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    • blackmath
    • By blackmath 16th Oct 17, 8:36 PM
    • 29Posts
    • 12Thanks
    blackmath
    CEL Claim October 17
    • #1
    • 16th Oct 17, 8:36 PM
    CEL Claim October 17 16th Oct 17 at 8:36 PM
    Hi,

    Just received a claim and am putting together a response now. Will respond to the notice tomorrow. Will update the thread when done. Also need to study the new protocol.

    I have a question around the court which doesn't appear to be covered anywhere. Can I get the claim moved to a county court nearer to me?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blackmath; 16-10-2017 at 8:38 PM.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 16th Oct 17, 8:38 PM
    • 16,938 Posts
    • 21,077 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 16th Oct 17, 8:38 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Oct 17, 8:38 PM
    read the BARGEPOLE post linked in post #2 of the NEWBIES thread

    that post #2 covers all you need to know about court claims etc

    read recent CEL defences to draft your own

    AOS is done on line , no response is necessary yet

    and the initial judge will have it sent to your local court if it goes further

    the Northampton CCBC is not a court , its a government clearing centre
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • blackmath
    • By blackmath 16th Oct 17, 8:39 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    blackmath
    • #3
    • 16th Oct 17, 8:39 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Oct 17, 8:39 PM
    Ah okay, that makes more sense. Thanks. Will update the thread later this week.
    • blackmath
    • By blackmath 25th Oct 17, 11:20 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    blackmath
    • #4
    • 25th Oct 17, 11:20 PM
    • #4
    • 25th Oct 17, 11:20 PM
    Hi.I am currently drafting my defence but I still haven't received detailed particulars as promised in the claim form.

    Would you press them for this now or use it as a stick to beat them with? I'm guessing a judge would want to see that I at least followed it up.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 25th Oct 17, 11:21 PM
    • 51,886 Posts
    • 65,532 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 25th Oct 17, 11:21 PM
    • #5
    • 25th Oct 17, 11:21 PM
    Same as all the other threads about CEL, please read them, or search the forum for:

    Denton

    or

    Unless order

    Only because we are answering the same question on EVERY CEL thread at the moment!! Just read a few...
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • blackmath
    • By blackmath 11th Nov 17, 8:41 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    blackmath
    • #6
    • 11th Nov 17, 8:41 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Nov 17, 8:41 PM
    I'm sending my defence statement off tomorrow morning. It seems I haven't remembered my MCO number so can't reset the password for now.

    I'm just going to post it. Am I correct in that I am sending the N9B form plus defence attached, clearly stating in the defence box that they should refer to attached document?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blackmath; 11-11-2017 at 8:51 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 11th Nov 17, 9:01 PM
    • 4,800 Posts
    • 3,166 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #7
    • 11th Nov 17, 9:01 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Nov 17, 9:01 PM
    You don't need your MCOL login.
    You will have read in Bargepole's walkthrough that submitting your defence via MCOL destroys all formatting and makes it difficult for the judge to read - not something you want.

    Consider emailing your defence to: ccbcaq@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk
    .
    • blackmath
    • By blackmath 11th Nov 17, 9:18 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    blackmath
    • #8
    • 11th Nov 17, 9:18 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Nov 17, 9:18 PM
    Thanks. Saves me the worry of wondering if it got lost.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 11th Nov 17, 9:27 PM
    • 4,800 Posts
    • 3,166 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #9
    • 11th Nov 17, 9:27 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Nov 17, 9:27 PM
    It also gives you a couple of extra days to get it right - no idea if you need that or not.

    Why not post your defence here to see if others can offer improvements?

    When you do send it, don't forget that it needs a real signature.
    So the process is:
    1) print it.
    2) sign and date it.
    3) scan it back in and save as a pdf.
    4) send as an email attachment - also copy to yourself to ensure it goes successfully.
    Put the Claim Number in the email subject line.

    Does your defence mention the late serving of the Particulars of Claim?
    Have you written to the court to complain about the late serving of the PoC?
    .
    • blackmath
    • By blackmath 11th Nov 17, 9:33 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    blackmath
    I put the following preamble in. I was going to write to the court, but this might be a better way.

