , your local county court is then allocated , until then they would not be aware of which one that is , especially as you would not have specified it (you could have elected for papers only , or a different court for some other reason)

    you seem to be letting the red mist cloud your judgment , so take a chill pill and concentrate on the here and now

    unless you can prove a DPA breach with the ICO, with the help of the dvla , you cannot seriously be looking for a DPA claim

    6 years to try that argument , so chill out and get your ducks in a row
    Last edited by Redx; 04-12-2017 at 10:25 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 4th Dec 17, 10:14 PM
    • 4,747 Posts
    • 3,090 Thanks
    KeithP
    I’ve never seen anything which has suggested I’m going local...
    Originally posted by Bucko78
    Then you need to re-read post #5 of your thread, where Redx told you:
    the court is actually the court nearest to you , not Northampton
    Originally posted by Redx
    .
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Dec 17, 10:15 PM
    • 15,910 Posts
    • 24,670 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Two people because I’m the more outspoken one.. my partner is not that confident with things like this..I would be going as support to her.
    Whose case is this. If it’s your partner’s she has to deal with this.

    If that is the case, in court you just can’t rock up and defend her or speak for her unless (the latter) is agreed by the judge. But you must seek permission on arrival at court.

    You need to research the role of a ‘Lay Representative’. You also need to research the role of a ‘McKenzie Friend’. Both have potential roles to play, but you need to be very clear on the difference between the two, so you have a full grip on things if the judge is to query exactly what role you are proposing to perform - and they have questioned representatives in the past.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Bucko78
    • By Bucko78 4th Dec 17, 10:21 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Bucko78
    Yes sorry, I was aware of that..it’s her case but me driving this..

    I sure when push comes to shove she’ll deal with the appearance..
    I was hoping to be here to assist..
    I’m dealing with the forum side of things as that’s how I think she prefers it.

    I could just do with knowing what happens with the status of the counterclaim.. if it doesn’t stand due to a misunderstanding do or can I ask to be refunded?
    What bearing will it have on the case if anything..?
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 4th Dec 17, 10:31 PM
    • 1,197 Posts
    • 2,373 Thanks
    Lamilad
    I’ve put the additional £25 in to assert myself and challenge these villains
    What does this mean? have you already issued a counter-claim? If so, on what basis?

    I could just do with knowing what happens with the status of the counterclaim.. if it doesn’t stand due to a misunderstanding do or can I ask to be refunded?
    Are you joking? Of course you won't get a refund. This is not a game it is Her Majesty's Court Service - you do not just issue a claim then say 'sorry, mate, only joking, can I have my money back'!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 4th Dec 17, 10:46 PM
    • 16,902 Posts
    • 21,013 Thanks
    Redx
    have you ever watched Judge Rinder ?

    the legal processes are the same and if you ignore the theatrics etc , you would know that your case is dealt with in a similar fashion (with less people and possibly in a small room)

    when a counter claim is made on that tv programme , I would say that about 95% of them fail, so his words are "Counter Claim dismissed"

    you paid for a ruling , so the judge will hear whatever case you made (which you have not told us) and make a judgment on it , which is either (Counter) Claim upheld or (Counter) Claim dismissed. this hearing and judgment are what you have paid for, with no refunds

    your costs in defending this case are argued with the actual claim itself , and as mentioned above , people like myself and coupon-mad and others have told you this weeks ago, plus we told you to read the BARGEPOLE link too. the costs schedule has been produced by people like LOC123 and mentioned in many threads, plus its linked in the NEWBIES sticky thread too

    you even apologised at making us give you "double bubble" on page one

    so most of this was explained weeks ago, and the bargepole link etc is many months old too (october 2016) and says this

    Note: Gladstones are currently including a 'request for special directions' asking the Court to hear the case on the papers only, without an oral hearing. You should oppose this, and include the following text in D1: “The Defendant opposes the Claimant’s request for special directions, and requests that the case be listed for an oral hearing at the defendant’s home court, pursuant to CPR 26.2A(3)”.

