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  • FIRST POST
    • deanos
    • By deanos 18th Oct 17, 4:28 PM
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    deanos
    a little victory
    • #1
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:28 PM
    a little victory 18th Oct 17 at 4:28 PM
    local shop installed anpr cameras on poles to dish tickets out , they didn't get planning permission and they break rules , council has asked them to retro apply for permission , they haven't, enforcement action to follow

    just a small victory, but one all the same
Page 1
    • Castle
    • By Castle 18th Oct 17, 4:30 PM
    • 1,377 Posts
    • 1,818 Thanks
    Castle
    • #2
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:30 PM
    • #2
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:30 PM
    What about advertising consent for the signs?
    • deanos
    • By deanos 18th Oct 17, 4:34 PM
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    deanos
    • #3
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:34 PM
    • #3
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:34 PM
    i didn't know you need it , the poles were too high and too far apart is what they got them on
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 18th Oct 17, 4:36 PM
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    DoaM
    • #4
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:36 PM
    • #4
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:36 PM
    You need planning consent for the poles and cameras ... this can be granted retrospectively.

    You also need advertising consent for signage ... not having it is a criminal offence and consent cannot be granted retrospectively. Therefore any tickets issued prior to consent being granted are unenforceable as you cannot profit from an illegal act.
    Diary of a madman
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    • deanos
    • By deanos 18th Oct 17, 4:37 PM
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    deanos
    • #5
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:37 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:37 PM
    oooh, i will email the council contact now, i presume this covers it ?

    https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/4/adverts_and_signs
    • Castle
    • By Castle 18th Oct 17, 4:38 PM
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    Castle
    • #6
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:38 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:38 PM
    i didn't know you need it , the poles were too high and too far apart is what they got them on
    Originally posted by deanos
    Depending upon the size of the signs, express consent may be required:-
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/783/contents/made

    Failure to do so is a criminal offence (see regulation 30).
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Oct 17, 4:39 PM
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    Umkomaas
    • #7
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:39 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:39 PM
    But a shop in its own right can’t dish out parking tickets on the back of ANPR cameras. There must have been a private parking company involved.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • deanos
    • By deanos 18th Oct 17, 4:41 PM
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    deanos
    • #8
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:41 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:41 PM
    Thanks have sent a reply and mentioned regulation 30 and if it can also be looked into

    Yes they have a contract with a parking company as displayed on the signs
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Oct 17, 4:51 PM
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    Umkomaas
    • #9
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:51 PM
    • #9
    • 18th Oct 17, 4:51 PM
    Yes they have a contract with a parking company as displayed on the signs
    Originally posted by deanos
    Do you know which parking company?

    It’s interesting as to whose responsibility it is to apply for the permission, the shop or the PPC.

    Looks like the council is going for the contract principal (the shop) which is good, because the PPC should have warned them that they needed to get this permission (very few of them do, as it just holds up being able to slap out tickets). Going after the shop is likely to pee them off and that might well cause them to pass on grief to the PPC.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • deanos
    • By deanos 18th Oct 17, 4:58 PM
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    deanos
    im not sure i should mention it on here as i presume they will be on here snooping like many of them do , you can pm me if you wish to know
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Oct 17, 5:06 PM
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    Umkomaas
    Sorry don’t do PMs. There’s nothing to hide, not sure how naming the PPC would make any difference?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 18th Oct 17, 5:59 PM
    • 40,718 Posts
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    Fruitcake
    im not sure i should mention it on here as i presume they will be on here snooping like many of them do , you can pm me if you wish to know
    Originally posted by deanos
    There is no problem with telling us the name of the parking scammers. In any case, their name is in the public domain because they are on the signs.
    It is important for us to know what happens with regard to this sort of thing because it can be brought up in other cases.
    It's always good to be able to say in a complaint or appeal that, this council clobbered that PPC.
    It's a bit like court cases. The result may not be case law, but they may be persuasive to another judge.
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    • deanos
    • By deanos 18th Oct 17, 6:04 PM
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    deanos
    its smart parking
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Oct 17, 6:08 PM
    • 16,346 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    Hopefully the shop gets a caning from the council and they in turn vent their wrath on Smart Parking.

    If you get any feedback on how this progresses, please do keep us updated on this thread. We can capitalise on this.

    Thanks.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • deanos
    • By deanos 18th Oct 17, 6:09 PM
    • 10,776 Posts
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    deanos
    will do, its taken a year to get this far !
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 18th Oct 17, 6:23 PM
    • 8,060 Posts
    • 8,449 Thanks
    pappa golf
    Hopefully the shop gets a caning from the council and they in turn vent their wrath on Smart Parking.

    If you get any feedback on how this progresses, please do keep us updated on this thread. We can capitalise on this.

    Thanks.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas

    I suspect smart are laughing all the way to the bank , they have fulfilled there contact , however its the shop owner than cannot allow them to continue , so the shopkeeper will have to buy his way out

    and another case here where the landowner wont allow them to continue

    http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/loggerheads-mold-car-park-fines-13774891
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Oct 17, 6:34 PM
    • 16,346 Posts
    • 25,434 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I suspect smart are laughing all the way to the bank , they have fulfilled there contact , however its the shop owner than cannot allow them to continue , so the shopkeeper will have to buy his way out

    and another case here where the landowner wont allow them to continue

    http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/loggerheads-mold-car-park-fines-13774891
    Originally posted by pappa golf
    Two very apposite comments made by the public. The f!rst from ‘The Rookie’ (presumably our PePiPoo regular?).
    That's what happens when you jump out the frying pan into the fire!
    Just some basic research would have told him what these companies are like to deal with, not much sympathy for a businessman who exposes his customers like this due to his own negligence. Be sure Smart, having lost the contract, will go all the way with the other customers.
    And
    If a pub owner is having problems on this scale imagine what must be happening to customers of supermarkets and retails parks. These parking cowboys are interested only in one thing...fleecing as many people as they can. This guy only has himself to blame for not doing his homework and getting himself involved with these cowboys but hopefully other small business owners will learn from his mistake.
    The more such cases, the more a prospective PPC employer will think very hard about the potential damage to his/her business!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • deanos
    • By deanos 11th Jan 18, 3:46 PM
    • 10,776 Posts
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    deanos
    i have chased the council and they are not going to do anything

    Hello,



    Thank you for your enquiry.


    I have spoken to the Compliance and Enforcement Team Leader who has confirmed that no enforcement action will be taken at the present time although the Company have been advised that the works require Planning Permission and they should submit a retrospective application. The Council has no powers to compel them to submit an application, enforcement action can only be taken if it can be demonstrated that significant harm is being caused as a result of the unauthorised works.



    Best wishes,


    Compliance and Enforcement Administrator

    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 11th Jan 18, 3:59 PM
    • 7,642 Posts
    • 6,724 Thanks
    The Deep
    Councils do not have the money, they need it to employ a full quota of transgender Diversity Co-ordinators.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 11th Jan 18, 5:10 PM
    • 40,718 Posts
    • 81,304 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    i have chased the council and they are not going to do anything
    Originally posted by deanos
    As already mentioned, retrospective applications can be made for planning permission, but NOT for advertising consent. The scammers shouldn't be allowed to backdate the application to decriminalise a criminal offence.

    I wonder if it would be illegal to remove signs installed illegally. I'm sure it wouldn't be illegal to cover them up.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
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