    I would firstly like to bring to attention that the Particulars of Claim were posted on the 1st of November 2017 (as demonstrated by the post mark on the envelope) and not as promised within 14 days of the Issue Date of the Claim Form. This was finally received by me on the 2nd of November. The claimant has concealed this by dating the letter on the 11th of October but posting 21 days afterwards. The Civil Procedure Rules are quite clear - under Rule 3.8 the court should apply the sanctions unless the Claimant has applied for relief under 3.9.

    I cannot see any reason for the Claimant having backdated its further Particulars of Claim, other than to try to gain an advantage by making it appear that I have filed my defence late, or by confusing me into having to rush to file my defence prematurely. This is a serious matter and I ask that this is formally noted on the court file. A serial commercial claimant should be fully versed in the Civil Procedure Rules and it is with great effort that I am having to understand the time limits and process which they are possibly deliberately making more difficult to weaken my defence.

    I serve my defence without prejudice due to the fact the Particulars of Claim were served so late hence the claimant being out of time.
    The rest of it is pretty standard with a few case specific applications applied. Largely around me surveying the site and detailing all the problems around signage, unclear land boundaries etc.
    Last edited by blackmath; 11-11-2017 at 9:42 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 11th Nov 17, 9:47 PM
    • 4,800 Posts
    • 3,166 Thanks
    KeithP
    You have (at least) fourteen days from receiving the Particulars of Claim before your defence is due.

    As suggested in post #5, you need to look at other CEL defence threads.
    You will see that others have sent letters to the court and to CEL complaining about the late service.
    This thread may help with that:
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=73397773

    You will also see that solicitors have suggested wording to include in defence statements highlighting this dubious practice.
    .
    • blackmath
    • By blackmath 11th Nov 17, 9:54 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    blackmath
    It doesn't really make much difference do my deadline. I don't really need the extra few days as I won't have time during weekdays anyway. I will send in a complaint afterwards though.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 11th Nov 17, 10:03 PM
    • 4,800 Posts
    • 3,166 Thanks
    KeithP
    It doesn't really make much difference do my deadline. I don't really need the extra few days as I won't have time during weekdays anyway. I will send in a complaint afterwards though.
    Originally posted by blackmath
    But the complaint letters are intended to help your case.

    It is all ammunition to help the court conclude that the claimant is making a mockery of the system and needs to be considered with the case in question.

    Afterwards will be too late for your case.

    Your choice though.
    .
    • blackmath
    • By blackmath 11th Nov 17, 10:07 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    blackmath
    But the complaint letters are intended to help your case.

    It is all ammunition to help the court conclude that the claimant is making a mockery of the system and needs to be considered with the case in question.

    Afterwards will be too late for your case.

    Your choice though.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    I know what you are saying but I focused on getting the defence done. I also read elsewhere that at least one was ignored and another person has had no response. Waste of paper sending one to CEL.

    I was under the impression if this ever reached court I could expand on this anyway as long as it is in my defence statement.

    I'll put in a complaint later this week (yes won't necessarily result in my case being thrown out) but might help future ones.
    • poreilly
    • By poreilly 13th Nov 17, 10:18 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    poreilly
    Thankyou every much all sent off<
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Nov 17, 10:23 PM
    • 4,800 Posts
    • 3,166 Thanks
    KeithP
    Thankyou every much all sent off<
    Originally posted by poreilly
    Poreilly, why have you posted here instead of on your own thread?
    .
    • blackmath
    • By blackmath 5th Dec 17, 7:59 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    blackmath
    DQ received and doing what the form says and the many examples posted here. Send a copy to CCBC and CEL.

    Anything else I should do to prepare? My understanding is that there is a long wait from now till any dates are set? Also CEL haven't yet paid any hearing fee, that will be the next step which they may or may not do?
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 6th Dec 17, 6:38 AM
    • 1,819 Posts
    • 3,215 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Also CEL haven't yet paid any hearing fee,
    They haven't paid the hearing fee as no hearing has been set yet. That is what the DQ is for.

    Personally I'd suggest a SAR to get all the pics and paperwork and to contact the local council about who pay the Non Domestic Rates. This will tell you who the occupier of the site is and if it is different from any contract they produce.
    Life's for living, get on with it rather than worrying about these. If they hassle, counter claim.

    Send them that costs schedule though, 24 hours before the hearing, and file it with the court. Take with you evidence that you have sent the costs schedule to them and when.
    LoC
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