    5. The case file will then be transferred to your local County Court, and you will eventually receive a Notice of Allocation, giving you a date and time for the hearing. It will also specify a deadline for you to submit a Witness Statement, and any other documents you intend to rely on, usually 14 days before the hearing but sometimes earlier than that.
    Last edited by Redx; 04-12-2017 at 10:57 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Bucko78
    • By Bucko78 5th Dec 17, 6:57 AM
    • 35 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Bucko78
    What does this mean? have you already issued a counter-claim? If so, on what basis?

    Yes please see in the defence sent back from the solicitors it’s contained within.

    Are you joking? Of course you won't get a refund. This is not a game it is Her Majesty's Court Service - you do not just issue a claim then say 'sorry, mate, only joking, can I have my money back'!
    Originally posted by Lamilad
    No, if I have made a genuine mistake I terms of making a counterclaim vs costs breakdown then I don’t see that as being unreasonable.
    If I’m not able to counterclaim then the money I’ve paid should be returned..

    I’ve not made an attempt to claim and lost, I’ve made a error in terminology... remember I’m not claiming to be a legal specialist..I’m merely trying to follow what you guys are telling me to do.

    And for the record early on when I was asking for guidance, not even half of you chipped in.. now I’m in a position of being incorrect I seem to have a surplus of circling hyenas wanting to tear a strip of the bone..give me a break will you..
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Dec 17, 7:09 AM
    • 15,910 Posts
    • 24,670 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    not even half of you chipped in.. now I’m in a position of being incorrect I seem to have a surplus of circling hyenas wanting to tear a strip of the bone..give me a break will you..
    With the exception of Lamilad (who’s been away from the forum for a while) who has commented in the past couple of days have made inputs to this thread from the outset - so your comment is inaccurate.

    give me a break will you..
    I’d be careful what you ask for.

    People are really trying to help you. It’s difficult at times to get the wording right for the way people are reading it. Remember we are rattling through dozens of threads every day, not just dealing with yours. Yesterday, as an example, I made 44 separate inputs, some lengthy, to many cases, some complex. It’s not easy getting sensitivities right for everyone, who each have different sensitivity thresholds. One person yesterday, when giving some advice, told me to ‘mind my own business’. Thick skin can help!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 5th Dec 17, 11:00 AM
    • 1,162 Posts
    • 1,191 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    You have a claim and you have costs (expenses) associated with a claim

    For your purposes, the time off work and travel to your LOCAL court for the *defendant* are normal costs. If the D wins, then they get their costs paid anyway by the Claimant the "C") up to £95 for a half day off work- either unpaid or loss of holiday. You also get parking. These are normal costs

    NONE of these go into a counter claim. A counter claim is where you aver that they have done wrong against you OUTSIDE OF the court claim in question. So as you have been told harassment, breach of the DPA once they knew they had no claim, etc. This is NOT where costs (expenses) of the CLAIM are considered, and in fact a counterclaim have its own costs consideration, as again there is a winner and a loser, and loser pays the winner their costs.

    No, you do not get your counterclaim fee back. You paid in order to lodge a counterclaim, the fact it was a crap one is your doing, not the courts. You can try, but expect the judge to either laugh at the idea, or decide youre being unreasonable and award the other side their costs. Likely around £300.

    Youre still being given guidance, you chose not to take it (by ignoring the link to the bargepole posts where every single element of the claim process is explained to you in great detail) and are now complaining. Be careful what you wish for - noone has any obligation to assist you.
    • Bucko78
    • By Bucko78 5th Dec 17, 6:33 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Bucko78
    I’m not entering into a conflict with you guys, gals.. this is hard enough to deal with without creating more enemies.

    If you wish to advise I will be grateful to hear and receive your comments, but please don’t try to make a mockery of me. I’m not on here to hear how I’m not that good at reading and understanding all the information that has been presented to me, whether historically on the forum or in my post.

    You live and breath this stuff.. I engineer and construct buildings..I don’t claim to be a genius where the letter of the law is concerned.

    Please keep things factual and move forward from where I’ve c0cked up..that’s if you feel your still willing and able to help.

    I’ll join the back of the queue now until you feel I’ve paid enough silent treatment..
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